• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

Calling on 16570 experts

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
Hi, this is so much good info, I contact two different TD and they offer 2 different options on the 16750.

Wonder if you could help to recognize both and see which one is a better option.

Silix
cc2ca229153ec33396d96accd0471eba.jpg


Fat Panda
5b33abd98cb62e298375114419de3ae7.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those will both come from the same place, the BP factory.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sub79

Spelunker

You're Saying I Can Sell?
16/2/21
69
44
0

finally after 2 1/2 months i got my watch back in perfect condition. Domi did a great job refitting the gmt hand and touching up the discolored lume at the 12 hour marker. Like new :)
 

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Okay! Bumping this awesome thread after reading all the threads I could find with info on 16570 and 16710 builds.

I’m about to start my first build - and I’m working off a 16710 Noob case that was modded to take a 3186 movement.

I’ve got a gen 16570 bezel, and a gen crystal as well as what I think is a gen spec crystal gasket. What’s throwing me off is the crystal height. In the pictures below, without any gaskets so the parts are only test fitted, the crystal already sits quite high above the bezel. Is this normal/expected?

In the last photo I have a BP case on the left, which doesn’t have the additional step on the rehaut(?), so the gen crystal that I cannibalized from that build sat flush when it was installed over there. My understanding is that the step is gen spec, and that’s why mods to the hytrel gasket were needed to fit a gen crystal. But for some reason… the gen crystal was just normally fitted to the BP case so I’m extra confused.

I haven’t been able to find a solid side profile shot of a gen so it’s quite difficult to compare:

fa2f4ef88ae72c7d00da4423891b52e3.jpg


6be8cb06e29d4759cafbc068c9acfa0d.jpg


a6194b14cad5013a91a2e695eaed9419.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sukwonee

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
I haven’t been able to find a solid side profile shot of a gen so it’s quite difficult to compare:

fa2f4ef88ae72c7d00da4423891b52e3.jpg

That crystal is sitting way too high bro. It would make your date mag too large. Here is a still from this video of a gen.

https://www.google.com/search?q=165...d=cid:116c75aa,vid:_2n9hq_8W0w,st:0&piu=ps:42

j2YWn3.jpg


I suggest you buy a Clark's crystal with AR cyclops. They are 1.8mm thick (yours is 2.0mm). you get one gasket of your choice with the crystal. I suggest a 2.5mm but also buy a 2.3mm and a 2.7mm so you have options on installation. Extra gaskets are $4, get Gary to make you a special listing so you pay only one shipping charge.

https://www.ebay.com/p/1764854788
 

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
Measure your crystal before ordering a new one if you do. A Clark's is gen-spec which is 29.5mm, measured at the lower step where the gasket fits. That's where the 295 comes from in the part numbers. The upper step is 30.4mm.

You can always flip your gen crystal or use it elsewhere. If it has no cyclops AR a Clark's is a better option anyway IMO. I'm planning on putting a 6 digit gen crystal on my 5 digit gen GMT just for that reason. I care a lot more about great looks than period correctness. YMMV.
 
Last edited:

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
In the last photo I have a BP case on the left, which doesn’t have the additional step on the rehaut(?), so the gen crystal that I cannibalized from that build sat flush when it was installed over there. My understanding is that the step is gen spec, and that’s why mods to the hytrel gasket were needed to fit a gen crystal. But for some reason… the gen crystal was just normally fitted to the BP case so I’m extra confused.

a6194b14cad5013a91a2e695eaed9419.jpg

First of all, a hytrel ring is a bezel gasket that is used in rotating bezels that have ceramic inserts. They are what locks the bezel under the crystal retaining ring lip, and facilitates rotation by providing a slippery medium that has enough resistance to stay put absent external force.

The 16570 does not have a hytrel ring nor a crystal retaining ring. The 16570 bezel acts as the crystal retaining ring, like the bezel does on a Datejust or a Daytona. The gasket all these models use is a crystal gasket.

Zb4THX.jpg


IDK that I've ever seen someone try to convert a Noob 16710 into a 16570, usually it's the other way around. So there may need to be some adjustment (machining) made to the stairstep case protrusion on the Noob 16710. You can see from your added pic next to the BP 16570 case why your crystal sits so high on the Noob 16710. The first things I would check on the Noob are:

Where on the Noob stairstep protrusion does a gen-spec crystal gasket fit?

Where on the Noob stairstep protrusion does the gen bezel with a gen-spec thickness crystal gasket sit?

Is what you are trying to do even possible with respect to adjacent lateral spacing tolerances among the three elements? If a gen-spec crystal gasket fits snugly on the upper step, what's going to hold the bezel in place? Normally friction from the gasket holds it in place, but that friction would come from a gasket sitting flush to case like it would on the BP case. If the gen bezel fits snugly to the lower step, AND snugly to the gasket at the upper step, it's possible you could use a much shorter height gasket (2.1mm, or custom shave one to the perfect height) and a thinner crystal and you could use the Noob case as is. But you need to closely examine the lateral fit of all the parts before deciding your next step.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sukwonee

sukwonee

I'm Pretty Popular
7/9/11
2,027
6,462
113
PNW
This crystal height is the problem I currently have with my 16570 as well. Date is magnified too big.
 

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
It's also possible to use epoxy in doing a conversion like this. The watch below is a BP 16570 on which I added a WSO rotating bezel and retaining ring. The retaining ring does not fit the BP case protrusion snugly, there is a slight gap so I epoxied the retaining ring in place. I used JB Weld epoxy, it's never going anywhere by itself. While some may view this as a taboo technique, my view is that these are hobby toys and doing whatever it takes to make them look and work like we want is fine by me. Epoxy can be removed with acetone so it isn't an irreversible mod.

