Help or advice needed on a DOA watch with wrongly supplied movement?

[templeton]

I'm glad that more and more people are finally calling dealers out on this...in some cases paying $300+ thinking they were getting the 'standard' Asian ETA clone, only to get these cheap things.

I try not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I've never bought the argument that this was all the H Factory trying to pull one over on the whole world. When you boil it down there can only be two possible outcomes...

1) All this time H Factory has been ripping off every dealer in China by supplying them with these inferior high beat movements at 'regular' ETA clone prices, and not one of them ever caught on even after repeated red flags being raised here over the past year.

2) The dealers don't pay ETA clone prices to the factory, yet still charge the ETA clone prices to us.

I'm admittedly dubious of #1.

 

[Luthier]

And you're wrong. As far, as I know, H-factory representatives, who sell watches to our dealers, are extremely arrogant, they don't take watches back, they don't allow dealers to open case backs, they just do not open the door to a dealer, who annoyed them with questions about quality or movements.

 

[SUMIKITO]

After reading all these, so now, who can we "Trust" ? The only ones making money on these are those who sell it. Those who knowingly know what's inside those watches. Because they get it at a much lower price. a factory offering a dealer a watch at a lower price and the dealer not asking "Hey that's a really good price Bud, so whats going on ? Looks the same as the ones I got before from you Bud, at a higher cost" and not getting the reason why its so cheap is something I wont believe. "You are gonna make more money on this Bud, so stop asking me whats inside it Bud." Every dealer worth his salt should know what is in there. Come on now, we are supposed to trust every single TD here. Hard to play dumb nowadays. Just say "what it is". And not call it any other way. The truth has a way of prevailing in the end. Full disclosure is the only way to earn AND maintain TRUST. On anything............and everything.

 

[TimeWillTell]

Ok, I would like to update the description. It is more than a 25J watch. If somebody would put a pic you will see the difference.

i think you should just add this crappy shitty 2836 lookalike <<<<<<< just kidding! if i were you i don't know what to write..

My last message to you daz8161, after i received the watch i will refund you the watch. I will not wish to spend anymore time on this watch...

So am I hearing this correctly? You told me to send the watch back so you can replace it with the correct version with a 2836 eta clone movement, I send it back to you and now you're saying as soon as you received it you are going to refund me instead of replacing it? Either way I don't mind but why say you will exchange it then say you will just refund instead?

yes you are daz, i'm offering refund to cut this whole episode off once and for all. You were once my valued client, but after what had happened despite i had explained to you about this watch. And eventually i found out from fellow dealers indeed it was supplied with the "real" silver plated 2836 before BUT at a lot higher price. Seems like you cannot accept this, so better is i refund you after the watch arrived. It's no magic, or special deals/pricing for us with the maker/wholesaler...

I even told you the cost of it, and profit we made. daz, i'm upset and disappointed even i have explained to you and help you bring this watch over to singapore to ship it to you. (you told me you preferred shipping from singapore than in china) We work very hard but to resort to this, was very disheartening. This is why i initially proposed to "upgrade" the movement in your breitling, and make it right to you.

After sometime of considering, i think refund would be the better for the both of us. As you have your expectation for this watch, and we are sorry we can't deliver and regret to loose you as a customer.

For this matter, i blamed it on myself. Like i said in my previous reply, i wouldn't have help you get this watch if i knew about the movement. Look at the trouble i go thru to get you this watch, and your QC photos requirement : Close up dial, lume shots, case back and movement photos. And yes, you also reminded me on the dial and hands, they must be Perfect. You specifically told me the markers must be dirt free, Perfect as can be. I returned this watch twice for exchange to get the Perfect breitling for you, than hand carry it back to singapore and mail it to uk for you..

So the description on my website is right? I got some questions that I´m not sure how to answer
http://www.torobravos2013.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_42&product_id=656

imo, it is correct for the price. Movement performing as per specs, and looking like a 2836 didn't it?

Toro, I'm not telling you what to do but if you know its a crap watch why even bother selling it.

all reps are crap if anyone asked me...no offense to anyone here.

Because refunding you is much easier daz.

As it has been communicated that both are unfamiliar with the movement and the hands might not fit, which means more time needed to source for them and at the present moment, none of these watches has a 2836 which again means there might not be any set that's readily available. The process might be long and delayed so I believe a straight refund would be a better and speedy solution to this situation.

And since you wouldn't mind, let's leave it as final. Will you both please update co-axial once refund and watch has been received respectively.

thank you tt88, you read my mind!

If you call it "New Breed 25 Jewel Movement" I think it will end confusion.

Lol, good suggestion..

I'm glad that more and more people are finally calling dealers out on this...in some cases paying $300+ thinking they were getting the 'standard' Asian ETA clone, only to get these cheap things.

I try not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I've never bought the argument that this was all the H Factory trying to pull one over on the whole world. When you boil it down there can only be two possible outcomes...

1) All this time H Factory has been ripping off every dealer in China by supplying them with these inferior high beat movements at 'regular' ETA clone prices, and not one of them ever caught on even after repeated red flags being raised here over the past year.

2) The dealers don't pay ETA clone prices to the factory, yet still charge the ETA clone prices to us.

I'm admittedly dubious of #1.

did you missed the price? it is advertised at 208 dollars on most TD websites. Ripped off? no, not imo. Yes if it is sold for 288 dollars..i say ripped of!

But it´s not only asian 25j only, is more than that. The simple asian have plastic insert and movement looks really poor. Not sure how to call this..

yes, like i seen them in some subs and mark 16 they have plastic insets on the movement...and they look more simpler in design.

The movement is not a 2836-2 clone. "Clone" means "the same". Most of us are familiar with actual Asian clones. This new movement is completely different from a 2836-2. Even the datewheel won't transfer over. And it's clearly very poorly made. Watchmakers don't have the spare parts or experience to work on it.

For a trusted dealer like Toro to advertise the watch with a 2836-2 clone is false, and at best misleading. I was duped. Those of us who have the tools to open up the watch have discovered this nasty little surprise. It's commendable that Toro has offered me a full refund.

But plenty of noobs are being mislead into buying a nice looking watch with an inferior movement, that will leave them without a good option when it (soon) comes time to repair.

No trusted dealer should make false claims about a movement. Toro and other dealers need to update their websites and product descriptions to avoid misleading their buyers.

i liked the way you had defined the word cloned. So it didn't look and perform like a "real" 2836?

And you're wrong. As far, as I know, H-factory representatives, who sell watches to our dealers, are extremely arrogant, they don't take watches back, they don't allow dealers to open case backs, they just do not open the door to a dealer, who annoyed them with questions about quality or movements.

yes Luth, plus we just buy so little from them and been so picky...sure they will pull a long face seeing us which i totally understand. You know, they supply to other provinces in bulk quantities with no such things like QC photos...Lol

 

[sub4me]

all reps are crap if anyone asked me...no offense to anyone here.

LOL, I agree and I respect you for saying that. There's not a lot of dealers who would be honest enough to say so (although I have been told this privately by dealers).

We've all heard the term super rep, best ever made, made from genuine and on and on. Were not dealing with the low quality street level shit in most cases here (however some do sell them) but people fail to realize perhaps even fooling themselves that these watches aren't made for quality purposes. It's all about the look, the appearance of being gen, the ability to have a brand name without paying the premium for it.

We can discuss for endless hours how the makers of these watches cut corners to make profits because that's what its all about. Right down to the clone movements. If the makers wanted to use all high quality parts and movements they would, and easily could if that was the goal, but it's not. The goal is to make a good enough watch, a watch to sell over and over again to make profits and move large volumes of watches.

I know everyone has a different idea of what they think is a reasonable price to pay for their conceived best rep but the prices being asked compared to the quality received is way off. If your gonna pay $100 to say $300, fine have fun with your rep, but when were talking about reps over that amount there is just no common sense left in the equation to purchase the rep when much better quality watches are easily available.

 

[jerkstore]

i liked the way you had defined the word cloned. So it didn't look and perform like a "real" 2836?[\QUOTE]

Glad you like my definition. This new movement has virtually nothing in common with an ETA 2836-2, eg, the keyless works are different, the stem is different, the datewheel is different, the datewheel drive mechanism is different, the hour pinion size is different, etc. Even the method this movement uses to fix the dial in place is different.

That is, this new movement is a clone of the ETA 2836-2 in the same sense that a Yugo is a clone of a BMW. They are both cars, and these are both movements. And one of them really sucks.

Trusted dealers and vendors who persist in calling these movements clones are deceiving their customers.

