New to the RM Replica world- some hints appreciated

[Burbizia]

Dear all,

I have been in the rep world for 3 years now and love it.
I have mostly Rolexes (3 Daytonas (1 Franken, 1 modded, 1 OoTB), 1 GMT (Super Franken), 2 AP Ro (1 Franken, 1 modded) and 3 PP (5712, 5167 and 5726 all OoTB)

Bought many more, sold some, kept ones I like.
I usually like to do my own research, read threads and find out flaws (as these are subjective, some people may get bored by specific flaws that are irrelevant to others).

Right now I would like to add a RM to my collection of replicas, but theis brand is way more complex to study compared to Rolex, AP and PP.
for the above brands there are sticky threads and but also is easier to find information about genuine version.

RM is a different kind of animal. It is quite hard (at least for me) to understand what is the "entry level" one (we can say the "Submariner" for Rolex, I mean, the most iconic and therefore replicated model).
Maybe for RM there is nothing that can be compared, but would like to have input from this great community nonetheless.

If you should fill the following chart about model:

Rolex = Submariner (date) = VSF
Rolex = Daytona (panda) = Clean Factory and The Best Factory
AP = 15202 = ZF
AP = 15500 = ZF
PP = 5711 = 3KF
RM = ??? = ???
RM = ??? = ????

I would like to found a iconic model, possibly only date (or date + tourbilion) as I don't like Chrono.
I would also like to investigate the best factory for this / these model.

I did my best but I read many mixed reviews.
For example I took notes about a model but then read it had a Seiko movment with second hand moving not smoothly.
I also read that, due to skeleton dial, a Myota movement is quite visible...
for the Rolex and PP, factories invested in clone movement, due to high demand.

It something like this thinkable for RM?

Not wanted to be spoon fed, I just ask you to adress to specific topics or even to external forum (of genuine ones) to try to educate myself in a more focused way.

Thanks in advance for any support.

 

[jkrw247]

The best factory for AP 15202 has got to be XF

 

[RedMouthguard]

For RM sonic & bbr for movement visuals. Also if your wrist size is ~17cm. Straps fit best from these factories.

 

[Burbizia]

For RM sonic & bbr for movement visuals. Also if your wrist size is ~17cm. Straps fit best from these factories.

thanks Alex.

I'm checkin them on Puretime RMUL2 seems the name of the clone movement!
So a clone movement exists! amazin to know!

Thanks so much!

 

[phone]

thanks Alex.

I'm checkin them on Puretime RMUL2 seems the name of the clone movement!
So a clone movement exists! amazin to know!

Thanks so much!

Bare in mind, its not really a perfect clone movement as its modified from another movement, but its as good as it gets right now

 

[Swiss_goupil]

Got a BBR v2 RM055 and a JBL RM001

Still think the 001 is absolutely amazing for $650-700

One was in the m2m thread few days ago, if available I would jump in that

 

[eBoy]

Got a BBR v2 RM055 and a JBL RM001

Still think the 001 is absolutely amazing for $650-700

One was in the m2m thread few days ago, if available I would jump in that

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about RM gens or RM reps, I always wonder how good a $700 copy of a brand that operates in the $60k - $1.4M range (or so) can possibly be in terms of accuracy and material quality etc.?

My guess is: good enough to make a multiple Ks gen price tag look silly.

 

[QueTip]

As someone who knows absolutely nothing about RM gens or RM reps, I always wonder how good a $700 copy of a brand that operates in the $60k - $1.4M range (or so) can possibly be in terms of accuracy and material quality etc.?

Very far off compared to the likes of other brands like Rolex, AP or Patek.

 

[eBoy]

Very far off compared to the likes of other brands like Rolex, AP or Patek.

That's what I figured. But how "realistic" are the 300k, 400k, 500k etc. retail price tags by RM? I always struggle to see the legitimacy, although I realize that excotic materials and tourbillons etc. have their dear price. But I have a hunch that RM pushes the rule that retail prices have to be at least 4 to 5 fold the production costs for a product to be profitable by a lot. Jacob & Co. is another one of those brands....

But I'm always open to being corrected!

 

[Burbizia]

Guys, just finished reading the 39 pages topic on 055 by BBR.

My opinion is that the watch looks more than fine, but i read way too many issues with movement stopping...
Glad they corrected the terrible red jevel on V2, but still puzzled by movement issues (also second hands stuttering on most of them).
I'll dive into the ZF, I know it is not a modded movement, but hopefully movement is a bit more solid.

thanks for the input! keep em coming

 

[dogwood]

The RM027 tourbillon by EURF (or the newer version by YSF) are good. While both are obviously not gen RMs to anybody who knows what they’re looking for. They are excellent replicas with fully customized versions of the seagull hand wound tourbillon movement.

 

[carter1]

I own a gen Rolex GMT and a BBRV2 RM055. I have a background and mix in affluent enough circles that it wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility that I might own an gen RM (ie I'm not stepping out of a busted up 1999 Honda Civic with a rep $400k watch).

Heres the thing - I get comments about my GMT all the time, despite it not being that unusual a watch. Comparatively no one has ever commented on my RM.

No one recognizes it. No one knows what it is. I think unless you spend time in UAE (lots there) or watch Formula 1 you would never stumble over RMs.

The point is, right now at least, your rep RM doesn't have to be that perfect because no one knows what a real gen looks like - and even if they have seen it on TV no one has seen one up close.

I don't own a rep Rolex but you have to be very careful which factory you buy because the tells are subtle but enough people can spot them.

It's not the case with RM. I like my BBRv2, my first was sent back but the replacement is awesome.

