Davidsen Pam 082 Just Arrived!

[dkq]

Lume Job

Well I finally figured out how to post a pic, now I have to take a good one. Here is a lume shot of my davidsen 082 after a minute or two of charging by a light bulb. Iwill try to get some more pics tomorrow.

 

[panman8888]

no difference

They both look the same to me - VERY BAD! The numbers and markers look terrible.

This dial needs help in terms of quality control.

take a closer look

Davidsens:

Un-named person who recieved an 82:

Look closely at the 12 o'clock markers, the second hand lume markers and over all the hr markers.

The second picture clearly shows a difference. I do not want to make any confusion here...I just see the difference in quality right away.

 

[qt11]

That is the end result after 3 mins of charging

look at the background surface that the watch has been placed on, its quite grainy.... this shot is a timed exposure, collecting as much light as possible...

unfortunately, its not very realistic of the actual lume of the watch....

the quailty of the dials that have been posted are very poor. This could hav been such a fantastic piece, however unfortuantely so many people are disapointed....

 

[bigbadbrad]

Just got my 082

-

OK, I am at work - not much time.

Quick obs:

* dial finish looks great = satiny
* lug thread stiff but screws went back in OK - whew! But I won't be changing straps too often - DSN has this covered, if you desire to, use the shipped springbars
* case looks very good / engraving impressive in its veracity
* lume - charged for 3 - 4 mins, then to a darkened room, as it happens, also rec'vd my Seiko Orange Monster today ... so I could compare them (brighteness, not thickness of indices)

Result: IMO, and I have most of my watches superlumed after receipt, this lume is not as bright as it should be IF it were gen C3.
Yes,it is 'lumed, and yes it is brighter than it was on older rep - some improvement - I think I have to do a practical comparion w/ one of my superlumed dials (195) and the 082, but it appears less luminscent

* Colour? To my eye a cream + green hue

* dial numerals / indices - IMO these need to be better, some are OK, but enough of them, the '6', '3' and the 40 min index, appear to be off the prepared 'lume template (not sure this is the right word). Some extra QC could be helpful here.

I have a good macro lens - when I can I will post some close-ups.

Now, I am OK about this - as my main concern is the dial. I get mine 'lumed etc anyway - this one will be re-done as I am a perfectionist. To get a 082 for < $500 is a bloody bargain.

Yes, I know some will be upset and withdraw or not buy - it's your prerogative.

I want(ed) this watch, it's damn close, and can be rectified. I expect DSN will also implement some more QC on 'lume painting.

Not that long ago a rep like this - w/ en engraved back - was a pipe dream. For < 5% of the gen's price, even after getting extra work done, I will have a damn fine piece that I know I'll enjoy. Maybe our expectations - of reps, at the price - have become too elevated??

That's my bottom line.

[smilie=occasion14.gif]

-- BBB

 

[watchlover]

Re: Just got my 082

Also at work, not much time too.

Okay, so the gen is US$7000~US$8000

This is correct. I checked in timezone and some guy is selling his last november for around this price.

Now, let's say perfectionist me, wants to buy a rep of a VConstantine that costs 2% of the original USD 120,000 price tag

0.02 x USD 120,000 = USD 2400

And it has bad rep lume compared to the original, a messed up crown job, stuck lug screws, and it needs an extra US$200 to send out to get right....

Sorry, but that does NOT sound like a steal to me... it sounds like perfectionist me is getting ROBBED


BTW, my Seiko Black Monster costs me roughly USD 150, and it has an excellent lume job,
excellent build quality,
and a depth rating of 300m with full international warranty

everything is AS ADVERTISED by Seikosha Ltd. Very nice.


Tell us Brad, what are your expectations of a 0.05 * US$8000 = US$400 dollar watch are?

Doesn't matter if it's a rep or not... what do you expect of a US$ 400 dollar watch?

just let us know, and maybe we all need to re-set our expectations.

-

OK, I am at work - not much time.

Quick obs:

* dial finish looks great = satiny
* lug thread stiff but screws went back in OK - whew! But I won't be changing straps too often - DSN has this covered, if you desire to, use the shipped springbars
* case looks very good

* lume - charged for 3 - 4 mins, then to a darkened room, as it happens, also rec'vd my Seiko Orange Monster today ...
Result: IMO, and I have most of my watches superlumed after receipt, this lume is not as bright as it should be IF it were gen C3.