 

[Luthier]

This is DG-2813-2S, hi-beat, $10 movement from Guangzhou Dixmont factory. I'll try to get more info on this engine after CNY.

 

[ShiroTenshi]

love to hear more on this movement

 

[Billio]

Is it usual for a return to china to take over 5 weeks? Bare in mind it was posted during the CNY but seems a very long time?

 

[carlton]

Nothing unusual lately as recently mails into China would end up stuck in their post office for quite sometimes before it is delivered. In my past experience, it will only takes around 2 weeks from the time I sent to have it delivered but my last 2 return end up taking a month with 1 even return back to me without any attempt delivery and both these case happen few months before CNY.

 

[Subjeff]

Daz,
There is no way I would send a watch back to China. Just too many things to go wrong. I would buy a new movement or off the watch for parts and cut my losses. Just my thoughts.

 

[cybee]

And NO I do NOT know it is a modified movement. I'm not trained watch maker, Another thing i like to say here, we cannot open case backs of watches at wholesaler's office to examine or photo. It is an office for me/runner to pick up watches and payment. We don't sit around and wait for the IP come knocking on the door and we have to climb thru windows to get away, remember this is replica product.

all reps are crap if anyone asked me...no offense to anyone here.

Now that's what I call brutal honesty from a dealer...worth a gazillion rep points.

 

[egroegart]

I had a situation along the same lines although my watch is still working fine. Waiting and waiting on the new version Explorer II to come out my Td tells me that there is a new 3187 clone movement out and he has it. So hastily I jumped on it, thinking I would be one of the first ones to own this movement so I could do some reviews for you guys. I was super excited. My review of this watch is here http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=172469 I do have to say that the watch has ran great, but that's about it. the datewheel doesn't turn completely when changing over. there are several flaws which were not on my original 2836 explorer II. 2 markers are crooked and both do not sit flat. The dial is turned, off center. the bezel has the wrong font. and has the clasp issue. but I overlooked those because it's a rep and I'm not complaining to the td about it. but I've learned my lesson.

My first explorer II was perfect in every way shape and form. Not a flaw that I could find. But what I'm most upset with is the fact that this movement is not a clone 3187. Not in the slightest way. All the gears are in different places, it's just not a clone whatsoever of the 3187. I was also expecting being a new clone of this movement to have the chs. which it doesn't.

Should the watch I got be advertised as a clone 3187? absolutely not. not even close. I actually do wish that it would have been doa because I would have returned it and then waited on the 2836 new version to come out. and not to mention the price on this new clone 3187 is $100 more than the 2836 version. I just decided that I was going to keep the watch and fix things on it as I can afford it. the datewheel issue is an easy fix as well as some other things, but is definitely not advertised like it should be and way over priced in my mind. I understand your frustrations, when you're expecting to get one thing and you get something else that is inferior to what you thought you were getting.

Do I blame my TD? no. I don't think he knew at all. He has no reason to lie to me and I'm a good customer of his and every watch I've gotten from him has been outstanding to this point, so I'm happy and feel lucky for that. and realize that in this game to expect some bumps along the way.

But the one thing I've gotten out of this is the hope that we can get the TD's to advertise what they are selling accurately. and I've learned to be much more careful on my next purchase to make sure what I am getting.

 

[sub4me]

eggroll, dealers have been lying about watches, movements, and alot of things for a very long time, its really nothing new.

 

[egroegart]

Oh, I know. and I've seen it, but I guess it was just the first time it's happened to me in this sense. I'm usually quite aware when I'm buying, but had blinders on with this one. lol.

 

[sub4me]

You if knew the shit that used to go on you be shocked, maybe, LOL.

 

[TESLA760]

This crap is still going ? Smash that watch with a freaking hammer and move on with your life.

 

[egroegart]

LOL. Sometimes I would like to smash this watch.

 

[fpharryc]

I wouldn't do that. A nice clone 2836 is a $60 "investment".

Yank the junk, put a new Tingjing 2836 in. Beats arguing further about how crappy H factory is.

Daz and John should just shake hands and be good firiends. Neither of you intentionally raises hell.

It's a gentlemens' game. H factory is the ultimate trouble maker. They won, both of you lost.

However it is a valuable lesson for all of us.

 

[bradj]

So I had an broken stem on a SOSF that I bought with ETA clone. I guess I have the same not clone eta movement?