ARF vs VRF - GMT II 116710LN (clone 3186) - GAMECHANGING BATTLE.

[Dissemination]

So i read a bit through this thread and there are many who are going to franken their Watches. I cant do that, my budget wouldnt allow me that. Which watch should i buy then for ootb only. The VRF probably because of the more reliable Movement right?

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Depends on what you want. ARF is more aesthetically pleasing, VRF is more reliable. Personally, I'd go ARF. But if they basically look the same to you, go VRF for peace of mind.

In any case, you still will need to spend money down the line later though for service/maintenance.

 

[Dissemination]

JohnnySack if reliability is your ultimate concern go with an ICHS (incorrect hand stack) from another factory, IMO.

 

[Goon3r]

Dissemination thanks for the response, im all for getting the SH3186 serviced when it arrives, but this is all new. Can i just walk in a shop and be like ‘can you fix up this movement?’. I honestly have no idea how this whole process works for regular joes like me.. im no expert and definitely dont trust myself to do this work myself.. im not a watch smith.

I would probably leave the crystal as is tbh, that looks great imo and for me reliability has to come first, get the movement stable.. then make minor changes, dw for example.

It would be great if one of you experts here can provide the real world limitations to the movement after this jumping hour hand springs breaks. This is not a timebomb movement so should still function right? Besides not being able to jump the hour, with a broken spring does the movement lose any other functionality?

 

[Hazing]

Dissemination thanks for the response, im all for getting the SH3186 serviced when it arrives, but this is all new. Can i just walk in a shop and be like ‘can you fix up this movement?’. I honestly have no idea how this whole process works for regular joes like me.. im no expert and definitely dont trust myself to do this work myself.. im not a watch smith.

I would probably leave the crystal as is tbh, that looks great imo and for me reliability has to come first, get the movement stable.. then make minor changes, dw for example.

It would be great if one of you experts here can provide the real world limitations to the movement after this jumping hour hand springs breaks. This is not a timebomb movement so should still function right? Besides not being able to jump the hour, with a broken spring does the movement lose any other functionality?

Then get the vrf. Mine just arrived and I absolutely love it. It looks very close
All the variances that were talking about here are so slight that 99.99% of Rolex owners wouldn't notice them.

For "a regular Joe" like you, you can wear this oob and everything is good enough. The datewheel font is much thinner and much less of a tell then on the ARF. But oob it will be fine and even the movement functions like a Rolex and you have some reliability.

But this is a perfect example of why we don't tell noobs "go for this watch or that watch" because we all have different criteria for what we like or what we want or what's acceptable or not acceptable coupled with what changes we plan to make.

But with the VRF you get reliability, functionality, the big tell of the arf is minimal imo with a decent datewheel (not perfect but good as opposed to the arf which imo is a must change), the details thsy are discussed here (again) are not something 'an average joe' or even "a average knowledgeable Rolex owner" could spot so you'll be fine.

Also, you're most likely going to have to wait for a watch for a while with the global situation. But I believe the ARF is even further out where it might take much longer to get. Unless they caught up. Last I heard they were a month or two out +shipping. While the vrf you can have in a week + shipping.

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[KJ2020]

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Looks quite nice bro, congrats.

 

[Hazing]

Ok awesome. Well I know you like glidelock clasps too. So I'll take one for the team and hope it all works out! Waiting on Tomrep to tell me how much he'll charge for the rebrush and polishing of midlinks.

How did you make out? See the Pic in the previous post - or here... I will post better pics of the sel, but I got an ARF submariner bracelet (smurf bracelet with Glide lock clasp and PCL) and it fits perfectly and you can't see the slitest sliver of light slip between the lug and the end link. So we have a bracelet the pcl and the Glide lock. Love it. Love it. But the clasp size is different between a dive clasp and a sports clasp. The dive clasp is longer so as long as you're not looking for model/detail accuracy with the Glide lock.

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[Hazing]

Looks quite nice bro, congrats.

Thanks man. I must admit I was hesitant to get a GMT because if it didn't function like Rolex, I really didn't want it. Reading this thread got me excited and I tried to get the ARF but at the time, they were really behind so I grabbed the vrf and I am really glad I did. I fucking love the functionality of this movement.

And the developments are happening so fast that GMF came out with their line too so I jumped in the deep end.

I am glad I had a few days with the LN here alone but I really am excited for that batman to get here now.

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[Dissemination]

Goon3r as far as getting the movement serviced/worked on, there many members here on the forum that can do it. Shipping stuff to and fro may seem anxiety provoking, but you really don't have much of anything to worry about. However, it wouldn't hurt to try your luck with someone local. Read this for reference https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/modification-repairs/49762-how-to-find-a-local-watchsmith Note that this was written 10 years ago lol but it still applies for the most part. It will at least help you understand how to address the watch shop you're going into. Definitely don't take it to Rolex though! Haha.