16286225861050.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sukwonee

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Wow! Okay, thanks for clearing that up - I clearly misunderstood the different between the hytrel ring and the crystal gasket. *insert facepalm*. And thanks for sharing all this great knowledge - I’m learning so much!!

Measured the crystal and it’s 2.05mm thick.

Where on the Noob stairstep protrusion does a gen-spec crystal gasket fit?

The crystal gasket that came with the case measured at 2.4mm and sits on the step, and does not appear to go over the lower portion of the ring:
39fe3014b4f63509fed9ed8cd85a91e1.jpg


Where on the Noob stairstep protrusion does the gen bezel with a gen-spec thickness crystal gasket sit?

The gen bezel sits 1mm above the ring, and about 0.5mm below the type of the gasket:
caeeee46de1f3ea2ac69cb0014d0b093.jpg

eea7310e6484b1dec983a6f95cf791c9.jpg



Is what you are trying to do even possible with respect to adjacent lateral spacing tolerances among the three elements? If a gen-spec crystal gasket fits snugly on the upper step, what's going to hold the bezel in place? Normally friction from the gasket holds it in place, but that friction would come from a gasket sitting flush to case like it would on the BP case. If the gen bezel fits snugly to the lower step, AND snugly to the gasket at the upper step, it's possible you could use a much shorter height gasket (2.1mm, or custom shave one to the perfect height) and a thinner crystal and you could use the Noob case as is. But you need to closely examine the lateral fit of all the parts before deciding your next step.

You’re totally right. Even if I had a shorter crystal gasket it would have to protrude above the top of the bezel to properly grip the crystal. In the picture below the BP on the left clearly has enough gasket below the top of the bezel whereas in the Noob case on the right, the gen bezel is almost flush and wouldn’t securely grip a crystal:
d5fa5929500528c5ff7cdc1c3ab971dd.jpg


BP ring outer diameter: 29.49mm
Noob upper: 29.46mm
Noob lower: 30.25mm

In which case… a 16570 build would not be possible with the case as-is and would need to machine off the step AND lathe the lower ring diameter to 29.5mm… neither of which I can do.

Hmm. My only option might be to go back to a 16710 build instead…
 
  • Like
Reactions: KJ2020

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Just to add one more photo - here are the original 16710 bezel assembly, insert with the crystal on the case - no gaskets installed so everything is loose. Heights generally look like they work, *edit* although on the right side of the bezel you can see that the crystal is also a little on the high side too, in which case I'll probably get a Clarks crystal like you suggested with the 3 gasket heights to see which works best:

020fc1fa3478c009cd3dc5cea6c28abb.jpg
 
Last edited:

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
Just to add one more photo - here are the original 16710 bezel assembly, insert with the crystal on the case - no gaskets installed so everything is loose. Heights generally look like they work, *edit* although on the right side of the bezel you can see that the crystal is also a little on the high side too, in which case I'll probably get a Clarks crystal like you suggested with the 3 gasket heights to see which works best:

020fc1fa3478c009cd3dc5cea6c28abb.jpg

Your crystal looks high on the right because your insert is not flush in the bezel on the left
 

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Your crystal looks high on the right because your insert is not flush in the bezel on the left

Oh yea - okay tried again and it's level all the way around!

After checking the original sales thread for my case, it's supposedly started life out as a Noob Explorer... so I'm at a loss as to why it would require more case work to make it compatible with a gen 16570 bezel + crystal. Have DM'd the previous owner to see if I can confirm what this case started out as..
 

KJ2020

Time Traveler
Supporter
12/3/18
32,954
59,762
113
Oh yea - okay tried again and it's level all the way around!

After checking the original sales thread for my case, it's supposedly started life out as a Noob Explorer... so I'm at a loss as to why it would require more case work to make it compatible with a gen 16570 bezel + crystal. Have DM'd the previous owner to see if I can confirm what this case started out as..

See if there is a model number between the lugs.

It's not like any rep or gen 16570 I've ever seen. Even with the thinner rep bezel I don't see how it would work.
 

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
See if there is a model number between the lugs.

It's not like any rep or gen 16570 I've ever seen. Even with the thinner rep bezel I don't see how it would work.

Sadly no model number - the seller had them sanded off... After seeing images of a gen spec Milk case and what the ring looks like there... this is definitely an odd case.

From a recent sales listing:
j2yUp1.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: KJ2020

keisuke_z

Renowned Member
22/1/13
503
290
63
Just to add one more photo - here are the original 16710 bezel assembly, insert with the crystal on the case - no gaskets installed so everything is loose. Heights look like they all work:

020fc1fa3478c009cd3dc5cea6c28abb.jpg
 

Svitzer

Renowned Member
22/1/17
583
67
28
Hi guys, recently acquired this Explorer white dial (head only, put it on a 93250 bracelet i already had). Quite interesting to see the markers turned vanilla overtime (i think) and the hands didn’t.

Amazing to see all the expertise in this topic. Curious to hear your thoughts on its origin.
jyz3F1.jpg
jyz2vI.jpg
jyzKAj.jpg
jyzh64.jpg
 
Last edited:

Dohdoh

Renowned Member
30/10/13
500
47
28
Hi guys, recently acquired this Explorer white dial (head only, put it on a 93250 bracelet i already had). Quite interesting to see the markers turned vanilla overtime (i think) and the hands didn’t.

Amazing to see all the expertise in this topic. Curious to hear your thoughts on its origin.
jyz3F1.jpg
jyz2vI.jpg
jyzKAj.jpg
jyzh64.jpg
Well, I guess the dial got relumed... Not the best job in my opinion. The markers on the bezel are re-painted as well. Crown guards are also not correct and dial is misaligned...hope you didn't spent too much ????

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk