How to fix a loose Bezel on an ARF GMT Master 2 116710?

[architekt]

Hi guys,

so I just recently bought an ARF 116710 and I really love that watch.

The only problem is that the Bezel is sitting quite loosely on the 3 pin "click ring".

Horizontal motion works fine without a loose feeling and gives a satisfying click but very little vertical force and it just comes of (like if it would just "sit" on the pins).

Please watch the Video of me showing what I mean. I really don't think it's supposed to be anywhere near that loose:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TDy...w?usp=drivesdk

Any recommendations on how to properly fix this issue? Both the Pins and the Bezel underside show nowwear or damage whatsoever.

Thanks in advance,
architekt

 

[KJ2020]

When the bezel is on the watch, does it sit flush on the case? The bezel gasket (hytrel ring) is supposed to fit under the lip of the crystal retaining ring and anchor the bezel to the case. So maybe the bezel isn't pushed down far enough for the hytrel ring to advance past the retaining ring lip. It's also possible the hytrel ring is installed upside down in the bezel groove. They usually have a stairstep or other side edge profile that works in only one correct orientation.

Be very careful adjusting the hytrel ring or pressing the bezel down with the insert installed. It's pretty easy to damage the ring or crack the insert.

 

[architekt]

I can post closeup pictures in a few hours.

What I can see so far:
The outer side of the bezel has about 0.05 to 1.5mm of "wiggle room" to the case before coming off.
when it sits still the topside of the bezel seems to be about 0.05mm below the maximum hight of the crystal.
When i take off the bezel i see a white "ring" inside the inner side which should be the hytel ring if I understood that correctly?
This white ring seems to be of hard plastic and has no visible angle on the vertical axis to the crystal and case. it just seems to make the inner radius of the bezel about 1mm smaller.
On the case, about 1mm below from where the crystal sits I see a groove going round which is supposedly the groove where the hytel ring should make contact?

If so I'm not sure if it is making that proper contact when it is mounted

Depending on wich orientation the pins are compared to the bezel (like trying each pin with each bezel "hole"), the pressure I put on the bezel when mounting it to the watch and the angle I apply vertical force when trying to remove the bezel again, it seems the "resistance" ranges from pretty much nothing to 'holding the weight of the watch' and a little more.

 

[KJ2020]

The hytrel ring is supposed to sit in that groove on the retaining ring, beneath the protruding lip. The lip is what anchors the bezel to the case by creating an obstacle in the path of the hytrel ring to keep it from lifting up. So either yours is not pressed down below the lip, or it's worn or damaged or upside down or the wrong part.

Based on your crystal height relatively the insert (0.05mm is practically level), it sounds like your bezel isn't seated fully.

These pics show several different examples. The second pic is the GMF after I changed the crystal gasket to make the crystal sit lower. Note that the bezel is flush to the case in all pics.

 

[KJ2020]

Something I just noticed looking at your video again - it appears one of your 3 pin click ring oval discs is not seated properly (at 4 o'clock). This could be keeping your bezel from being able to be fully pressed down. Those discs need to be flush against the case, inside one of the retaining ring scallops.

 

[architekt]

Please excuse the dirt on the images I just snapped a few quick image in the office and had no time cleaning everything

This is how the bezel sits in relation to the crystal:

Yes it has a small gap to the case which is where the "wiggle" comes from:

The 3 pin click disk seems to sit properly inside the grooves (at least it looks like it to me):

The Pins go into those 3 holes, not the longer spaces from your last image:

The bezel gasket seems to be flat or if anything with slight angle to the inside going down:

I suppose it should go beneath that metal lip going round slightly below the crystal

When reassembling the watch I always some kind of metal "spacer" directly on top of the case, on that there is the 3 pin disk sitting in the grooves and I tried pushing the bezel on top of that.

Is the 3 pin disk supposed to be on the case first (wich i had when it came loose so I just stuck with it) or am I supposed to first mount the 3 pins to the bezel and then push everything on the case?

And based on the distance from the metal lip to the pins - is it possible that the hytrel ring is just facing in the wrong direction (i.e. the angle should go upwards and narrow the inner circumfrence?)

 

[Tekumseh]

Sounds for me that the "plastic" hyrtel ring is mounted wrong...

Be aware that these hyrtels have a tiny lip at the inside (direction to the retaining ring) which is hard to recognize sometimes.

It's very easy to oversee this and simply mount the hyrtel in the wrong direction.

You may try to turn the hyrtel 180° and see if this fix the issue.

Otherwise it might be damaged to much and you need a new one,
(Which is tough to get)

 

[architekt]

Just to make sure i get everything right before trying that:

Be aware that these hyrtels have a tiny lip at the inside (direction to the retaining ring) which is hard to recognize sometimes.

I see no lip going to the retaining ring (shamelessly stealing that picture from KF2020s Thread )

It seems pretty much flat but doesn't show any direct signs of damage or where a lip would be sheared off.
If anything it just has a little angle like this:

Like previously stated, based on the distance from the metal lip on the case to the 3pins and the hytrel ring I think that angle should be going in the different direction?

 

[Tekumseh]

That's really hard to identity sometimes,
even because there are a lot of differences between the fabrics, which aren't obvious.
Plus it's possible that you damaged the ring at first place

Another sample about differences
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/9515190-zzf-v2-bezel-not-flush

The man with the most experience with this is kj2020

 

[architekt]

So I took out the hytrel ring and put it back it reversed (turned 180°), now the angle is facing in the other direction and when I try to put the bezel back on the case there is a quite noticeable resistance (I guess the hytrel ring pressing against the metal lip of the case before it goes over it) but I can't mount it with regular "hand pressure".

Altough it feels like I'm heading in the right direction I'm kinda afraid of breaking something therefore I have to ask how much force can/should I use?
How much force is usualy needed? Should it just go on with a nice little pop or does it need real pressing?

 

[architekt]

Oh and I found a "stairstep" when taking out the hytrel ring!

to make visualize it a little better:

Beforehand it had the angle facing down/inward (the upper side of the hytrel ring was pretty much flush with the bezel ring).
When i took the hytrel ring out i saw it had the staircase pattern on the outer side and the thinner side was facing downwards.

After mounting it again but 180° rotated the hytrel fits nicely into the bezel (like before) but now the outside stair is facing up and there the every so slight angle of the hytrel creates a lip on the upper side where previously it was sitting flush on the bezel ring.

Holding the Bezel right beside the case the upper edge of that lip created by the hytrel ring seems to be on the exact position where the case has the "counter" lip so I think I'm going in the right direction?

 

[KJ2020]

Oh and I found a "stairstep" when taking out the hytrel ring!

to make visualize it a little better:

Beforehand it had the angle facing down/inward (the upper side of the hytrel ring was pretty much flush with the bezel ring).
When i took the hytrel ring out i saw it had the staircase pattern on the outer side and the thinner side was facing downwards.

After mounting it again but 180° rotated the hytrel fits nicely into the bezel (like before) but now the outside stair is facing up and there the every so slight angle of the hytrel creates a lip on the upper side where previously it was sitting flush on the bezel ring.

Holding the Bezel right beside the case the upper edge of that lip created by the hytrel ring seems to be on the exact position where the case has the "counter" lip so I think I'm going in the right direction?

I would be tempted to try pressing the bezel with the hytrel ring in the 'After' position as you depicted above. A bezel should not be able to be just pulled off like yours was. From your excellent diagrams, logically the hytrel ring should be oriented like the 'After' depiction. That orientation would allow the bezel with installed hytrel ring to more easily slip over the crystal retaining lip, and also make it more difficult to remove it which is what is needed. I think in the 'Before' orientation, the opposite is happening - it's easier to slide up and over the crystal retaining ring lip to lift it off.

Most often a bezel needs the added force of a crystal press with a die to be re-seated on a case. Extra care needs to be exercised when doing this if the insert is not removed first. With the insert installed, a die should be used that contacts the bezel rim only and misses the insert completely. Sometimes a die needs to be custom trimmed (rim made thinner, inside hollowed out) to do this. Pressing the bezel with a press and a die is way easier with the insert removed but removing and re-installing the insert is extra work that in itself is slightly involved and also carries risk of cracking the insert.

Here are some other links showing ceramic insert removals

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/9515190-zzf-v2-bezel-not-flush

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/modification-repairs/8689930-ceramic-insert-removal-guide

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/tutorials/8205882-removing-and-installing-ceramic-inserts

if your watch has a bezel tension ring under the 3 pin click ring, you could try removing that and repress the bezel in the 'Before' orientation. Those are really just spacers that may or may not be beneficial. I've added or removed them several times to make a bezel work properly, sometimes using more than one.

You can install the bezel with the 3 pin click ring on the bezel or on the case. I prefer it on the case first.

One last caution - it's possible to force a bezel onto a case with the hytrel ring in the wrong orientation or caught out of its groove, and when the bezel gets seated it won't rotate or worse it won't come back off. This can be fixed but it's complicated - the hytrel ring has to be melted away but let's not go there yet, lol.

 

[TYL88]

architekt did u succeed in installing the hytrel ring in the "after position" in your diagram?

​​​​​​My bezel ring is also easily removed by hand. Im wondering if this is the cause.

Thanks!

 

[architekt]

architekt did u succeed in installing the hytrel ring in the "after position" in your diagram?

​​​​​​My bezel ring is also easily removed by hand. Im wondering if this is the cause.

Thanks!

Unfortunately I was not able to assemble it with the ring swapped.
I sold the watch in the end.

 

[TYL88]

Ah okay thanks!

 

[equilibr1um]

Not to necro this thread, but I had the same loose bezel issue on my Clean factory GMT, bezel/hytrel gasket was flipped in the 'before' position shown above. Flipped it to the 'after' with the fatter part on top to catch the hytrel lip and popped it back on with a little extra pressure. Clicked right into place and it fits way better now. Doesn't feel like I can even pop it back off with my fingers now.