-
Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!
Noobfactory new PAM364 P P9000 re-view - [QC Pics allowed]
- Thread starter MarkTS
- Start date
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
Yes, OK
But even with a cup, there will be an ugly rim contour in the hand like in ZFac CPs
Besides, with the cup CP will be really big
That would need to be solved
ALE
Start order now. 408USD exclude shipping. will able to delivery after 7-10 days( 6th Sep).
http://www.tswatchltd.com/product.php?id_product=15738
credit card and WU payment is welcome.
http://www.tswatchltd.com/product.php?id_product=15738
credit card and WU payment is welcome.
You know this for a fact? I'd rather point things out and be told I am mistaken or that it will be corrected than hope that the makers will catch it and correct before release. The controversy would be if Noob just went ahead and released the watch as it is. Sure, it's missing a cap, no big deal. So you would accept the TD sending you the cap a week later or even better, send the watch back to get the CP cap fixed?
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
PAM 364 P-series Noob promoted by TSWatches
From the pics from TSWatches and with some gen pics I have make a MINI-REVIEW and a provisional evaluation of this watch, waiting for more info from members, dealers, and owners
MINI-REVIEW PAM 364 P-series Noob
DIAL
Layout- Dial layout is very accurate almost perfect
Markers- markers either sticks or dots are nicely finished and accurate, just a bit fatter than gen but almost impossible to see it.
Inscriptions- Inscriptions are accurate without visible problems
Date – Date window is nicely finished and well placed. Date fonts seem more accurate than in other decorated movements (we can only see 2 but it is very good). The TSW sample on catalogue has the date a bit off the center but most likely is a sample matter
Colours – Lume, dial surface and inscriptions have accurate colour and you can see it in the comparison pic from TSW
Lume- Colour is accurate and application is carefully and nicely made. I cannot say about power and lasting because I have no info or pics
HANDS and CP
HANds- All hands (hours, minutes, seconds) are accurate in shape lume and lume colour
Cannon Pinion- As already commented this is a polemic matter, since the CP of this watch is really weird.
It has a nice flat and polished center part, then there is a deeply recessed contour and the minute hand features a rim raised contour. The final result is really weird mainly in macro pics. I would like to see the real appearance at real size.
I really don’t understand this CP, because the movement (as we will se below) is based in a ZFac decoration and last ZFac CPs have the rim contour of the minute hand but have no recessed contour around the central part.
Anyway this is an issue to be solved by Noob as soon as possible
CRYSTAL
It is a good sapphire thick crystal nicely raised and bevelled like gen. AR is also good
CG and CROWN
Overal CG is accurate and very well finished
CG overall shape is very accurate and has some chamfered corners, smaller than gen but they exist. As usually there are gaps between the CG and the hollow on the midcase to shelter the CG
Lever- Is accurate in shape and roller support and tip is shaped like gen, just the rep lever edges are sharper. The fitting with the CG is very good.
CG Pin- it is nice, flat and well polished
REG. T.M. inscriptions- Inscriptions are accurate in placement and fonts. Maybe they are a little less deep than gen ones. But they are very good in general
Crown and crown tube- They are accurate and well finished
BEZEL
Bezel overall shape and finish are very gen like and material is solid Titanium like gen
Knurling- The knurling of the bezel is very well machined and finished having nice polished surfaces like gen. This is an important feature of this watch and Noob has made a good job on it.
Markers- Stick and dots are very well made and accurate, nicely finished like gen. Dots black numerals are also accurate and well defined
Minute markers from 12 to 3- This part is a characteristic of this watch, because it is the first time that Officine PANERAI uses this type of minute markers.
The shape and size are accurate but the rep is not as well finished as gen and the markers contours are not as sharp and well defined. But at the real size this is few noticeable and we can say this part is good enough
Pearl- As we can see from the pics there are some differences between rep and gen pearl.
Mysterio says that maybe the gen triangle supporting the pearl looks equilateral whereas in rep it seems isosceles (the bottom of the triangle being shorter than the two sides). I'm honestly though the same form the beginning.
But I have studied both triangles by a Photoshop arrangement and I can say that both triangles seem equilateral and have the same dimension, but gen triangle has the sides a bit curved outwards and the upper surface is not flat but a little embossed with a shape falling to the sides and to the pearl contour.
