Lotteebutter197m AKA Mr. Chargeback

[drstrangeph]

Guy knows how Paypal works - they take the buyer's word, that's it. Li's Paypal from now on is flagged as well.

 

[C Master]

@Lotteebutter197m you saw the wrath of the members here. You saw the brig threads and the potential they had to make your life a misery. I am glad you opted to do the right thing and pay back the money you owed to @jtimewatch .

I could let this drag on but since you saw the error of your ways and repaid your debts I am going to just ban you. I am appealing to the membership to ignore this person from now on. I wish that no further action is taken.

Ken never darken the door of RWI again. If you do you will end up back here.

 

[Cubby]

Our friend here has, whether under implied risks or the weight of our collective, public condemnation, taken a tentative step in the right direction on his personal journey towards rehabilitation for this offence, and we should all acknowledge that… while the condemnation of his well thought out scheme, and its actual (rather than attempted) execution, continues parallel.

The conception of organs of the state involved in crime and punishment recognises that mechanisms via which the sentencing purpose of those courts in criminal matters and the sentencing options which they have available - see, eg, imprisonment - do not need to involve the assent of the party involved.

So too has this situation seen this person go from arsery with dishonest financial gain as a benefit to him, to arsery in respect of which the dishonest financial gain has now been reversed.

The arsery itself remains to be addressed.

100% Could not have put it better myself, fraud is fraud and deception is deception even if the person put it right. The intent was there.

 

[rolex4me]

No matter if he put it right, probably under duress from pressure, the fucker should be shamed and banned.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig.

Being banned is ok.
I wouldn't pillory him.
If he is pilloried now (after he has paid his debts), it will discourage future fraudsters from paying off their debts because they will think, 'Why should I pay my debts if I will be pilloried afterwards.

ps. The thing about the lipstick and the pig made me laugh

 

[Reaps]

I'm happy it turned out well. I got a little nasty but sometimes we gotta roll in the mud to get results. Thanks staff and all for always doing great work for the community

 

[xray7]

I wouldn't pillory him.
If he is pilloried now (after he has paid his debts), it will discourage future fraudsters from paying off their debts because they will think, 'Why should I pay my debts if I will be pilloried afterwards.

There is a key distinction in the two broad concepts of deterrence - general deterrence and specific deterrence.

By beating the individual scammer to dust, we deter the individual from the repetition of scamming behaviour, as though the scammer is a child whose smacked arse smarts from the paddling received - an uncomfortable sensation to most, but perhaps something which via miswiring becomes a kink.

By beating one scammer’s reputation into dust while others watch the lashes being delivered in the town square of the forum, while we variously laugh, mock, or cackle as though hyenas, via general deterrence, we discourage others from engaging in scamming. The other children in the crowd tempted to scam see both the paddling and the mockery and think twice.

I hasten to point out that if all that discourages a man from taking advantage of others, whether the means to achieve it is complex or straightforward, is the threat of their reputation being tarnished, then as far as the measures of a man goes in almost every culture, they are not a man at all.

All of that said, we must always give those who have done wrong the opportunity to atone for their misdeeds. Whether atonement is accomplished by exile or time in the brig is a matter for determination by moderators.

Atonement begins with exposing conduct to the light of day and whatever the process of redemption may be is something which proceeds from there, at the discretion of a mod. It obviously depends on the nature of the misdeed.

By way of practical example, advertising as undamaged a watch which is scratched to shit while evading depicting images of the said damage in a sales thread does not amount to the same gravity of misdeed as claiming an empty box against a seller and then having the fucking audacity to shout about the replica status of the goods to the payment provider - a status well known to the buyer at the point of purchase. The refund was all but assured already, whereas the need to kick the seller while the seller was already at a major disadvantage speaks to the vile nature of the offender as a profoundly aggravating factor.

I am confident in saying that genuine mistakes will be forgiven by this forum, whereas well thought scheming will never be forgiven, absent some extraordinary mitigating circumstances.

Where conduct lands in the gap between the two, what follows turns on the situation such as it manifests and will always involved questions of fact and degree.

But in this case, the ban was, I’m sure we will all agree, utterly warranted in the circumstances.

I now take the opportunity to address you very directly indeed, Ken. I’m sure you will be back one way or another to see how bad the damage is or was post ban.

If you are reading this under a new username or you’re looking over your buddy’s shoulder as he logs in on his other account, dear precocious young maestro with house cat-like wrists who thought a chargeback was a slick move - you need to know, here and now, that you are not slick. That much is clear already.

I am quite sure if you are detected trying to be slick - a quality your conduct, we have established, does not possess - by being here by stealth via a friend or otherwise again at any time in the future, the consequences which could readily have been brought down upon you for this transgression for which you have been banned, will be brought down upon you in full measure.

You have been told - not asked - to leave. You have been given ample opportunity to withdraw. You are a trespasser, and if your trespass continues or resumes in the future, the response will be not disproportionate, I would envisage.