Yes,it is 'lumed, and yes it is brighter than it was on older rep - some improvement - I think I have to do a practical comparion w/ one of my superlumed dials (195) and the 082, but it appears less luminscent

Colour? To my eye a cream + green hue

* dial numerals / indices - IMO these need to be better, some are OK, but enough of them, the '6', '3' and the 40 min index, appear to be off the prepared 'lume template (not sure this is the right word). Some extra QC could be helpful here.

I have a good macro lens - when I can I will post some close-ups.

Now, I am OK about this - as my main concern is the dial. I get mine 'lumed etc anyway - this one will be re-done as I am a perfectionist. To get a 082 for < $500 is a bloody bargain.

Yes, I know some will be upset and withdraw or not buy - it's your prerogative.

I want this watch, it's damn close, and can be rectified. I expect DSN will also implement some more QC on 'lume painting.

Not that long ago a rep like this - w/ en engraved back - was a pipe dream. For < 5% of the gen's price, even after getting extra work done, I will have a damn fine piece that I know I'll enjoy. Maybe our expectations - of reps, at the price - have become too elevated??

That's my bottom line.


[smilie=occasion14.gif]

 

[hk45ca]

i was thinking the same thing. my orange monster shipped was 119.22 and it is brand new, perfect and you already know it glows like a flash light.
edit
oops, i listed the price 80.00 too high. lol, i was in a hurry.

 

[bigbadbrad]

Monster not = to hand produced reps

i was thinking the same thing. my orange monster shipped was 199.22 and it is brand new, perfect and you already know it glows like a flash light.

All due respect to you mate and watchlover, but these are not strictly comparable.

This is where the economist in me comes to the fore.

One is a bespoke watch that has a more labor intensive manufacture. No mass assembly line for scale = costs are higher per unit. Hand painting, hence the QC "variance". It's bit akin to comping a Morgan hand-made Brit car w/ a Toyota. The Toyota's fit and finish are actually better than a Morgan's, or a Lotus's, for e.g.

But the guys buying the Lotus or Morgan buy them for character, not panel fit, nor carpets that will last for 10 years and not fade....

The Monster is a great mass-produced workaday diver's watch. I have mine as a beater, like my old Diver's, for when I go diving etc - jagged reef here I come. D'ya think I'm planning to use my 082 like this, or have the same expectations?

I wouldn't even have the same expectation for a gen PAM.

So, yes, my expectations are LOWER for a hand produced rep. When it comes to large-scale mass-produced items w/ workstation assembly, roboticized JITM inventory mgmt etc (= higher QC) my expectations are in fact higher. Marginal costs are also lower for Seiko based on their scale and methods. That's why they are great value!

BUT, I do NOT think the lume stacks up to the representation made - it looks less vibrant than the watches I had C3'd after I received them. So something's gone awry here, and maybe there needs to be a haircut on the price to reflect that.

 

[RqThrottle]

Sorry Brad, but I couldn't disagree with you more. You are wrong on all fronts, but if that's how you want to measure your satisfaction, so be it.

The lume job besides having been applied by a totally unskilled person, it is greenish, and it is not superluminova. My superluminova watches charge in 5 seconds (3 minutes!?) and glow like nobody's business.

Also, that CG fit to the case looks iffy...

 

[Novesh]

watchlover has a good point.

we all have expectations for watchs for a certain price.

when we can get a 177h for under $250, and have the work done to it which makes it modded to hell, price will be around 400 to 450, respectively.

paying, $200 for a rep is pretty average and you expect imperfections. paying 250 to 300 for an "ultimate" you expect less and less imperfections.

if I pay $400 for a rep, I don't expect any imperfections at all, ever.

no shite lume, no stripped lugs, no cg rub issue, nothing. everything needs to be perfect, for that money.

 

[bigbadbrad]

Sorry Brad, but I couldn't disagree with you more. You are wrong on all fronts, but if that's how you want to measure your satisfaction, so be it.

The lume job besides having been applied by a totally unskilled person, it is greenish, and it is not superluminova. My superluminova watches charge in 5 seconds (3 minutes!?) and glow like nobody's business.

Also, that CG fit to the case looks iffy...

Well, it's matter of degree.