Good luck and wear your watches in good health my friends.

 

[eBoy]

Honestly, I wouldn't wear one (not even a rep, the crooks won't know the difference) unless I can have a security detail along with it.

I've heard of some discouraging incidents involving RMs last year alone, like that F1 driver who got robbed for his RM after a football match... Or the French crypto kid who go brutalized for his RM in front of a hotel lobby in NYC and spent weeks in the hospital and rehabilitation clinic afterwards...

A RM does receive attention. Unfortunately from the wrong folks, it seems.

 

[eBoy]

Lando Norris 'mugged for £40,000 watch' after Euro 2020 final

Gareth Southgate's side lost on penalties to the Azzurri at Wembley, with Formula One star Norris in attendance, And as reported by the Sun, the McLaren driver was mugged after the game.

www.dailymail.co.uk

NYC tourist shot over six-figure watch is crypto expert and ‘lifestyle guru’

The 33-year-old man shot multiple times in the legs and groin in an attempted robbery of his six-figure Richard Mille watch is a French-born cryptocurrency expert who flaunted his timepieces on soc…

nypost.com

 

[eBoy]

There's more when you google "Richard Mille robberies"...

F1's Charles Leclerc Reportedly Robbed of $320K Richard Mille Watch in Italy

Leclerc, who rides for Scuderia Ferrari, is currently No. 1 in the driver standingf

bleacherreport.com

Yes, crooks will rob you for a 10k Rollie, 1k Hamilton or $30 Casio too.

But when the watch is worth a whoopin' £320k or more, these asswipes want to hit the jackpot and suddenly there are stake out teams, spy intel & photos, sophisticated drones, heist plans, high-powered guns and getaway cars & drivers involved. I don't need that kind of attention.

 

[QueTip]

That's what I figured. But how "realistic" are the 300k, 400k, 500k etc. retail price tags by RM? I always struggle to see the legitimacy, although I realize that excotic materials and tourbillons etc. have their dear price. But I have a hunch that RM pushes the rule that retail prices have to be at least 4 to 5 fold the production costs for a product to be profitable by a lot. Jacob & Co. is another one of those brands....

But I'm always open to being corrected!

The retail prices for the usual models like 35, 55 etc. aren’t that high. For example the white ceramic 55 or 35 are / were around 100-120k retail from the boutique. The chance of being able to buy one at retail? Pretty low.
It’s the market ‘demand’ (there is demand to all the nay-sayers saying it’s a fully artificially inflated market (only partly true)) that has pushed the prices of these so high up. Are they worth the market price? Maybe not imho but if money is no issue and the price is somewhat decent for the market you’re in at the time of purchase, I don’t see a reason why not to buy one.
Do some unbiased research on the gens and the amount of work, R&D and effort put in by the brand and you may be able to look at them with different eyes and not just see overpriced, ugly watches. The ugly is to each their own but understanding and appreciating them is another topic altogether.

 

[GiantSquid]

The retail prices for the usual models like 35, 55 etc. aren’t that high. For example the white ceramic 55 or 35 are / were around 100-120k retail from the boutique. The chance of being able to buy one at retail? Pretty low.
It’s the market ‘demand’ (there is demand to all the nay-sayers saying it’s a fully artificially inflated market (only partly true)) that has pushed the prices of these so high up. Are they worth the market price? Maybe not imho but if money is no issue and the price is somewhat decent for the market you’re in at the time of purchase, I don’t see a reason why not to buy one.
Do some unbiased research on the gens and the amount of work, R&D and effort put in by the brand and you may be able to look at them with different eyes and not just see overpriced, ugly watches. The ugly is to each their own but understanding and appreciating them is another topic altogether.

Higher-than-necessary standard pricing for exclusivity is literally a pillar of the RM philosophy, though. The materials and work required is indeed very impressive, but a key tenet of their marketing strategy is pricing themselves at ludicrous levels. Richard Mille himself is a marketer, not a watchmaker, and their excessive pricing is entirely by design. There is zero reason besides intentional marketing hype that RMs are priced over, say, Greubel Forsey, but that's not inherently a bad thing, just the avenue that RM has chosen to pursue to accrue market value. Things work differently when Veblen goods are concerned

 

[RX7GP]

Guys, just finished reading the 39 pages topic on 055 by BBR.

My opinion is that the watch looks more than fine, but i read way too many issues with movement stopping...
Glad they corrected the terrible red jevel on V2, but still puzzled by movement issues (also second hands stuttering on most of them).
I'll dive into the ZF, I know it is not a modded movement, but hopefully movement is a bit more solid.

thanks for the input! keep em coming

That might be from old batches, never seen any issues for newer V2 BBR's, mine for example working rock solid

 

[QueTip]

Higher-than-necessary standard pricing for exclusivity is literally a pillar of the RM philosophy, though. The materials and work required is indeed very impressive, but a key tenet of their marketing strategy is pricing themselves at ludicrous levels. Richard Mille himself is a marketer, not a watchmaker, and their excessive pricing is entirely by design. There is zero reason besides intentional marketing hype that RMs are priced over, say, Greubel Forsey, but that's not inherently a bad thing, just the avenue that RM has chosen to pursue to accrue market value. Things work differently when Veblen goods are concerned

Totally correct and agreed. We need to remember this is a business after all. What good is that if it doesn’t turn sufficient profit? The bigger, the better, of course.

 

[Burbizia]

That might be from old batches, never seen any issues for newer V2 BBR's, mine for example working rock solid

so a RM055 BBF (V2) has an Ok reputation?
Maybe bad experiences were with V1.


I also tried to find 027-02 from Eur Factory in Puretime store but had no success.