I'm confusing on the P.3000 clone movement too.
I still considering to get PAM127 or PAM617. :sad:
The PAM127 should be a better purchase as there is no confusion about the movement. But if you prefer the PAM617 then best to clarify with your TD.
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Inside the p.3000 clone V4 movement, a trip to the hell and back
- Thread starter chris3007
- Start date
The PAM127 should be a better purchase as there is no confusion about the movement. But if you prefer the PAM617 then best to clarify with your TD.
Thanks! I don't think TD will clarify more about this watch. They will ask me find out more information at the link in InTimeWatch. Puretime doesn't come with ZF PAM617.
I recently serviced another one of these super clone P 3000 movements. Except for the grimy keyless, the rest of the watch was incredibly clean, but dry, virtually unoiled. Given the difficulty of reassembling these movements (it is a nightmare in some regards, because of the wobble in the gears), I would recommend that people do not take apart the main gear train system, but instead just oil all of its jewels. There was really no trace of oil on these, and I do not see how removing these gears, cleaning them, and then refitting them results in much better performance than just oiling them in their original positions. As a tip for reassembly: you have to start from the escapement side and get the escapement and second wheel to fit together, then, using one screw in place on the bridge near the escapement to lightly hold the bridge in place in the section where those two gears are now assembled,, work back, with tweezers, and align all of the other gears, back to the transfer gear near the second barrel bridge. There is really no satisfying moment when the bridge clicks into place, like on so many other movements, just this tedious fine tweezer and eye work, until you get the power transmission from the barrel to the escape wheel, then you know you have succeeded, and can tighten the bridge down with all three screws. Like many here, I think the Chinese really deserve our full respect for putting this movement together, in all meanings of the word.
Just three additional things:
1.) the holes for the dial feet on the Super Clone P 3000 are in exactly the same position as the OEM Panerai movement. But the Super Clone holes are a bit smaller. So, if you are doing a Franken with a Super Clone P 3000, you do not need to cut and reposition the dial feet on your OEM dial. All you need to do it is to drill out the existing holes and modify the feet tabs.
2.) the pinion sizes for hour/minute are just the same as as for ETA 28XX hands: 150/90. So you can install ETA 28XX type hands on it.
3) the diameter of the Super Clone P 3000 is almost exactly the same as an ETA 6897. What difference there is is insignificant.
Just three additional things:
1.) the holes for the dial feet on the Super Clone P 3000 are in exactly the same position as the OEM Panerai movement. But the Super Clone holes are a bit smaller. So, if you are doing a Franken with a Super Clone P 3000, you do not need to cut and reposition the dial feet on your OEM dial. All you need to do it is to drill out the existing holes and modify the feet tabs.
2.) the pinion sizes for hour/minute are just the same as as for ETA 28XX hands: 150/90. So you can install ETA 28XX type hands on it.
3) the diameter of the Super Clone P 3000 is almost exactly the same as an ETA 6897. What difference there is is insignificant.
- 18/1/11
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Thanks J, now having read right through this, I see why you gave me the warning that these should be the last thing on my list of progression.
Just one thing, what oil(s) are you using on these? D5, 9010?
Sent from my thumbs
Just one thing, what oil(s) are you using on these? D5, 9010?
Sent from my thumbs
This is a great article - kudos to both the Chinese watchmakers and the watchmakers on this forum!
@slaughterer62 - I just received a PAM564 with the superclone p.3000 decorated to look like p.5000. Having strange issues with winding - seems to go on forever, without stopping, don't want to push it, feels fairly tight but keeps winding with slight spring back resistence each turn. Think I will let it power down and then wind up from there and see how I go. Read that lubrication may be needed probably dry - so based on your excellent recommendation to just oil the jewels - I may have a local watchsmith here (Old Chinese watchsmith in my neighborhood) do that instead of the full clean and lub which surely would be tough to crack for someone who never saw this movement before.. even though they may be very skilled? I am located in China so perhaps also easily doable to have the watch sent to rep makers for service.. or other expert.. hoping all I need is lub the jewels, watch is running well and keeping time.. in fact a really great rep imho
@slaughterer62 - I just received a PAM564 with the superclone p.3000 decorated to look like p.5000. Having strange issues with winding - seems to go on forever, without stopping, don't want to push it, feels fairly tight but keeps winding with slight spring back resistence each turn. Think I will let it power down and then wind up from there and see how I go. Read that lubrication may be needed probably dry - so based on your excellent recommendation to just oil the jewels - I may have a local watchsmith here (Old Chinese watchsmith in my neighborhood) do that instead of the full clean and lub which surely would be tough to crack for someone who never saw this movement before.. even though they may be very skilled? I am located in China so perhaps also easily doable to have the watch sent to rep makers for service.. or other expert.. hoping all I need is lub the jewels, watch is running well and keeping time.. in fact a really great rep imho
Pam 564 was not released with a clone movement yet AFAIK. The only available version I'm aware of is the v6f with decorated a6497 which is far easier to work on if needed and generally does not need to be serviced upon receiving it.
When PR is completely down, you should wind the crown 30-40 times for a complete charge, you will feel a strong resistance when completely wound.
When PR is completely down, you should wind the crown 30-40 times for a complete charge, you will feel a strong resistance when completely wound.
Thanks @kilowattore for the advice on winding. My PAM564 is a later VSF version. It has superclone p.3000 with added deco of p.5000
So perhaps I can follow the same lub instruction for the movement as described here?
So perhaps I can follow the same lub instruction for the movement as described here?
There is one with the decorative plates replaced to make it look like a P.5000.
A6497 based decorated P.5000
Superclone P.3000 decorated with P.5000 plates
There is one with the decorative plates replaced to make it look like a P.5000.
A6497 based decorated P.5000
Superclone P.3000 decorated with P.5000 plates
Oh, I was not aware of that... Can't keep up! :lol:
yep mine is the second one.. in some ways perhaps the A6947 version would've been better. Though I believe the PAM564 I have has a 1:1 case and is a little thinner than the other version..
This is a great article - kudos to both the Chinese watchmakers and the watchmakers on this forum!
@slaughterer62 - I just received a PAM564 with the superclone p.3000 decorated to look like p.5000. Having strange issues with winding - seems to go on forever, without stopping, don't want to push it, feels fairly tight but keeps winding with slight spring back resistence each turn. Think I will let it power down and then wind up from there and see how I go. Read that lubrication may be needed probably dry - so based on your excellent recommendation to just oil the jewels - I may have a local watchsmith here (Old Chinese watchsmith in my neighborhood) do that instead of the full clean and lub which surely would be tough to crack for someone who never saw this movement before.. even though they may be very skilled? I am located in China so perhaps also easily doable to have the watch sent to rep makers for service.. or other expert.. hoping all I need is lub the jewels, watch is running well and keeping time.. in fact a really great rep imho
The barrel system is rather unusual and mechanically weak. I can imagine it failing or not working properly.
Most P.3000 super clone movements I have inspected were very clean. Removal of the deco plates and proper oiling of the jewels seems the most convenient way to deal with it rather than a full SCL service which might take more than 10 hours for the inexperienced.
MikeWatchMuc
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