Above post I do say

BUT, I do NOT think the lume stacks up to the representation made - it looks less vibrant than the watches I had C3'd after I received them. So something's gone awry here, and maybe there needs to be a haircut on the price to reflect that." - emphases added

I agree that for the money one should expect it to stack as represented. I just have lower expectation re the lume than you & ^ . I still view reps out of CN as cheap (relative terms!) imitations of the real thing. And even at $350-ish the fact remains that these are reps using flawed manual processes.

I will get mine re-done and have got it for USD 500 - and for me, not speaking for anyone else, I think that's a deal.

The lug issue WOULD be huge for me - if I had it. I have sent a a watch back w/ this issue, as I can't readily correct it.

Oh, my CG appears to be OK

 

[RqThrottle]

Fair enough

I still think the item description should be revised to address the lume color/quality/material issue. Those members that do not have access/financial resources to have it professionally relumed are less likely to be as upbeat about it as you are

I agree that for the money one should expect it to stack as represented. I just have lower expectation re the lume than you & ^ . I still view reps out of CN as cheap (relative terms!) imitations of the real thing. And even at $350-ish the fact remains that these are reps using flawed manual processes.

I will get mine re-done and have got it for USD 500 - and for me, not speaking for anyone else, I think that's a deal.

The lug issue WOULD be huge for me - if I had it. I have sent a a watch back w/ this issue, as I can't readily correct it.

Oh, my CG appears to be OK

 

[bigbadbrad]

extra work is a royal pain in the ... no doubt

Fair enough

Those members that do not have access/financial resources to have it professionally relumed are less likely to be as upbeat about it as you are

Agree w/ you 100% on this point. And, frankly, it is a pain in the ar$e to have to deal w/ more shipping/ customs etc - not my preferred outcome.

I do love the 082 colour dial though, and the engraving is better than I expected

 

[rogerwine]

I am really torn on this one. I was really upset yesterday when the watch stopped working and determined to send it back. Well I took off the CG and fiddled with the crown and stem and I was able to get the watch to reengage and it has been working smoothly ever since. I have rewound it and it seems OK now. But I have been wearing it constantly since I got it and I really like it. It is really getting under my skin. As BBB stated there is definately lume on the dial artifacts and if you charge it to the max they will give glow into the night albeit somewhat punky, but I could see them this morning at 5:00am. There is something about the blue dial and the slight tint on the numbers and markers and the dull glint of the titanium case and the matching dark blue strap that I really like. I could see this watch being my cool beater. So maybe I am going to keep it and if Vacuum is willing to take on some of these sausage dials, I just might go the BBB route. I'm going to give it a couple of more days.
Rogerwine

 

[hk45ca]

Re: Monster not = to hand produced reps

i was thinking the same thing. my orange monster shipped was 199.22 and it is brand new, perfect and you already know it glows like a flash light.

All due respect to you mate and watchlover, but these are not strictly comparable.

This is where the economist in me comes to the fore.

One is a bespoke watch that has a more labor intensive manufacture. No mass assembly line for scale = costs are higher per unit. Hand painting, hence the QC "variance". It's bit akin to comping a Morgan hand-made Brit car w/ a Toyota. The Toyota's fit and finish are actually better than a Morgan's, or a Lotus's, for e.g.

But the guys buying the Lotus or Morgan buy them for character, not panel fit, nor carpets that will last for 10 years and not fade....

The Monster is a great mass-produced workaday diver's watch. I have mine as a beater, like my old Diver's, for when I go diving etc - jagged reef here I come. D'ya think I'm planning to use my 082 like this, or have the same expectations?

I wouldn't even have the same expectation for a gen PAM.

So, yes, my expectations are LOWER for a hand produced rep. When it comes to large-scale mass-produced items w/ workstation assembly, roboticized JITM inventory mgmt etc (= higher QC) my expectations are in fact higher. Marginal costs are also lower for Seiko based on their scale and methods. That's why they are great value!