You might be at a disadvantage though because these movements are clone rolex movements, so the type of person trained to work on it may not be as rep-friendly.

As for the jumping hour modul breaking and the rest of the watch working, well I think it should. But I'm just guessing. I'd worry about lose pieces breaking other parts of the movement though.

 

[Dissemination]

Hazing thanks for sharing! Well I actually ended up going with ARF after all lol. Figured I'd save money on the bracelet and casework, and just swap in my extra insert and sell the full gen assembly separately. I purchased a VR3185 to swap in though

That being said, I'm probably gonna give the sub bracelet a shot still! I love the glidelock so damn much. Even on my gen datejust I just cant quite dial it in like I can with a glidelock. I think a gmt could pull it off, especially the black. Probably not so much on any other model like daytona or yachtmaster tho lol.

 

[Hazing]

Hazing thanks for sharing! Well I actually ended up going with ARF after all lol. Figured I'd save money on the bracelet and casework, and just swap in my extra insert and sell the full gen assembly separately. I purchased a VR3185 to swap in though

That being said, I'm probably gonna give the sub bracelet a shot still! I love the glidelock so damn much. Even on my gen datejust I just cant quite dial it in like I can with a glidelock. I think a gmt could pull it off, especially the black. Probably not so much on any other model like daytona or yachtmaster tho lol.

I hear ya. I always say once you get used to a glidelock clasp, it’s tough to go without it.

And actually the 42mm white gold yachtmaster on an oysterflex comes with a glidelock - the only non dive watch to have the glidelock clasp (put out by Rolex). But the glidelock does have that longer dive clasp as opposed to the shorter sports clasp on like gmts so I know what you’re saying. To much clasp on certain models is just... too much.

Besides, with a jubilee, the links are small enough that you can get those micro adjustments for the perfect size. They’re just fixed.

 

[Dissemination]

I hear ya. I always say once you get used to a glidelock clasp, it’s tough to go without it.

And actually the 42mm white gold yachtmaster on an oysterflex comes with a glidelock - the only non dive watch to have the glidelock clasp (put out by Rolex). But the glidelock does have that longer dive clasp as opposed to the shorter sports clasp on like gmts so I know what you’re saying. To much clasp on certain models is just... too much.

Besides, with a jubilee, the links are small enough that you can get those micro adjustments for the perfect size. They’re just fixed.

Well I suppose that 42 with oyster makes sense. Wonder if Rolex is going to do more 42mm models... hmmm. And yeah definitely feel you on the jubilee. I'm always a fan. I even like the batgirl more than the batman now.

*gasp* I know. I went there. Lol.

 

[Goon3r]

Then get the vrf. Mine just arrived and I absolutely love it. It looks very close

I think this has come from the fact i said reliability comes first? Yes, but thats within the context of changes im going to make to the ARF (if any) not whats driving my decision in which version I buy.

I like many others here much prefer the ARF out of the box and I am happy with my choice in this one, but like i say, in terms of changes i make before i go onto visual upgrades (crystal etc) i would like to work on this model's reliability.

But with the VRF you get reliability, functionality, the big tell of the arf is minimal imo with a decent datewheel (not perfect but good as opposed to the arf which imo is a must change), the details thsy are discussed here (again) are not something 'an average joe' or even "a average knowledgeable Rolex owner" could spot so you'll be fine.

One thing i am starting to lean towards is the putting the VR3185 into the ARF, it'll give me quick wins on movement reliability and the datewheel. Obviously i would need to find someone to do this.

Goon3r as far as getting the movement serviced/worked on, there many members here on the forum that can do it. Shipping stuff to and fro may seem anxiety provoking, but you really don't have much of anything to worry about. However, it wouldn't hurt to try your luck with someone local. Read this for reference https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/modification-repairs/49762-how-to-find-a-local-watchsmith Note that this was written 10 years ago lol but it still applies for the most part. It will at least help you understand how to address the watch shop you're going into. Definitely don't take it to Rolex though! Haha.

You might be at a disadvantage though because these movements are clone rolex movements, so the type of person trained to work on it may not be as rep-friendly.

This forum is huge.. i need to dig around it some more! haha I'd be more than happy to send/drive the watch to trusted smiths in the UK so thats definitely an option and probably for the best given these
people know are guaranteed to know rep movements etc. Dont worry.. i wont be taking it to the rolex shop!

As for the jumping hour modul breaking and the rest of the watch working, well I think it should. But I'm just guessing. I'd worry about lose pieces breaking other parts of the movement though.

That makes perfect sense to be fair.

