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AR+F 4131 Movement Tear Down

dogwood

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Thanks for @CTbeforeLP for sending me his brand new AR+F 126500 Daytona so that I could do a tear down on the movement. This is going to be a massive (and somewhat disorganized photo dump). Sorry, it's late and I've been taking photo under the microscope for way too long to edit these and organize them. If I feel motivated tomorrow when the parts are in the cleaning machine I might edit the pics and order them better. But I felt it would be useful to get this post live so that if anyone has specific requests for pics from different angels, I'll be able to get them before I do the cleaning and reassembly of the movement. Also, it's worth noting that @CTime already started a thread about this movement, I think it's best if CTime's thread is the definitive source on this movement. (CTime is a great TD who goes the extra mile to supply information to this community).

Some thoughts about the movement in no specific order:
  • The movement very clearly has 4130 DNA... it's an altered version of the Peacock (Dandong) SL-4801 movement.
  • The rotor is not secured by the three screws, bur rather those three screws allow you to insert a tool to rotate the whole cover which unscrews. This is bad because it would be nice to actually secure the rotor using those three screws, but good in that at least there's nothing glued down as a rotor center decoration (looking at you VSF Omega movements).
  • I dislike decoration plates, and this movement has one that makes the automatic works look like gen when they are really a one-way winding ETA knock off.
  • The rotor only winds the mainspring. in one direction... this is due to the auto works only having one reversing wheel because there isn't enough space for a second ETA reverser if you need to make things look like a Rolex with a decoration plate (grrrrr....).
  • One of the jewels in the Chronograph bridge fell out when I was disassembling the movement. I suspect this was because the bridge had been thinned to allow for the decoration plate over the automatic works. I'll press the jewel back into place, but there's not much "meat" for the jewel to hold on to since the bridge is so thin.
  • I like the simplifications that Dandong did to the 4130 design in certain places. For example the pusher spring system used here is simpler than the one used on the 4130 -- there are fewer parts and it's less fiddly to assemble.
  • The keyless works is very different from the 4130 but not necessarily in a bad way. I don't know if this design will be easier to upset and require resetting over the 4130, but the nice thing about the 4130 keyless is that it's possible to reset it without removing the dial (if you know exactly where to poke from the side), I'm not sure the same would be possible with this design.
  • The rehaut engraving on the case looks pretty good.
  • Oh, and another improvement of this design over the 4130 is the chronograph minute counter intermediate wheel. On this design it's attached to the train bridge rather than being removable. I like this choice because this little wheel was one of the most annoying to get aligned and into it's jewel hole when trying to place the chronograph bridge on the 4130.
Ok that's all that springs to mind at the moment. Here comes a massive, out of order, photo dump. Sorry. (Not sorry, it's late and I'm tired).


 

Plaasbaas

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flashu

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Thank you again for your work as usual so much details !

For me this movement its not going to make the cut on future buys.

Amazing work and this make the rwi community a solid ground for us to be informed and choose accordingly.
 
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majwilliams0308

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Disappointed to hear that it is indeed a plated movement. Thanks for the detailed pics and teardown though. Keyless is a change for sure but looks solid. Big chunky parts!
 

dogwood

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Disappointed to hear that it is indeed a plated movement. Thanks for the detailed pics and teardown though. Keyless is a change for sure but looks solid. Big chunky parts!
Agreed. The Dandong SL-4801 has a T-34 tank feel vs. Panzer 4 of the Rolex 4130... The tank tracks on the Panzer had a captive pin which couldn't fall out, but it was much more complex to manufacture. The tank tracks on the T-34 had a floating pin and there was a sloped plate next to the track which slammed the pins back into place as the tank drove. (NB: This metaphor is purely about the engineering and design, don't read into it any further).
 

p0pperini

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@dogwood love that tanks track tech analogy. I heard about the T-34 track pin plate not so long ago, while watching the Mr Hewes YT channel, which I highly recommend to anyone interested in tank/AFV and heavy plant resurrection!

Excuse the off-topic thread hijack! :)
 
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m5smg2

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@dogwood thank you for your technical time end effort bringing us this thorough and use info. You are greatly appreciated.
 
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KJ2020

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Great job bro with pics and documentation. I like this movement. DD has streamlined it in significant ways. Let's see how well it holds up over time. It looks really clean overall.

In addition to the integrated setting wheel for minute counter that you mentioned, I really like that the spring for clutch jaws is integrated with the jaw for clutch. They eliminated the clamp for clutch jaws and just let the hammer anchor the jaws. And the modded pusher spring system looks very smart if it's durable. That may be why the keyless was redesigned.

Overall it looks decent though I wonder if we will see PR issues with a light rotor autowinding in only one direction.

Thanks for your thread, big (y) !
 
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dashindark

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it is not a true clone of 4131. A true clone of 4131 will be released by Shanghai factory and clean will have them in their 126500.
 
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KJ2020

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Disappointed to hear that it is indeed a plated movement. Thanks for the detailed pics and teardown though. Keyless is a change for sure but looks solid. Big chunky parts!
Bro what did you mean by plated, aren't they all? That's how the text engraving shows up in a "gold" color.

I recently had to shave a DD4130 mainplate a little off the left side for a better fit in the case and got the same brassy color under the silver plating.

KDTfgv.jpeg


KDTRMK.jpeg
 
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dogwood

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Bro what did you mean by plated, aren't they all? That's how the text engraving shows up in a "gold" color.

I recently had to shave a DD4130 mainplate a little off the left side for a better fit in the case and got the same brassy color under the silver plating.

KDTfgv.jpeg


KDTRMK.jpeg
I think Major meant "plated" as in "decoration plate" not plated as in "nickel plated".
 
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KJ2020

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it is not a true clone of 4131. A true clone of 4131 will be released by Shanghai factory and clean will have them in their 126500.
No rep movement will be a true clone without a free sprung balance and a Chonergy escapement which consists of a skeletonized escape wheel and a pallet fork with thinned stones. CLEAN's movement is expected be closer in design to gen, sure but in the rep world "true clone" is a relative term, lol.
 

dogwood

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Great job bro with pics and documentation. I like this movement. DD has streamlined it in significant ways. Let's see how well it holds up over time. It looks really clean overall.

In addition to the integrated setting wheel for minute counter that you mentioned, I really like that the spring for clutch jaws is integrated with the jaw for clutch. They eliminated the clamp for clutch jaws and just let the hammer anchor the jaws. And the modded pusher spring system looks very smart if it's durable. That may be why the keyless was redesigned.

Overall I'm impressed though I wonder if we will see PR issues with a light rotor autowinding in only one direction.

Thanks for your thread, big (y) !
Yeah I forgot to mention the clutch jaws are nicely simplified. This eliminates two springs and three screws from the Rolex design.

In terms of the rotor, it appears that there's a tungsten / lead (or some other dense metal) slug on the perimeter of the rotor, so I don't think rotor torque will be an issue. I think the main complaint will be that the rotor only winds in one direction so there will be that annoying spinning sound when the rotor spins in the other direction.
 
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KJ2020

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I think Major meant "plated" as in "decoration plate" not plated as in "nickel plated".
Ah OK. It's not just a deco plate though right? It's a bridge that's been decorated?
 

KJ2020

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I don't think rotor torque will be an issue. I think the main complaint will be that the rotor only winds in one direction so there will be that annoying spinning sound when the rotor spins in the other direction.
Good news on the weighted rotor. Bummer they opted for only one reversing wheel. Obviously a cost cutting measure but one with significant consequences.
 

dogwood

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No rep movement will be a true clone without a free sprung balance and a Chonergy escapement which consists of a skeletonized escape wheel and a pallet fork with thinned stones. CLEAN's movement is expected be closer in design to gen, sure but in the rep world "true clone" is a relative term, lol.
Agreed. The term "clone" is thrown around loosely in the community. In my head cannon, I use the following classifications of clone movements:
  • "True Clone" is a movement that's >99% part interchangeable with gen. e.g. DD4130, DD3285, VS3235, or VS3135
  • "Design Clone" is a movement that follows the design of the gen movement very closely but generally isn't compatible with gen parts. e.g. The "clone" patek 324SC and 240 movements, the AP 4302 and 3120 movements, or the JLC 825 movement.
  • "Inspired Clone" a movement that follows the design language of the gen and looks similar at first glance, but is actually something different. e.g. VR3235 and VSF Omega movements
  • "Decorated" a movement that isn't a clone but rather is a slightly modified off the shelf movement with thin decoration plates on top of it so that it looks like something that it's not. e.g. most decorated Miyota 9015 / ETA 7750 / ETA 2824 found in reps.
 
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dogwood

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Ah OK. It's not just a deco plate though right? It's a bridge that's been decorated?
Yes, it's a decorated bridge... I always taste vomit in my mouth when I see those "half wheels" glued on to make things look like what they aren't.

Good news on the weighted rotor. Bummer they opted for only one reversing wheel. Obviously a cost cutting measure but one with significant consequences.
I'm not sure if it was cost cutting or space saving. There would be plenty of room for a second reversing wheel if there weren't the need for the two decoration half wheels to be glued to the bridge. It's hard to see if the original Peacock SL-4801 has two reversers since the stock photo has the rotor on top of the automatic works.