BUT, I do NOT think the lume stacks up to the representation made - it looks less vibrant than the watches I had C3'd after I received them. So something's gone awry here, and maybe there needs to be a haircut on the price to reflect that.

well all i can say is that i have a vc 250 anniversery that was 100.00. everything on it works and looks perfectly and the only flaw is the sheild on the dial and you have to have a loupe to see it, the gen is 27,500.00.

my expectations are higher than yours because there are much better reps out there for much less money.

i have 500.00 tied up in my 195 and it still has the same problem that it did when i bought it and i don't wear it anymore because of it. i had already bought a 200.00 strap for a 082 and as it turns out that was another waste of money because i am not buying another pam with crappy green lume and serious qc issues.

i was going to buy a 111h, 082 and a 177h from him and that is allot of money. those plans have defiantly been scrapped.

with all that said i think it is great that you are happy with your new watch.

wear it well, marc

 

[watchlover]

Re: Monster not = to hand produced reps

I agree with hk45ca. We are talking about value for the money here.

I spent US$300plus on a watch with quality much worse than my 90 dollar rep.

To get it to the same quality level as my 90 dollar rep, I have to spend an extra 100+ship.. What a DEAL!

To each his own. If you think it's a good deal, IT IS A good deal, no matter what others say....


Ahhh those USD$ 950 bux I spent on that Asian Rolex from one of those 'scam sites'...
I USED to think it's a good deal, until I found this forum.


BBB, Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Your perspective might not be the norm, BUT HEY, it's your perspective, your reality.

I can't and won't try to change it.

i was thinking the same thing. my orange monster shipped was 199.22 and it is brand new, perfect and you already know it glows like a flash light.

All due respect to you mate and watchlover, but these are not strictly comparable.

This is where the economist in me comes to the fore.

One is a bespoke watch that has a more labor intensive manufacture. No mass assembly line for scale = costs are higher per unit. Hand painting, hence the QC "variance". It's bit akin to comping a Morgan hand-made Brit car w/ a Toyota. The Toyota's fit and finish are actually better than a Morgan's, or a Lotus's, for e.g.

But the guys buying the Lotus or Morgan buy them for character, not panel fit, nor carpets that will last for 10 years and not fade....

The Monster is a great mass-produced workaday diver's watch. I have mine as a beater, like my old Diver's, for when I go diving etc - jagged reef here I come. D'ya think I'm planning to use my 082 like this, or have the same expectations?

I wouldn't even have the same expectation for a gen PAM.

So, yes, my expectations are LOWER for a hand produced rep. When it comes to large-scale mass-produced items w/ workstation assembly, roboticized JITM inventory mgmt etc (= higher QC) my expectations are in fact higher. Marginal costs are also lower for Seiko based on their scale and methods. That's why they are great value!

BUT, I do NOT think the lume stacks up to the representation made - it looks less vibrant than the watches I had C3'd after I received them. So something's gone awry here, and maybe there needs to be a haircut on the price to reflect that.

well all i can say is that i have a vc 250 anniversery that was 100.00. everything on it works and looks perfectly and the only flaw is the sheild on the dial and you have to have a loupe to see it, the gen is 27,500.00.

my expectations are higher than yours because there are much better reps out there for much less money.

i have 500.00 tied up in my 195 and it still has the same problem that it did when i bought it and i don't wear it anymore because of it. i had already bought a 200.00 strap for a 082 and as it turns out that was another waste of money because i am not buying another pam with crappy green lume and serious qc issues.

i was going to buy a 111h, 082 and a 177h from him and that is allot of money. those plans have defiantly been scrapped.

with all that said i think it is great that you are happy with your new watch.

wear it well, marc

 

[bigbadbrad]

Re: Monster not = to hand produced reps

BBB, Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Your perspective might not be the norm, BUT HEY, it's your perspective, your reality.
I can't and won't try to change it.

I work in the most pure market for 'perspectives' (what I call a 'view') in the world, the financial markets. We like to say that it takes all & many varied views to 'make' a market. This was a buyer can be matched to a seller. In essence, there is no norm - or at least a permanent norm. The norm is the current market clearing price. Maybe the new norm for DSN's 082 is < $370? Leave it to the market to decide.

No value judgements at all, or at least, my "utility function" is different from others, and the price paid will reflect that utility function.

Thanks for your comment!

 

[watchlover]

I agree. the market will decide that price

 

[Aquaracer]

Eventually- I'm like many here- I have already paid for a couple of watches that will arrive at some point- and now of course I'm concerned.

But thanks to forums like this if the people with problem watches are not taken care of, and i watches continue to arrive with faults- we can always vote with our feet.