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Horology history and the oldest watch brands

suffolkdiver

Anyone got any heliox ?
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Interesting reading Feefo and this was news from post 60.

"The Chinese watch market collapsed around 1855 due to competition from France and the United States along with the tremendous number of Chinese-made counterfeits. By 1864 problems caused by the Opium War caused the Bovet family to sell their interest in the company."


So the reps are new thing from China.
 

Feefo

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Some notes on the oldest watch brands – Carl Suchy & Söhne 1822

200 years ago, there was only one address for Austrian luxury watches. Carl Suchy & Söhne, the Imperial and Royal Court supplier stood for the highest quality, precision and elegance. Aristocrats, artists, industrialists and even Austria's Emperor Franz Joseph I were among the regular customers of this internationally sought-after watchmaker.

Carl Suchy (1796 - 1866), born in Prague, made the most important decision of his life at an early age. He learned the watchmaker's trade at Franz Lehner's, a watchmaker specialized in longcase/table clocks, fulfilling his apprenticeship in 1812. After some subordinate jobs and seven years of traveling in Germany, he returned to Prague and opened his own little watchmaking business in 1822.



Suchy was successful and expanded his business in 1838, employing 35 assistants. At the same time as the longcase clocks, he also began to produce pendulum clocks. Suchy was known for his reciseness and severity (= he was a micromanager). Every movement completed by an assistant had to be submitted to him for inspection and only then was the company stamp stamped on it.

In recognition of his work, Suchy was qualified as imperial/royal clock supplier, and this was soon followed by the award of the k.u.k. (kaiserlicher und königlicher = imperial and royal) Purveyor to the Court. He was also honored at exhibitions. However, Suchy was not only successful in technical terms, but also commercially. He found customers at the annual Leipzig trade fair in particular, where he acquired clients for the coveted Parisian clocks. Suchy chose his own trade as a profession for his four sons Carl Suchy, Hans Suchy, Hans Johann Anton and Emanuel Suchy. He recruited the famous Bohemian watchmaker Josef Kosek as their master.

In 1845, after completing their apprenticeships, the two eldest sons began their years of travel in Switzerland, where they visited the best watchmakers of the time. After their return, they joined their father's business in 1849, which was renamed Carl Suchy & Söhne. The eldest son Carl Suchy Jr. soon moved back to Switzerland and settled there. In 1853, he founded a factory for pocket watches in La Chaux-de-Fonds, which soon developed well and not only supplied the parent company with pocket watches, but also found sales for its watches in England. The second son, Hans, founded a branch at Rotenturmstrasse 6 in Vienna in 1863. All three businesses operated under the name Carl Suchy & Söhne.

Carl Suchy Sr. died in 1866 at the age of 70. After his death, the youngest son Emanuel Suchy joined the Prague business, after the third son Johann Anton had already worked there. As owner of the business in Prague, Johann Anton was awarded the title of purveyor to the imperial and royal court.



All four of Carl Suchy's sons died before 1898. Although the Prague business still existed under the same company name and had a good reputation, it was no longer owned by the family. Adolph Červinka, as the owner of Carl Suchy & Söhne in Prague, was appointed purveyor to the Imperial and Royal court. However, the Viennese branch in Rotenturmstraße was still owned by the family. After Hans Suchy's death, his widow Therese took over the business, with her son Alfred Suchy as managing director.

With the end of the Danube Monarchy in 1918, the clockmakers' trail also faded.

In 2017, Carl Suchy & Söhne was brought back to life by the Austrian art and design expert Robert Punkenhofer.

Suchy's watches today retail from around 8k to 30k for the gold version. They also do a couple of tableclocks in the 50k range. The design language is essential and modern, taking inspiration more from the Viennese Modernism than from the Imperial pomp.

 
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Dave2302

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That fella Sohne gets about a bit in partnership with lots of different watchmakers 🙃

Heather Dubrow Ok GIF
 
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Dave2302

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LOL, I was just being a dick, it's like A Lange and Sohne, Albert Steptoe and Sohne ..................

Just thought I'd give you a giggle, I'll delete these 2 if you want me too, hindsight and all that it is cluttering your beautiful thread ;)

Sorry Shame GIF by reactionseditor
 

Feefo

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LOL, I was just being a dick, it's like A Lange and Sohne, Albert Steptoe and Sohne ..................