Gen pearl is a bit recessed and this effect is enhanced due to the embossed shape of the triangle.
Rep triangle sides are completely straight, upper surface is flat and pearl is placed flush with this surface. Besides for some reason (maybe due to the straight sides) the rep pearl is placed a bit displaced to the upper side. All things together give to rep triangle the appearance of being isosceles, but it really is equilateral.
The finish and appearance are good and above mentioned differences are not noticeable without a carefully side by side comparison
Working- Obviously I have no info about the working, but being a watch from Noob and bearing in mind its experience and the nice working of PAM 243 bezel, we could expect a good working of the bezel of this watch. . But this subject remains pending future confirmations from next owners
CASE
Accuracy & Finish- As usually in Noob reps the shape and the finish of the case are really good with sharp edges and well defined contours. The material obviously is solid Titanium like gen. Fitting with CG is good leaving aside some gaps, above mentioned, in the sides. Fitting with bezel and caseback are very good as usually in Noob
CASEBACK
Caseback is very well built and is made of solid Titanium nicely finished with strong gen like appearance. This caseback is a good Noob job as usually.
Layout – The caseback layout is almost perfect with very little differences with gen, completely impossible to be detected without enlargement and Photoshop comparison or similar.
Engravings- Are very nice and deep like gen. Fonts are accurate enough to make almost impossible telling the rep.
MOVEMENT
The movement is a decorated A7750 like P.3000. It is clear that the movement is the same as used for ZFac with very little modifications and using like in ZFac PAM 382 V1 “real” jewels instead of painted ones. Fonts of CAL P.3000 are inaccurate in the same way as ZFac movements. The decoration of balancecock is the same as Zfac with very little modifications (change of screw position and a bigger hole to see the Incabloc system).
As already commented with PAM 389, since the caseback is closed, using a decorated movement with all inherent problems and costs seems unnecessary. A decorated movement is well received but maybe people would prefer low prices and more reliability.
Anyway good attempt from Noob and this movement increases accuracy when you open the watch.
CONCLUSIONS
Noob gets with this PAM 364 a very nice watch and a fantastic rep.
From my taste and IMHO, this PAM 364 makes unnecessary a good replica o PAM 305. Because it is relatively similar but have some aesthetic improvements.
PAM 364 Bezel is more like old historical PAM Submersibles like Egiziano and also similar to PAM 024-025-199-106-170-239-087, it is in the same line of PAM 187-194 and it is completely inspired on PAM 183 Depth Gauge. In my opinion this bezel catchs better the Pam Submersible sprit and seems nicer.
It is a pity the weird Cannon Pinion because, with a correct CP, this watch could be at the same level of Noob PAM 243. Or even better because we should bear in mind that PAM 243 has a narrower polished external upper edge on the bezel, really noticeable if you knows this issue even more than the small detail of a wrong CP.
As far as I can see, even with the flaws above commented, this Noob PAM 364 surpasses PAM 389 ZFac and, of course, PAM 382 either KW or ZFac (whatever is the version). Noob PAM 364 is a new Super Rep to be placed just after the Noob PAM 243 V2. With a correct CP and better CG chamfered corners it would be the best rep of PAM Submersible available so far.
PRICE- 408USD- A rep made of Brushed Titanium with a complicate bezel with polished knurling, thick expensive crystal and complicated dial cannot be cheap. If we are looking for quality we will need to pay it. I think the starting price is correct. See fro comparison the current prices of APs and HBBs of good quality.
Thanks to Mark of TSWatches to promote this new rep of PAM 364 and congrats to Noob for the nice results.
ALE
From the pics from TSWatches and with some gen pics I have make a MINI-REVIEW and a provisional evaluation of this watch, waiting for more info from members, dealers, and owners
MINI-REVIEW PAM 364 P-series Noob
DIAL
Layout- Dial layout is very accurate almost perfect
Markers- markers either sticks or dots are nicely finished and accurate, just a bit fatter than gen but almost impossible to see it.
