How to replace crystal (or remove bezel) on 116710LN clone?

[TonyMonatana44]

What you do via PM is between the 2 of you, but the default advice is for any deal involving money/items changing hands, sales threads are recommended but only certified members can create those.

Gotcha. I will be doing all that when I return from my trip to Europe as I have a few reps and parts to sell and want to be more active on here.

Until then, @freddy333 I have a retaining ring from my junk GMT Batman that I don't need. I'm in the New England area in the US, so if you'd like I can send it to you no problem. I leave in 3 days so let me know before then. Cheers.

 

[KJ2020]

UPDATE --

Failure!

After verifying correct bezel height/date magnification, I pressed the wavy retaining ring on, but either my die slipped off the edge of the retaining ring or the ring itself bent & slid out of alignment within the die. In any case, Fortunately, I was able to remove the retaining ring, the crystal is fine & it came with a 2nd crystal gasket. So I will need to source another wavy retaining ring & find a better fitting die or pressing procedure.

I have straightened out several retaining rings and even some bezels using a stiff board and a rubber mallet. Put the raised arc over the edge of the board and pound away on it with the mallet. You have to hold the straight part down against the board (or workbench edge). I've done that with just my other hand for bezels and flimsy retaining rings.

With a strong retaining ring like GMF/BP, you can clamp the straight part down tightly then pound the raised arc down. This task is made even easier if you have a vise - the ring can be operated on in numerous ways to straighten it out. Just protect it well if using metal tools. For example use a couple of thin metal plates to sandwich it between vise jaws leaving the raised arc exposed. Then use a thin but stout wood block on edge like a chisel and hammer down the raised section with a metal hammer. Plenty of ways to do this. Keep in mind that it's possible to over correct in the other direction so sometimes you to have bend it back a little.

You can use some metal bezels as a die - one that fits a same size crystal. 36 or 40mm Day-date or Datejust, 16570 Explorer II, etc. These can be bought pretty cheaply on AliExpress. Also watch the ring closely during the pressing and don't let it go on crooked. Keep it level as much as possible. Stop pressing if it gets crooked, raise the low side with a case knife and insert a shim to prevent that side from going down any further. Once it gets evenly lower, remove the shim and continue.

I would try to salvage your retaining ring first before sourcing a replacement. There are many subtle differences across factories and aftermarket ones and your bezel is matched to that specific ring's shape and dimensions. Mixing and matching bezel parts does not always lead to a successful pairing.

 

[freddy333]

I would try to salvage your retaining ring first before sourcing a replacement. There are many subtle differences across factories and aftermarket ones and your bezel is matched to that specific ring's shape and dimensions. Mixing and matching bezel parts does not always lead to a successful pairing.

I have already ordered a replacement, but since you have found that mixing bezel parts may not work, I will try straightening the original out. It seems to be fairly pliable, so it should not be that difficult. I worry, however, that having been bent, it may now be weakened & more apt to bend again. I will have to try to locate a better fitting die or, possibly, order 1 of the 16570 EXII bezels.
Thanks again, KJ.

 

[freddy333]

Gotcha. I will be doing all that when I return from my trip to Europe as I have a few reps and parts to sell and want to be more active on here.
Until then, @freddy333 I have a retaining ring from my junk GMT Batman that I don't need. I'm in the New England area in the US, so if you'd like I can send it to you no problem. I leave in 3 days so let me know before then. Cheers.

Thank you, I appreciate your very kind offer. But I think I will try to correct the original 1st. As mentioned above, I also (already) ordered another retainer, so I am going to hold off for now.

 

[freddy333]

Just pondering here, but since water-proofness is not high on my priorities (I NEVER wear any of my watches in water or even allow them to get wet when washing my hands), I do not need the retaining ring to provide an extremely water-tight fit. So I am considering sanding a bit of material off the inside face of the wavy retaining ring, just enough so that it can be pressed on with only moderate pressure. That is, more than finger-pressure, but less than I was using with the die & press.

In fact, since my primary goal with the bezel is to install it so it does not come off, I am thinking that will probably be the best way to go as it will reduce the likelihood of further problems & I will be able to get the watch completed that much quicker & with alot fewer (unhappy) surprises & drama.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Thank you, I appreciate your very kind offer. But I think I will try to correct the original 1st. As mentioned above, I also (already) ordered another retainer, so I am going to hold off for now.

No problem. If for whatever reason you need it. I can still have someone in my household send it out. I have it in my parts bin and it's readily accessible.

Just pondering here, but since water-proofness is not high on my priorities (I NEVER wear any of my watches in water or even allow them to get wet when washing my hands), I do not need the retaining ring to provide an extremely water-tight fit. So I am considering sanding a bit of material off the inside face of the wavy retaining ring, just enough so that it can be pressed on with only moderate pressure. That is, more than finger-pressure, but less than I was using with the die & press.