I'm really torn what to do here, do i

• Service the SH1386, buy and replace jumping hour parts with gen?
• Replace movement with VR1385 and have that serviced?

I dont expect a definitive answer to that question but you can see the predeciment people are in. I mean both movements are still very new to the market, so we cant really say for certain how reliable either of these movements are over long periods of time.

Sometimes ignorance is bless.. my first rep, another gmt (5 digit i think? quick change the date wheel?) i just bought with no knowledge on the 'rep scene' and it was all straight forward aand question free. This one, now i know more and that there are improvements that can be made.. being the person i am, i want to make those improvements! And given im no watchsmith.. this could get very expensive for me haha!

Thanks again for answering the questions tho guys, this really helping me get a grasp on everything.

Do all rep models come with so many questions/caveats!? haha

 

[Dissemination]

Goon3r Lol. Well when you pick out a clone rolex movement, things go to the next level for sure :hypno:

I'm hearing everything you're saying, and I'm just going to give you my advice as someone who has been in your shoes- if you're set on this ARF, get it. Enjoy it, play with it, oggle it, etc. It is very unlikely its going to break on you soon lol. During this time, see how much you really like it, and save up your money.

If you don't love it, "just ride it til the wheels fall off" or sell it. Even broken you can sell it for parts, or to someone who's gonna franken it.

If you love it, pony up and pay to play! you can service your movement for ~$150, movement parts ~$180.

Gen datewheel will be ~$125-150. You can get a Prof xtal for $176, or Gen for ~$365 (I cannot express enough how much I recommend upgrading the crystal, but check it out for yourself first).

right now you can buy the VR3185 from thrillofhunt for ~$190, service will be ~$150, and the recommended gen parts will cost ~$180 (although may not be necessary). This will net you with a more reliable movement than the native SH3186, just fyi. Also, if you go this route, you may very well not feel the need to get a gen datewheel.

 

[LuoIsBoss]

Goon3r Lol. Well when you pick out a clone rolex movement, things go to the next level for sure :hypno:

I'm hearing everything you're saying, and I'm just going to give you my advice as someone who has been in your shoes- if you're set on this ARF, get it. Enjoy it, play with it, oggle it, etc. It is very unlikely its going to break on you soon lol. During this time, see how much you really like it, and save up your money.

If you don't love it, "just ride it til the wheels fall off" or sell it. Even broken you can sell it for parts, or to someone who's gonna franken it.

If you love it, pony up and pay to play! you can service your movement for ~$150, movement parts ~$180.

Gen datewheel will be ~$125-150. You can get a Prof xtal for $176, or Gen for ~$365 (I cannot express enough how much I recommend upgrading the crystal, but check it out for yourself first).

right now you can buy the VR3185 from thrillofhunt for ~$190, service will be ~$150, and the recommended gen parts will cost ~$180 (although may not be necessary). This will net you with a more reliable movement than the native SH3186, just fyi. Also, if you go this route, you may very well not feel the need to get a gen datewheel.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Goon3r]

Dissemination LuoIsBoss Have to say i agree with you both.

I've always been a love a rep for what it is.. my old one, purchased maybe 8 years ago i had no intention to mod etc.

Like they say, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous things.I think for now, i've gathered alot of good information on what to do with regards to the movment as and when the jumping hour hand packs in.

My approach to this will probably be, not to worry with a service etc, wait for SH3186's jumping hour mechanism to fail and replace with the VR3185. Hopefully this replacement wont need to take place a for good few months yet, giving the experienced users here time to do more research around the movements etc. Who knows, maybe it'll be another movement recommended to use in the replacement in those few months. *shrugs*. So yeah, for now, to summarise, i think my steps will be

• ARF SH3186
• Love it
• If/when movement fails replace with VR3185 (or most appropriate movement or gen parts as recommended at the time)
• Service the new/repaired movement fully, look at purchasing recommended gen parts for movement
• Look at aesthetics upgrades (cystal, dw etc)

Just one last question, given the above, am i giving up on the SH3186 movement too soon? Does it deserver more of a chance?

As an fyi to you, the ARF is already on order from jtime, im awaiting my QC pics. As soon as i saw this wrist roll on /r/reptime i was sold on this version.

I look forward to doing this all again when a new non timebomb pepsi is released

 

[Hazing]

Well I suppose that 42 with oyster makes sense. Wonder if Rolex is going to do more 42mm models... hmmm. And yeah definitely feel you on the jubilee. I'm always a fan. I even like the batgirl more than the batman now.

*gasp* I know. I went there. Lol.

Well, whatever they’re going to do it isn’t happening for another year. At least. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they came out with a few larger models. But it might be tough knowing how Rolex operates.