Inscriptions- Inscriptions are accurate without visible problems
Date – Date window is nicely finished and well placed. Date fonts seem more accurate than in other decorated movements (we can only see 2 but it is very good). The TSW sample on catalogue has the date a bit off the center but most likely is a sample matter
Colours – Lume, dial surface and inscriptions have accurate colour and you can see it in the comparison pic from TSW
Lume- Colour is accurate and application is carefully and nicely made. I cannot say about power and lasting because I have no info or pics
HANDS and CP
HANds- All hands (hours, minutes, seconds) are accurate in shape lume and lume colour
Cannon Pinion- As already commented this is a polemic matter, since the CP of this watch is really weird.
It has a nice flat and polished center part, then there is a deeply recessed contour and the minute hand features a rim raised contour. The final result is really weird mainly in macro pics. I would like to see the real appearance at real size.
I really don’t understand this CP, because the movement (as we will se below) is based in a ZFac decoration and last ZFac CPs have the rim contour of the minute hand but have no recessed contour around the central part.
Anyway this is an issue to be solved by Noob as soon as possible
CRYSTAL
It is a good sapphire thick crystal nicely raised and bevelled like gen. AR is also good
CG and CROWN
Overal CG is accurate and very well finished
CG overall shape is very accurate and has some chamfered corners, smaller than gen but they exist. As usually there are gaps between the CG and the hollow on the midcase to shelter the CG
Lever- Is accurate in shape and roller support and tip is shaped like gen, just the rep lever edges are sharper. The fitting with the CG is very good.
CG Pin- it is nice, flat and well polished
REG. T.M. inscriptions- Inscriptions are accurate in placement and fonts. Maybe they are a little less deep than gen ones. But they are very good in general
Crown and crown tube- They are accurate and well finished
BEZEL
Bezel overall shape and finish are very gen like and material is solid Titanium like gen
Knurling- The knurling of the bezel is very well machined and finished having nice polished surfaces like gen. This is an important feature of this watch and Noob has made a good job on it.
Markers- Stick and dots are very well made and accurate, nicely finished like gen. Dots black numerals are also accurate and well defined
Minute markers from 12 to 3- This part is a characteristic of this watch, because it is the first time that Officine PANERAI uses this type of minute markers.
The shape and size are accurate but the rep is not as well finished as gen and the markers contours are not as sharp and well defined. But at the real size this is few noticeable and we can say this part is good enough
Pearl- As we can see from the pics there are some differences between rep and gen pearl.
Mysterio says that maybe the gen triangle supporting the pearl looks equilateral whereas in rep it seems isosceles (the bottom of the triangle being shorter than the two sides). I'm honestly though the same form the beginning.
But I have studied both triangles by a Photoshop arrangement and I can say that both triangles seem equilateral and have the same dimension, but gen triangle has the sides a bit curved outwards and the upper surface is not flat but a little embossed with a shape falling to the sides and to the pearl contour.
Gen pearl is a bit recessed and this effect is enhanced due to the embossed shape of the triangle.
Rep triangle sides are completely straight, upper surface is flat and pearl is placed flush with this surface. Besides for some reason (maybe due to the straight sides) the rep pearl is placed a bit displaced to the upper side. All things together give to rep triangle the appearance of being isosceles, but it really is equilateral.
The finish and appearance are good and above mentioned differences are not noticeable without a carefully side by side comparison
Working- Obviously I have no info about the working, but being a watch from Noob and bearing in mind its experience and the nice working of PAM 243 bezel, we could expect a good working of the bezel of this watch. . But this subject remains pending future confirmations from next owners
CASE
Accuracy & Finish- As usually in Noob reps the shape and the finish of the case are really good with sharp edges and well defined contours. The material obviously is solid Titanium like gen. Fitting with CG is good leaving aside some gaps, above mentioned, in the sides. Fitting with bezel and caseback are very good as usually in Noob
CASEBACK
Caseback is very well built and is made of solid Titanium nicely finished with strong gen like appearance. This caseback is a good Noob job as usually.
Layout – The caseback layout is almost perfect with very little differences with gen, completely impossible to be detected without enlargement and Photoshop comparison or similar.
Engravings- Are very nice and deep like gen. Fonts are accurate enough to make almost impossible telling the rep.