In fact, since my primary goal with the bezel is to install it so it does not come off, I am thinking that will probably be the best way to go as it will reduce the likelihood of further problems & I will be able to get the watch completed that much quicker & with alot fewer (unhappy) surprises & drama.

I would advise against making it super easy to press on. I have a few rep watches where my retaining ring seems not to do anything other than hold the bezel on. In return, I am always weary that the bezel, crystal and crystal gasket could fly off or come off along with the retaining ring altogether.

In a lot of instances, I don't even have to use a razor or press to remove the retaining ring because as soon as i lift my bezel ring up, it pulls the entire assembly up along with it. It makes for a NIGHTMARE to remove the bezel ring from the retaining ring after since the hytrel ring is usually tight. And obviously for safety of my crystals, I dont want to falling off if I were to accidentally hit my bezel on something.

You do you. It's your watch, but at the end of the day you can end up like me at an outlet mall and have your bezel come off along with everything else, while people look at you pick everything off the floor. Atleast make it somewhat resistant to push down requiring atleast some force using a crystal press.

If you're afraid of putting the retaining ring back in with a press I would highly suggest investing a few extra dollars in a quality press that won't cause the same issues you've experienced today. I use a cheap $60 press off of Amazon and I have never had any issues pressing the retaining ring on my reps or my gens. I would also suggest when you do put the watch/retaining ring into the die/press, is to hold the entire assembly inside the upper die and then screw/press the press down to make sure you're actually getting all of the retaining ring inside the die. Also making sure to place the retaining ring on the watch evenly before you decide to put all that force from the crystal press onto the retaining ring. It should be on the watch face evenly before pressing, which by the looks of your picture, i would bet that it wasn't.

Either way, good luck in your build.

 

[TonyMonatana44]

Amazon.com

FYI this is the bezel press I use. It requires the dies to screw into the press and that makes it sturdy/better than the other presses which just require you to pop in the dies. Those presses usually the dies aren't 100% straight and could cause the issues you had with your retaining ring not seating 100% flat.

 

[KJ2020]

Just pondering here, but since water-proofness is not high on my priorities (I NEVER wear any of my watches in water or even allow them to get wet when washing my hands), I do not need the retaining ring to provide an extremely water-tight fit. So I am considering sanding a bit of material off the inside face of the wavy retaining ring, just enough so that it can be pressed on with only moderate pressure. That is, more than finger-pressure, but less than I was using with the die & press.

In fact, since my primary goal with the bezel is to install it so it does not come off, I am thinking that will probably be the best way to go as it will reduce the likelihood of further problems & I will be able to get the watch completed that much quicker & with alot fewer (unhappy) surprises & drama.

I have on occasion lightly sanded the inside of a retaining ring. You can also shave the outer perimeter of a crystal gasket, even a gen. One or both of these mods can often be necessary with a CLEAN retaining ring since the stock rep crystal gasket is skinny and cheap compared to the thicker, more dense gen or Clark's gaskets.

Also, adding glue to the bottom of a crystal gasket where it meets the case and even embedding the retaining ring into that glue bead is a technique that I've used more than once. This is useful if the parts fit becomes too loose, or just to increase waterproofness if that's desired. UV glue, GSHypo, E6000, even clear epoxy are all viable glues for this task.

Crystal gasket shave - DIY

Crystal gasket shave Quick and dirty

 

[freddy333]

Atleast make it somewhat resistant to push down requiring atleast some force using a crystal press.

I appreciate what you are saying, but I have done this before & never had a customer complain about a bezel falling off.

From my previous post: --
"So I am considering sanding a bit of material off the inside face of the wavy retaining ring, JUST ENOUGH SO THAT IT CAN BE PRESSED ON WITH ONLY MODERATE PRESSURE. That is, MORE THAN FINGER-PRESSURE, but less than I was using with the die & press."

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --


Without the bezel gasket, the bezel/click spring unit clicks around in either direction without any problem. But, of course, once the bezel gasket is installed, I cannot press the bezel onto the case. Thinking that I must have the gasket on backwards, I reversed it, but no difference.

Tried installing the click spring onto the bezel & installing bezel/click spring as unit, but that did not work.
Tried installing the click spring around the wavy retaining ring on the case & then pressing the bezel down onto the pins, but that did not work.
Following KJ's How to fix the bezel on a clean tutorial & pressing on 1 of the 3 pins on the click spring & then pressing around the bezel, but that did not work.

Fortunately, I enjoy learning new things with watches, but I can see how this could sour people new to DIY watchmaking. This is as frustrating as learning how to untangle hairsprings. Well, maybe not quite that frustrating.

 

[geoffdragon]

@freddy333 the problem you have with reassembly is the same as you had with disassembly....the hytrel ring (bezel gasket) is causing your issues.

The posts above link to the issue many times.

Try a thinner gasket, or some fishing line, fluorocarbon guitar/ukulele strings as an alternative.

Luckily unlike hairsprings, brute force works wonders.