As mentioned above, you are not slick. Your scam was without flair, originality, or even a hint of actual sophistication. It’s the type of bullshit one reads on a subreddit dedicated to ripping off Amazon or something you may have found on the TOTSE forums of yore. You strike me as a wealthy little boy who thought the risks would be limited in playing games, and that your conduct would somehow be victimless. Perhaps to you, hiding behind a computer screen with a seller in another country, assumed that nobody would bother to hold you accountable.

Every seller, TD or private, is either an individual or a group of individuals. Not a large corporate entity. And we are almost all, in the context of our dealings here, which is a world apart from our day jobs, scrupulously honest.

The thing the scammer often forgets is, when they, as Frank Abagnale, a man who committed all sorts of scams (not least of which was the book from which I quote which portrays him as a suave teenage mastermind, which later investigation has showed was not the case at all - he’s just a good marketer) put in one of his books, to “yench a square John” - to take money from an individual who is not a corporation and has not tried to get one over you - is not the done thing… and it can bring with it disparate consequences to ripping off a company.

Individuals and those with whom they are affiliated will respond quite differently than a big corporation (which accepts certain risks in this era of e-commerce and reliance on common carriers) to being “done over”.

You have had a taste - and a taste only - of fucking with people with whom you have no business fucking. Think yourself incredibly fucking lucky to have been dealt with as leniently as you have been.

Hopefully next time you consider this sort of scam, scheme, or rip in your life, from now until your dying day - I mean this very sincerely indeed - I hope you cast your mind back to the contextually light sting to the arse you’ve felt here.

If you don’t remember this for growth or altruism or being a man, it nothing else, remember there are people out there would not have simply smacked your arse for this.

If you continue to play the “fucking with people”, you just never know when your number will come up. Quit while you are ahead.

 

[Cubby]

There is a key distinction in the two broad concepts of deterrence - general deterrence and specific deterrence.

By beating the individual scammer to dust, we deter the individual from the repetition of scamming behaviour, as though the scammer is a child whose smacked arse smarts from the paddling received - an uncomfortable sensation to most, but perhaps something which via miswiring becomes a kink.

By beating one scammer’s reputation into dust while others watch the lashes being delivered in the town square of the forum, while we variously laugh, mock, or cackle as though hyenas, via general deterrence, we discourage others from engaging in scamming.

I hasten to point out that if all that discourages a man from taking advantage of others is the threat of their reputation being tarnished, then they are not much of a man.

We must always give those who have done wrong the opportunity to atone for their misdeeds.

Atonement begins with exposing this conduct to the light of day and whatever the process of redemption may be is something which proceeds from there. It obviously depends on the nature of the misdeed.

By way of practical example, advertising as undamaged a watch which is scratched to shit while evading depicting images of the said damage in a sales thread does not amount to the same gravity of misdeed as claiming an empty box against a seller and then having the fucking audacity to shout about the replica status of the goods - a status well known to the buyer at the point of purchase.

I am confident in saying that genuine mistakes will be forgiven by this forum, whereas well thought scheming will never forgiven. Where someone lands in the gap between the two turns on the situation such as it manifests and will always involved questions of fact and degree. But in this case, the ban was, I’m sure we will all agree, utterly warranted in the circumstances.

If you are reading this under a new username or you’re looking over your buddy’s shoulder, dear young maestro with house cat-like wrists who thought a chargeback was a slick move - you are not slick. That much is clear already.

I am quite sure if you are detected trying to be slick - a quality your conduct, we have established, does not possess - by being here by stealth again at any time in the future, the consequences which could readily have been brought down upon you for this transgression for which you have been banned, will be brought down upon you in full measure.

You have been told - not asked - to leave. You have been given ample opportunity to withdraw. You are a trespasser, and if your trespass continues or resumes in the future, the response will be not disproportionate, I would envisage.

Well reasoned argument, I could not express it better myself. We are a collection of people on a forum and do not like bad apples. This should be a lesson to any wannabe scammers, if your thinking about trying a fast one, Forget it.

 

[Cheesegrater]

That filth actually resend the paypal payment? REALLY?

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

Hey @Lotteebutter197m you look like a kid wearing his dad's watch. You sure you also didn't steal your dad's credit card to pull this little scam right you little scumbag? You probably did because you don't know the value of a dollar.

The 15720 is a watch for men, not little boys with no concept of honor.

you broke the law in Singapore? brave man or idiot?

 

[Cheesegrater]

He needs to wear that watch around hiswaist....
the fuck is that wrist? 13 year old kid?

No one will believe he owns that watch.

 

[themaxx25]

I hope that @jtimewatch will share your details amongst all dealers as a precaution so you can NEVER buy a watch again.

This still needs to happen!

 

[Dave2302]

I missed this as I'm really busy right now.
I honestly doubt this pond life will learn until he is hanging upside down in a disused warehouse over-night wondering what will happen next !!
As far as he will be concerned his only wrong doing was being captured

remember there are people out there would not have simply smacked your arse for this.

Very eloquently put maestro