If I get a Sub built from as many genuine Rolex parts as possible, will it function as well as a gen watch?

[Blkwolf1]

Hi all,

I'm currently assessing having a Sub built from as many gen parts as possible by a reputable RWI builder. The movement will likely have to be a rep, but eventually some years down the line, it will be replaced with a gen movement.

My situation is, I currently own a gen Omega Speedy, and just had to foot a 300 dollar repair bill because water got into it, so I want a dive watch that is more water proof than a speedy. My grail watch has always been a submariner (yeah I know, but the model holds sentimental value to me, father passed wearing one) but can't afford it. However, I also want a high quality timepiece at the end of the day.

Will a Franken watch, built from gen parts, good rep movement, and a $2500 budget and a good builder be just as reliable and high quality as a gen Rolex? Or is there some extra magic that the Rolex factory does that causes it to be superior? Genuinely asking, I'm still very new to Rep world. Any advice is welcome!

 

[KGZ]

No rep movement will be as reliable as the gen but you shouldn't be too concerned about reliability as there are very reliable rep sub movements available. The VS3135 (found on 40mm VSF 116xxx submariners) is an excellent clone movement that is very reliable. The VS3235 (found on 41mm VSF 126xxx subs) is even better.

The only downside of the VS3235 is that replacements are not yet available so in the (unlikely) event that the movement fails your only option is to repair it whereas VS3135 replacements are available on eBay and AliExpress for around $130 USD. The upside of the VS3235 is that it is a true clone of the gen Rolex 3235 calibre which means that it’s possible to swap gen parts into this movement to improve it. This is a big plus if you are going the franken route.

You can read more about Rolex rep movements here.

With your budget and a good builder you can get a killer sub.

If you are after a 6 digits sub, an OOTB VSF sub is already a great watch. A correctly frankened VSF sub is as close as you can get to rep perfection.

If you are after a 5 digits sub, a frankened ARF with a VS3135 can also be very close to rep perfection.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nur-Uhr]

All corret mentionded by @KGZ - great sum up


@Blkwolf1 if you are looking for a 5-digit 16610 model - take a look to the sales area M2M here.
There are actually some really nice Franken and SuperFranken pieces for sale. (also Collectors Watch Corner)

 

[p0pperini]

I can barely see the point in building a Franken if the aim is for a watch "as reliable and high quality as a gen Rolex". Frankens merely fractionally improve the cosmetics of a rep - unless the movement is upgraded with gen parts or replaced with gen (which is rarely economically justifiable these days).

The only two factors that have a bearing on reliability are:
1. The movement
2. The waterproofing
The clone movements in the current top of the range reps are very well made, will most likely last years, and are relatively cheap and easy to replace. And as long as the rep is checked for waterproofing before being submerged, it should be as good as any quality dive watch.

My advice for anyone new to the rep scene would always be: Buy a good quality rep first, and wear it for a while, before considering spending out on a Franken project. Chances are you'll be so blown away by the quality of the rep, the desire to Franken it will fade.

 

[KGZ]

I can barely see the point in building a Franken if the aim is for a watch "as reliable and high quality as a gen Rolex". Frankens merely fractionally improve the cosmetics of a rep - unless the movement is upgraded with gen parts or replaced with gen (which is rarely economically justifiable these days).

Quote of the day.

This is particularly true with the VSF 6 digits subs. I wouldn't bother to franken one. They are that good OOTB.

The ARF 16610 is a good base but needs a bit of work (CGs, SEL, bezel insert and clickspring) and a VSF or gen crystal to be on par with the VSF subs. The new VR3135 movement, while not as good as the VS3135, is not bad of a movement. Worst case, you can replace it with a VS3135 if it ever fails.

 

[Karbon74]

100% with @p0pperini and @KGZ
Buy and wear the 6digits VSF Sub.

You can always do the frankening later.

 

[Zeta7]

Quote of the day.

This is particularly true with the VSF 6 digits subs. I wouldn't bother to franken one. They are that good OOTB.

The ARF 16610 is a good base but needs a bit of work (CGs, SEL, bezel insert and clickspring) and a VSF or gen crystal to be on par with the VSF subs. The new VR3135 movement, while not as good as the VS3135, is not bad of a movement. Worst case, you can replace it with a VS3135 if it ever fails.

It just depends on what you want. I just had the movement of my no date vsf frankenkened and it’s holding at just shy of +2 a day while wearing for 2 weeks not just a timegrapher. Was it worth doing? IMO it’s worth doing as much as anything else. Beaty is in the eye of the beer holder. Some like Gen crystals hands date wheels and bezels others prefer spending money on the movement and still others prefer ootb. It’s all about what you like.

 

[Blkwolf1]

I'm honestly thinking of just getting a VSF sub, and frankening it piece by piece until I can ship of Theseus it in 4 years time. VSF subs are really that good huh?

 

[CurioLeo]

If reliability is your driver, then don't bother frankening a top quality rep. Dropping all the genuine parts in the world into a VS3135 movement and case still doesn't get you much closer to gen reliability because you are mixing and matching parts that have not undergone holistic QA. You can get lucky, have everything match perfectly and you have a genstein that will last many years. You may also get unlucky and have the seconds hand keep falling off because the pinion dimension isn't quite right, the crystal gasket doesn't quite match the case profile, the cogs on the gen and rep wheels don't quite match etc etc. With a rep, there really is no guarantee (think Forrest Gump and a box of chocolates - you never know what you are gonna get). BTW, buying reps is a slippery slope - especially if you are inclined to spend the money to franken them. Before you know it, you have spent enough to buy a genuine Sub. Save your money, buy the same 16610 ( I assume ?) your father wore, call it a day.

 

[Zeta7]

If reliability is your driver, then don't bother frankening a top quality rep. Dropping all the genuine parts in the world into a VS3135 movement and case still doesn't get you much closer to gen reliability because you are mixing and matching parts that have not undergone holistic QA. You can get lucky, have everything match perfectly and you have a genstein that will last many years. You may also get unlucky and have the seconds hand keep falling off because the pinion dimension isn't quite right, the crystal gasket doesn't quite match the case profile, the cogs on the gen and rep wheels don't quite match etc etc. With a rep, there really is no guarantee (think Forrest Gump and a box of chocolates - you never know what you are gonna get). BTW, buying reps is a slippery slope - especially if you are inclined to spend the money to franken them. Before you know it, you have spent enough to buy a genuine Sub. Save your money, buy the same 16610 ( I assume ?) your father wore, call it a day.

With such logic and the vsf 126610’s not having replacement parts nobody should even buy one of them. With the smallest issue they would be better off just tossing them in the garbage. Same with the clean GMT. What do you suggest people who own vs3235 and dd3285 movement watches do when their watch needs a part?

 

[CurioLeo]

With such logic and the vsf 126610’s not having replacement parts nobody should even buy one of them. With the smallest issue they would be better off just tossing them in the garbage. Same with the clean GMT. What do you suggest people who own vs3235 and dd3285 movement watches do when their watch needs a part?

Throw them in the bin It's a rep. If you want to maximise wear from a rep, stay away from clone movements (3135 probably being one of the rare exceptions although I understand the A3120 and 4130 are also very good) and get something with A2824/SW200, A7750, ST19 (pretty rare these days) or 6497 (old school PAMs) movement. That way you can replace a dead movement if you want to.

 

[Timmer]

The only downside of the VS3235 is that replacements are not yet available so in the (unlikely) event that the movement fails your only option is to repair it whereas VS3135 replacements are available on eBay and AliExpress for around $130 USD. The upside of the VS3235 is that it is a true clone of the gen Rolex 3235 calibre which means that it’s possible to swap gen parts into this movement to improve it. This is a big plus if you are going the franken route

I noticed a VS3235 (Sub version) offered by Sillan on AliB the other day; $300, min order of 2.

Top Luxury Clone Rlx Vsf 3235 Watch Movement For Sub 126610 High Quality Automatic Self-winding Watch Replacement Par - Buy Vsf 3235 Movement,Rlx Movement,126610 Watch Movement Product on Alibaba.com

Top Luxury Clone Rlx Vsf 3235 Watch Movement For Sub 126610 High Quality Automatic Self-winding Watch Replacement Par - Buy Vsf 3235 Movement,Rlx Movement,126610 Watch Movement Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

 

[Zeta7]

Throw them in the bin It's a rep. If you want to maximise wear from a rep, stay away from clone movements (3135 probably being one of the rare exceptions although I understand the A3120 and 4130 are also very good) and get something with A2824/SW200, A7750, ST19 (pretty rare these days) or 6497 (old school PAMs) movement. That way you can replace a dead movement if you want to.

I echoed those exact sentiments on several occasions because I live in a small town and nobody locally will work on the vs31xx vs32xx vr or dd movements. After studying the vs3235 it occurred to me there was a flaw in its design. I thought if the flaw was corrected early enough it might perform nearly as well as the genuine Rolex 3235. The flaw as I see it came about by over powering the main spring in the rep to achieve the 72hr power reserve which then exerts excessive force to the rest of the parts. The solution seemed clear to me and that was to return the movement back to its original Rolex design. The sooner the better. It was just a few parts and I thought it would be fun to see what happened. The first watch I had done was a couple of months old. It turned out okay but didn’t perform like Gen. The second watch was new and it does perform like Gen. Now I’m at a phase in testing that only time will tell. However I don’t have any misconceptions about what they are. I’m just curious and it’s not like we’re talking about a bunch of money. A weekend in a decent hotel on the beach costs more. It’s a hobby and it’s real purpose is to have fun. Just my humble opinion

 

[Karbon74]

I'm honestly thinking of just getting a VSF sub, and frankening it piece by piece until I can ship of Theseus it in 4 years time. VSF subs are really that good huh?

that's the right way
get used to the watch and figure out what you want to change, rather than doing massive expense upfront

 

[p0pperini]

I noticed a VS3235 (Sub version) offered by Sillan on AliB the other day; $300, min order of 2

Buying the clone movements from Ali can be a hit and miss affair. I've had a couple of good ones from a well-known Aliexpress seller, who third time round sent a (poor) clone of the clone. The problem is always that most of these sellers don't know a good one when they see it, they just sell what their supplier palms them off with. The good thing is Ali's refund policy means you'll likely get your money back if you raise a ticket (I did).

But, members here frequently sell the movements, and you know you'll be getting a good one. So I'd be inclined to stick with them (unless you happen to have a 100% reliable Ali source).

 

[tomriddle]

Hi all,

I'm currently assessing having a Sub built from as many gen parts as possible by a reputable RWI builder. The movement will likely have to be a rep, but eventually some years down the line, it will be replaced with a gen movement.

My situation is, I currently own a gen Omega Speedy, and just had to foot a 300 dollar repair bill because water got into it, so I want a dive watch that is more water proof than a speedy. My grail watch has always been a submariner (yeah I know, but the model holds sentimental value to me, father passed wearing one) but can't afford it. However, I also want a high quality timepiece at the end of the day.

Will a Franken watch, built from gen parts, good rep movement, and a $2500 budget and a good builder be just as reliable and high quality as a gen Rolex? Or is there some extra magic that the Rolex factory does that causes it to be superior? Genuinely asking, I'm still very new to Rep world. Any advice is welcome!

it'll be as reliable and as good BUT never will be genuine..

because of the heart.. because of its guts.. you will never, ever, be able to take it to a Rolex Service Center or a real Jeweler to get it serviced. Won't happen..

that's the essence of our world.. we can 1:1 it to the exact genuine.. but it is not. That is where the game ends..

but get yourself a trusted smith who will work on reps and you have the world in your hands my friend

 

[Zeta7]

it'll be as reliable and as good BUT never will be genuine..

because of the heart.. because of its guts.. you will never, ever, be able to take it to a Rolex Service Center or a real Jeweler to get it serviced. Won't happen..

that's the essence of our world.. we can 1:1 it to the exact genuine.. but it is not. That is where the game ends..

but get yourself a trusted smith who will work on reps and you have the world in your hands my friend

I totally agree with never being able to take them to a Rolex Service Center. Real jewelers are a different animal altogether.

 

[suffolkdiver]

Hi all,

I'm currently assessing having a Sub built from as many gen parts as possible by a reputable RWI builder. The movement will likely have to be a rep, but eventually some years down the line, it will be replaced with a gen movement.

My situation is, I currently own a gen Omega Speedy, and just had to foot a 300 dollar repair bill because water got into it, so I want a dive watch that is more water proof than a speedy. My grail watch has always been a submariner (yeah I know, but the model holds sentimental value to me, father passed wearing one) but can't afford it. However, I also want a high quality timepiece at the end of the day.

Will a Franken watch, built from gen parts, good rep movement, and a $2500 budget and a good builder be just as reliable and high quality as a gen Rolex? Or is there some extra magic that the Rolex factory does that causes it to be superior? Genuinely asking, I'm still very new to Rep world. Any advice is welcome!

If you are using the watch for scuba diving then get a good one just for that. Deep Blue make great divers watches as do Oceaneve, or Seiko.
Most of them are rated for 200 mts depth

 

[Triggerstuck]

I have a Gen (16613 w/3135). It’s never been that great at keeping time no matter how many times it’s been serviced. It doesn’t get any wrist time anymore.

 

[tomriddle]

I totally agree with never being able to take them to a Rolex Service Center. Real jewelers are a different animal altogether.

a real jeweler.. a legit real jewelry store will NEVER service a fake watch

ever

they'll politely tell you to come get your watch asap upon opening it if you even get them to take it and service it in the first place.. or politely tell you, "that's an amazing watch. expensive too. send it to Rolex" .. that last one is from personal experience. I was younger then in my 20's.. too inexperienced to know they basically told me FOH..