MOVEMENT
The movement is a decorated A7750 like P.3000. It is clear that the movement is the same as used for ZFac with very little modifications and using like in ZFac PAM 382 V1 “real” jewels instead of painted ones. Fonts of CAL P.3000 are inaccurate in the same way as ZFac movements. The decoration of balancecock is the same as Zfac with very little modifications (change of screw position and a bigger hole to see the Incabloc system).
As already commented with PAM 389, since the caseback is closed, using a decorated movement with all inherent problems and costs seems unnecessary. A decorated movement is well received but maybe people would prefer low prices and more reliability.
Anyway good attempt from Noob and this movement increases accuracy when you open the watch.
CONCLUSIONS
Noob gets with this PAM 364 a very nice watch and a fantastic rep.
From my taste and IMHO, this PAM 364 makes unnecessary a good replica o PAM 305. Because it is relatively similar but have some aesthetic improvements.
PAM 364 Bezel is more like old historical PAM Submersibles like Egiziano and also similar to PAM 024-025-199-106-170-239-087, it is in the same line of PAM 187-194 and it is completely inspired on PAM 183 Depth Gauge. In my opinion this bezel catchs better the Pam Submersible sprit and seems nicer.
It is a pity the weird Cannon Pinion because, with a correct CP, this watch could be at the same level of Noob PAM 243. Or even better because we should bear in mind that PAM 243 has a narrower polished external upper edge on the bezel, really noticeable if you knows this issue even more than the small detail of a wrong CP.
As far as I can see, even with the flaws above commented, this Noob PAM 364 surpasses PAM 389 ZFac and, of course, PAM 382 either KW or ZFac (whatever is the version). Noob PAM 364 is a new Super Rep to be placed just after the Noob PAM 243 V2. With a correct CP and better CG chamfered corners it would be the best rep of PAM Submersible available so far.
PRICE- 408USD- A rep made of Brushed Titanium with a complicate bezel with polished knurling, thick expensive crystal and complicated dial cannot be cheap. If we are looking for quality we will need to pay it. I think the starting price is correct. See fro comparison the current prices of APs and HBBs of good quality.
Thanks to Mark of TSWatches to promote this new rep of PAM 364 and congrats to Noob for the nice results.
ALE
FOR wholesale order pam364 pls contact us. we have best price which another dealer can't give. because this watch made by us. so we have good price. :thumbsup:
Looking forward to seeing actual shipping date. Should be an interesting watch.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Thanks ALE for the short review, it's hard to find flaws in this rep apart the small stuff you mentioned.
The CP looks weird in macros, but we really need to see it in real life, and maybe some pics from different angles would help to understand its real shape and to see if it's fixable/moddable (if someone needs so).
Another thing I noticed is that in some pics the rep triangle seem to draw a shade on the bezel, like it had different shape of the sides, or maybe it's just a little thicker. But, again these are minuscule flaws that are almost unnoticeable without spending a few hours on a loupe or a macro pic.
And, as I said before, it's nice to see Noob making PAM reps again, latest releases from KW and ZF showed either some easily avoidable flaws (think about the wrong hands in first batch of KW 560 series or wrong lume colour in KW 532 to mention two of my latest acquisitions). A bit more competition is needed. And NOT by repping the same models
The CP looks weird in macros, but we really need to see it in real life, and maybe some pics from different angles would help to understand its real shape and to see if it's fixable/moddable (if someone needs so
).Another thing I noticed is that in some pics the rep triangle seem to draw a shade on the bezel, like it had different shape of the sides, or maybe it's just a little thicker. But, again these are minuscule flaws that are almost unnoticeable without spending a few hours on a loupe or a macro pic.
And, as I said before, it's nice to see Noob making PAM reps again, latest releases from KW and ZF showed either some easily avoidable flaws (think about the wrong hands in first batch of KW 560 series or wrong lume colour in KW 532 to mention two of my latest acquisitions). A bit more competition is needed. And NOT by repping the same models
The watch is really very well made as i have the gen and i can say its pretty good for a first version
- 18/1/11
- 19,846
- 423
- 83
How do you see the accuracy of pearl and pearl's base ?
How about the accuracy of the bezel knurling ?
CG chanfered corners?
Depth of CG engravings?
Some opinions about Lume colour?
Cannon Pinion?
ALE
Mid-Autumn Festival is ongoing so that's probably why the release of the watch is the 10th (or after the 10th as Mark stated).