As far as the blnr on a jubilee, I know how you feeel. I remember when Rolex introduced the 126710BLNO I was like “I just don’t like it. I don’t like the jubilee and I don’t like blue and red”. It was just too far off from what I know about Rolex. And then I had an opportunity to see and try one on in person and as soon as it hit my wrist, I kind of fell in love with it.

Same with the hulk. Looking at it in pics - I just didn’t get it. Put it on and your entire mindset changes. It just goes to show that there is a huge difference between pics and real life. Ever since then, I’ve really been a fan of the jubilee and the 126xxx series. I like it better myself and I even think in a few years the jubilee will sort of shed that image of the “dressier bracelet” especially as it is introduced to more sport models. I mean it is a dressier bracelet but there is no reason it can’t be rugged as well. But I agreee. I’d much rather have a BLNR or a BLNO on a jubilee as opposed to an oyster any day.

 

[Hazing]

Dissemination LuoIsBoss Have to say i agree with you both.

I've always been a love a rep for what it is.. my old one, purchased maybe 8 years ago i had no intention to mod etc.

Like they say, a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous things.I think for now, i've gathered alot of good information on what to do with regards to the movment as and when the jumping hour hand packs in.

My approach to this will probably be, not to worry with a service etc, wait for SH3186's jumping hour mechanism to fail and replace with the VR3185. Hopefully this replacement wont need to take place a for good few months yet, giving the experienced users here time to do more research around the movements etc. Who knows, maybe it'll be another movement recommended to use in the replacement in those few months. *shrugs*. So yeah, for now, to summarise, i think my steps will be

• ARF SH3186
• Love it
• If/when movement fails replace with VR3185 (or most appropriate movement or gen parts as recommended at the time)
• Service the new/repaired movement fully, look at purchasing recommended gen parts for movement
• Look at aesthetics upgrades (cystal, dw etc)

Just one last question, given the above, am i giving up on the SH3186 movement too soon? Does it deserver more of a chance?

As an fyi to you, the ARF is already on order from jtime, im awaiting my QC pics. As soon as i saw this wrist roll on /r/reptime i was sold on this version.

I look forward to doing this all again when a new non timebomb pepsi is released

Keep in mind things are changing fast too. Remember 6 months ago (maybe 9? I don’t know . Time flies quickly around here) the options were very limited and movements were not that impressive st all. I was not interested in GMTs at all because their functionality differed from rolex’s So drastically. Now we have multiple options with what? 4 big factories making impressive variations. I mean even 3 months ago CHS And clone movement options were extremely limited.

So give it time. By the time your ARF needs service, there’s no telling what other options, developments, upgrades are going to be available. In this front, I agree with @disimmenstion. Just enjoy your watch for now and when you’re given a situation to deal with, examine your options them. Keep yourself tuned to this board so you become aware of developments as they pop up instead of trying to read about months of action Under the pressure of trying to fix a broken movement. Also, in the mean time you can keep an eye on the m2m section and look for deals and upgrades of value and catch someone selling something for a good price.

But who are we kidding? And just be careful. If you start spending time here, the obsessive need to upgrade and upgrade and Franken and mod will take over and before you know it, you’ll be investing even more time and money into building beautiful things to wear on your wrist.

 

[Goon3r]

Hazing hahahha honestly.. i feel like im already there. This is started out as a buy and wear.. within 2 days i’ve already planned 3 eventual upgrades.

Agree completely, i will monitor the movements situation and deal with it as and when i need to, hopefully not any time soon!

 

[srhoque]

I'm really torn what to do here, do i

• Service the SH1386, buy and replace jumping hour parts with gen?
• Replace movement with VR1385 and have that serviced?

Regarding movement reliability, the gen 3185 vs 3186 is a subjective opinion. Some liked the parachrom hairspring 3186 but didn't like reliability issues with settings gears and jumping hour module. Most of opinion here about the rep SH3186 and VR3185 is based on the history and experience of their gen counterparts. While reps clone gen functionality, they use much inferior parts...so both VR3185 and SH3186 is equally vulnerable. Based on some initial review/service of both movements by members, the VR3185 is ahead of the game but these movements are too new to make any kind of informed judgement on long term reliability. Personally, I think if you change the jumping hour module on either (even the VR3185 jumping hour module is terrible) and put in some gen parts like reversing wheels and barrel/mainspring - you should get a lot of life from either.

 

[Goon3r]

srhoque oque its a balancing act for sure, hopefully when it comes to a time when i need to service/repair the movement there is a more information or more of a recommended approach to take. Until then i guess its just a case of monitoring and keeping and eye on how all things progress with both the SH3186 and the VR3185.

Just recieved my QC pics for the ARF SH3186 https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7