Just thought I'd give you a giggle, I'll delete these 2 if you want me too, hindsight and all that it is cluttering your beautiful thread ;)

Sorry Shame GIF by reactionseditor
Sorry, I was being thick!
 
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Dave2302

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I've also honestly been up almost all night writing to solicitors and accountants and dealing with them is painful, (re Mel and my retirement plans / sales I mentioned to you) ;)
 
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deaded

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I love these installments Feefo, please keep 'em coming!! So much information, and so many beautiful watches that I didn't even know existed.
Thanks!! 😍
 
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Feefo

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I love these installments Feefo, please keep 'em coming!! So much information, and so many beautiful watches that I didn't even know existed.
Thanks!! 😍
I'll continue for sure, not even a quarter through the list. I enjoy "studying" myself and discovering little pearls along the way, find out "hey, that's where that model took inspiration!". It's fun and putting it down is better for the memory ;) . I have to repeat, very little is elaborated by myself, most is a patchwork of copy-paste's from different sources.
 

Feefo

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Some notes on the oldest watch brands – Kienzle 1822

The history of Kienzle is a history of industrial production and not watchmaking. Kienzle watches have no soul, they’re a mere product, commercialized in the same way peddlers roamed the countryside in a truck to sell cheap household goods to farmers. As puny as it sounds, this made Kienzle one of the biggest watch manufacturers of its time, but at the same time it relegates them today to the pre-check-out cash register baskets in supermarket discounters.

The company later known as Kienzle has its origins in a company founded in 1822 by Johannes Schlenker in Schwenningen in southern Germany - this also explains the addition “1822” on the dial of watches that are manufactured under the Kienzle license today. This is in the beginning years of watch production in the Black Forest (e.g. Junghans).

However, the name Kienzle was not actually adopted until 1883, when Jakob Kienzle married into the family and became a partner in the company, which from then on traded as “Schlenker & Kienzle”. At that time, the company employed around 20 people and produced around 20,000 wall and table clocks annually. Jakob Kienzle became the sole owner of the company in 1897 and renamed it “Kienzle Uhrenfabrik” in 1919.



At the beginning of the 20th century, Kienzle was able to fully streamline production for efficiency and mass production, similar to what the Waterbury Clock Company (Timex) was doing in the USA at the time. Modern manufacturing approaches led to an enormous expansion, with production already exceeding 1 million watches in 1903, manufactured by several hundred employees.

By 1939, Kienzle employed over 3,500 people with an output of 5 million wall and table clocks per year. The company also had a strong position in the field of clocks for luxury car dashboards, particularly for brands such as Rolls Royce and Bentley. Later, Kienzle’s clients will get more: Jaguar, Daimler, BMW, Volvo, Audi, Renault, Ford and Opel will all mount Kienzle clocks. Taximeters and tachographers also are part of Kienzle’s line of products.

Another Kienzle milestone at the time was the Kienzle “Strapazieruhr” (“strain wristwatch), launched in 1931, which - as the name clearly suggests - was intended to be particularly robust. The Strapazier watches were produced in the millions for at least 30 years.



In the 1920s and 1930s, Kienzle already operated a subsidiary in Milan, which was involved in the manufacture of watch cases, the assembly of movements and the distribution of products on the Italian market. This was founded in 1933 as SIOK (Società Italiana Orologi Kienzle) and managed by the Weyler brothers. The two had previously worked in Schwenningen, but the war forced the parent company to close the Italian branch. After the war, the Italian company was rescued by the Weyler brothers, who gradually switched production to wristwatches.
In 1936 Kienzle refurbished busses to showcase their products in different cities, pretty much like a travelling peddler.



The Kienzle caliber 057/21d, the so-called Volksautomatic, came onto the market in the mid-1950s and was the only in-house automatic movement from the Schwenningen watch factory.

In contrast to the hand-wound models from Kienzle, models with the comparatively high-quality Volksautomatic caliber were around three times as expensive, with a selling price of DM 65 at the time. Due to their higher price positioning, the models lay like lead in the shop windows and were removed from the range as early as 1963.



In the 1960s and 1970s, Kienzle became the market leader in Germany in terms of unit sales - with technically exciting in-house developments in the solar and quartz sectors. Nevertheless, Kienzle watches were mass-produced, cheap and were sold at gas stations, among other places. There has always been a lack of strong brand values.



With Kienzle-Swiss, an attempt was also made in a similar period to establish a higher-quality line.



In 1969 Kienzle talks about 25.000 watches being produced daily in 6 different factories, 9 million units per year. Every fourth sold watch in Germany is a Kienzle. But sales were made worldwide, even in the Quartz stronghold Japan.

In 1973, the serial production of the large quartz movement 713 begins. It is the first movement to have all the features that large quartz clock movements manufactured worldwide have today, the 180 degree bipolar converter (clock drive) and the fixed adjustment. KIENZLE has thus placed itself at the technological forefront of “large quartz watch movement manufacturers”.

They did play with the design in an attempt to provide a “different” digital watch.



Kienzle's marketing was still on the cheaper side though....



Nevertheless, it had to come as it had to come: Kienzle - like so many other watch manufacturers - got into difficulties as a result of the quartz crisis and price pressure from the Far East (especially Japan): in 1989, Kienzle Uhrenfabrik was taken over by DUFA (Deutsche Uhrenfabrik). In 1996, the company goes bankrupt.

Just one year later, the worldwide brand rights were sold to the Highway Holdings Group from Hong Kong for 1 million Deutschmarks. The owner: Roland Kohl, an emigrated Swabian. Together with another businessman, Kohl decided to produce watches bearing the Kienzle logo in Asia for the German market. Sales were impressive: Within two years, 750,000 watches were sold.

Kienzle AG was taken over by a German investor in 2006 - this was followed (unsurprisingly) by a strategic realignment and a new head office, which was not located in Villingen-Schwenningen, the former headquarters of the watch manufacturer, but in Hamburg. Even higher-quality mechanical watches were built again. The most expensive model in the “Jakob Kienzle Edition” series: a €18,900 timepiece with a perpetual calendar. Target market: the Gulf region and Asia in particular. In economic terms, Kienzle AG's goal was to exceed the €100 million turnover threshold within three to five years.



Investors speculated that good money could be made by reviving old and familiar brands - as shown by examples such as the VW Beetle. The companies are banking on the positive memories of older consumers, but a historically charged brand story also goes down well with younger consumers. In any case, the plans were quite optimistic: Breyer, CEO of Kienzle AG, was even planning his own factory. The idea was to take over a factory in East Germany (Glashütte?), and plan B was to set up the company's own factory. Company boss Breyer expected 120 to 300 employees and saw potential success on the basis of “fantastic margins” in the watch market with “trade margins up to a factor of six and more”.

Long story short: this attempt at a fresh start was not crowned with success either: just four years later, in 2010, another insolvency followed - according to research by the Schweizer Handelszeitung, this had already happened to a number of companies from the German investor's portfolio.

In the year before the Kienzle insolvency, the brand was transferred to a Swiss company, Rooster Holding from Meggen. While a new Kienzle was being created in Switzerland, even with a distribution company in Hamburg, the insolvency proceedings of the old Kienzle from Hamburg were still ongoing and the creditors were waiting for their money.

For many years, the Kienzle brand lay dormant at Premier Trademarks, a subsidiary of the Independent Watch Group. Status with regard to the trademark register: Cancellation due to non-renewal.

And today? Kienzle wristwatches can be found in Aldi “rummage tables”, advertised with a whopping 74% discount (reduced from just under €80 list price to €20). Bargain alert?



The watches are advertised with the addition “1822”, and the dial also reads “Established in Germany” (in reference to “Made in Germany”), in each case as an allusion to the history of Kienzle. Unsurprisingly, the Kienzle watches at Aldi have absolutely nothing to do with the former Kienzle company: As you can immediately see from the case back, the watch comes from the trading company Krippls-Electronics GmbH in Wels, Austria.
Starting from the import/export business, Krippl has, according to its own statements, increasingly focused on building up a brand portfolio - and Kienzle is obviously one of the brands that the Austrians have licensed.

Now, of course, you could say that Kienzle has always been the cheapest of the German manufacturers (apart from some less successful stints such as “Kienzle Swiss” or “Jakob Kienzle Edition”). It could therefore be argued that selling cheap Kienzle watches through a discounter like Aldi is actually a very good fit. Because, of course, not all consumers attach much importance to history and a higher-quality mechanical inner workings. They simply want a cheap watch that looks good. Period. As you can imagine, the quality of these watches is the lowest of the low.

Nevertheless, as cheap as they are you gotta give some credit where credit is due. The old /original Kienzle did reach market dominance thanks to mass production and a few technological advancements in the digital era (quartz, solar, atomic watches, etc.).