 

[VintageCollector12]

Hey @freddy333, I think @geoffdragon was onto something, if you're still struggling with the fit, you might want to consider lightly shaving the hytrel ring (bezel gasket) as suggested earlier—it's often the culprit in these assembly issues. Alternatively, using a thinner gasket or something like fluorocarbon fishing line can sometimes work wonders for easing the fit while maintaining functionality. Keep us posted on how it goes!

 

[freddy333]

Luckily unlike hairsprings, brute force works wonders.

I gave up on brute force before I began posting here.

 

[freddy333]

@freddy333 the problem you have with reassembly is the same as you had with disassembly....the hytrel ring (bezel gasket) is causing your issues.
The posts above link to the issue many times.
Try a thinner gasket, or some fishing line, fluorocarbon guitar/ukulele strings as an alternative.

Yes, I assumed it was the bezel gasket. But since it came with that gasket, I am trying to make it work with that gasket. However, I AM aware that I swapped the original crystal & crystal gasket for gens, which are slightly stiffer/thicker & that is likely the sticking point, so to speak.

I have already gently sanded the bezel gasket, but apparently not enough to make the difference.

I may try a modified version of KJ's fishing line, by cutting a short piece(s) out of the bezel gasket until I am able to create sufficient clearance to press the bezel on. I have more of those gaskets arriving next week, so, worst case, I will toss out the original gasket & begin anew with a new 1. Either way, this thing is already quite the looker (feels a bit more massive than my old franken too) & I cannot wait to see the completed GMT.

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --

After sanding the bezel gasket, test-fitting, sanding, test-fitting, sanding, test-fitting yada yada yada, I had finally reduced the gasket exposure enough to press the bezel onto the case. Whoopee!.......but what is this?.....bezel locked tight -- will not turn?!

The slimmed gasket apparently slid out of its bezel channel, trapping itself between the bezel inner circumference & the crystal gasket, locking the entire city down.

While I await the arrival of a set of new bezel gaskets, I will also implement plan B -- KJ's fishing line hack -- probably just until I can fit a proper gasket in its place.

File under 'it's always something'


Question for KJ -- Where did you purchase the fishing line by diameter?
All of the monofilament fishing line 'Sizes' I am finding online are listed by 'lb', which I assume refers to the weight a given line is rated for?
Is this available from local retail stores like Target, Dicks, etc?

 

[KJ2020]

UPDATE --

After sanding the bezel gasket, test-fitting, sanding, test-fitting, sanding, test-fitting yada yada yada, I had finally reduced the gasket exposure enough to press the bezel onto the case. Whoopee!.......but what is this?.....bezel locked tight -- will not turn?!

The slimmed gasket apparently slid out of its bezel channel, trapping itself between the bezel inner circumference & the crystal gasket, locking the entire city down.

While I await the arrival of a set of new bezel gaskets, I will also implement plan B -- KJ's fishing line hack -- probably just until I can fit a proper gasket in its place.

File under 'it's always something'


Question for KJ -- Where did you purchase the fishing line by diameter?
All of the monofilament fishing line 'Sizes' I am finding online are listed by 'lb', which I assume refers to the weight a given line is rated for?
Is this available from local retail stores like Target, Dicks, etc?

I got all mine from Walmart about 12 different diameters when I first started. So yes they are available locally. I quickly saw only about 5 were potential candidates so the rest went back. I've never used one outside of 0.45mm - 0.65mm YMMV. The spools will have the diameter on them in addition to the LB weight, which I've never paid much attention to.

 

[KJ2020]

25 30 40 LB weight are my top three, though I've seen some variance in LB weight to diameter from one manufacturer to another.

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --

After receiving the bezel gaskets today, the bezel was pressed-on securely with neither drama nor issue. Amazing how easy these things are when you have the correct parts.

Just awaiting the final piece of the puzzle (bezel insert adhesive). Once the adhesive arrives -- I expected it today, but it did not arrive, so any day now -- I will shoot some pics of this beauty.

Again -- thanks to KJ & all who contributed their knowledge, ideas & guidance.

 

[geoffdragon]

Amazing how the wrong piece of "plastic" can cause so many issues...and then the right one comes along and problems solved.

The tutorials from @KJ2020 are just so useful.

 

[freddy333]

Amazing how the wrong piece of "plastic" can cause so many issues...and then the right one comes along and problems solved.

Yes & I have to say that, in contrast to the 1165xx Daytona clones I own & others that I have worked on, this 116710LN is NOT a clone -- it is just a really good replica with all of the usual ill-fitting parts & oddities in key places that make frankening more work than it should be.

I have many years experience working on gens (built my 1st Rolex franken in the 1980s) & this was the 1st time in years that I was forced to seek assistance. I cannot imagine what fits average watch hobbyists must go through dealing with these things.

But perseverance does pay off. With the gen parts installed, I would be unable to tell this thing from an AD-sourced gen in the wild. & once I figure out why the gen balance is not working in this 'clone' 3186, it will appear, for all intents & purposes, gen inside & out, & I can then call this project 'complete'.