AP Gen owners- is it worth it? or rep is good enough (For what is worth)

[legend]

I believe not only one is unable to tell its a franken AP on wrist, even close inspection might not tell. That's what I feel. Unless scrutinized with a gen side by side or a real AP owner and expert.

Almost true.
I can usually call out the frankens, and definitely upon close inspection, without the gen available for side by side comparison.
I'm the exception rather than the rule though and I have to agree with you. Unless you run into an AP nut who spends his time obsessing over, or building frankens, frankens are usually regarded as gens by the casual collector.

 

[glay78]

Almost true.
I can usually call out the frankens, and definitely upon close inspection, without the gen available for side by side comparison.
I'm the exception rather than the rule though and I have to agree with you. Unless you run into an AP nut who spends his time obsessing over, or building frankens, frankens are usually regarded as gens by the casual collector.

awesome mate, that explains why you sold off gen for 3 frankens. The dials are hard to get though.

 

[APGP89]

I sold a gen Panda when I first handle a Franken. Because I decided to make 3 or 4 frankens with a single Gen price.

I guess this one post is enough to sum this thread.

 

[tosoboso]

My personal experience with APs says that gens are gens (except for those second hand ones available through online resellers that have been serviced by whomever). The attention to milling/polishing, the way the crown unscrews and screws back, the date change at 12, the smoothness and quiteness of the movement cannot be replicated even by a franken. But - provided you're able to find gen parts for a franken - the price difference (a good franken is still about only 25-30% of the second hand gen) simply does not justify keeping the gen, unless you want to treat yourself to a special timepiece. I sold my gen ROO and kept the franken. That gives you a budget to work on other projects. It's a hobby after all. If you're not too keen on the hobby part then go for a gen and get a PhD degree with the free time on your hands. Good luck in any case. Mind you, gen AP movements have a bad reliability record (but a full
AP service is only $1000 still).

Hi folks, this might be a strange question to ask here, but I just want to get some opinion from owners (or ex owners) of gen AP

(Other than the fact that it is a gen AP)- Is the actual product that much better than a good / super rep? I am talking about the look / material / design / feel in real life / handling...etc

Reason I am asking is that I am ready to make my next gen purchase (budget 20-25k USD), and AP FC Diver is on my wish list. This is a purchase I want to hold on for at least 5 years.

After doing a bit of digging around on gen AP forums I see lots of complaints from gen owner, which frankly is quite shocking, things like:

• Ceramic corner on the FC diver chipped off (watch wasn't even worn as a beater)
• Date wheel stuck on a newly purchased AP (funny the date wheel on my Noob ceramic diver actually had this problem and I had to send it back to Toro which he fixed for free :laugh
• Chrono botton falls off (and there was a rumor that the chrono bottons were glued on?- on a gen that is!! lol)
• Inaccurate (some reporting up to 30 seconds + off / 24 hours)
• Bad experience with service center (not getting things fixes properly, long wait)

Problem with asking this question on gen forum is that AP owners (who a lot of them are just rich kids and non-WIS) generally try to sweet talk about their preferred brand (oh yea AP is busy, just need to wait, oh it's all hand made so this is expected, you get this with other brands like Rolex...etc). To me this is just biased BS !! and when you are paying a new car money for a watch you would expect better (and you should!)
....

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

 

[rcom440]

I sold a gen Panda when I first handle a Franken. Because I decided to make 3 or 4 frankens with a single Gen price.

Damn, that Blue Barton!

 

[chinachinaman]

I sold a gen Panda when I first handle a Franken. Because I decided to make 3 or 4 frankens with a single Gen price.

Holy.. awesome pieces mate. If you do intend to let go. I'll snap it up in a heartbeat

-Andrew

 

[legend]

Holy.. awesome pieces mate. If you do intend to let go. I'll snap it up in a heartbeat

-Andrew

They all have been already snapped up in a heartbeat mate. Trust me I know.

 

[chinachinaman]

They all have been already snapped up in a heartbeat mate. Trust me I know.

Knowing your love for APs. I'm pretty sure you do know. Haha

-Andrew

 

[legend]

Knowing your love for APs. I'm pretty sure you do know. Haha

-Andrew

Oh, I don't mean I bought them mate. I meant that I was simply following the sales of those beautiful pieces listed by my friend [MENTION=81082]tinitonsi[/MENTION] here.

 

[lolo1972sg]

Hi folks, this might be a strange question to ask here, but I just want to get some opinion from owners (or ex owners) of gen AP

(Other than the fact that it is a gen AP)- Is the actual product that much better than a good / super rep? I am talking about the look / material / design / feel in real life / handling...etc

Reason I am asking is that I am ready to make my next gen purchase (budget 20-25k USD), and AP FC Diver is on my wish list. This is a purchase I want to hold on for at least 5 years.

After doing a bit of digging around on gen AP forums I see lots of complaints from gen owner, which frankly is quite shocking, things like:

• Ceramic corner on the FC diver chipped off (watch wasn't even worn as a beater)
• Date wheel stuck on a newly purchased AP (funny the date wheel on my Noob ceramic diver actually had this problem and I had to send it back to Toro which he fixed for free :laugh
• Chrono botton falls off (and there was a rumor that the chrono bottons were glued on?- on a gen that is!! lol)
• Inaccurate (some reporting up to 30 seconds + off / 24 hours)
• Bad experience with service center (not getting things fixes properly, long wait)

Problem with asking this question on gen forum is that AP owners (who a lot of them are just rich kids and non-WIS) generally try to sweet talk about their preferred brand (oh yea AP is busy, just need to wait, oh it's all hand made so this is expected, you get this with other brands like Rolex...etc). To me this is just biased BS !! and when you are paying a new car money for a watch you would expect better (and you should!)

I currently own 3 gen Rolex (Sub C, GMT IIC, Exp II) and after handling the super / good rep equivalent models I actually decided to buy gen only. The telling part for me is the handling-

• Gen Rolex just feels gen - the bracelet is finer / more detailed than the best rep out there. There is no play anywhere on the watch.
• When you operate the crown - the unscrewing , the clicking when you change the date wheel and when you pull the crown to the second position - it all felt so solid and robust

I wouldn't say the same about gen Panerais (especially the 6497 closed back reps)- went to AD last week and tried on a 111 - lol I actually thought the Noob rep had better lume!!:laugh:

Couple of other watches I am looking at (but without some minor faults)

• Breguet Marine 5817 (can't seem to find too many owners out there)
• H Moser (beautiful dial but a bit too dressy and 3atm WR sucks)
• F P Journe Chronometre Bleu (again no WR)

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

And imagine if you have to send a gen AP in for service 3 times in a year.
But to set things in the right perspective, I have had other gens "totally screwed" and even replaced (yes, one for one replacement) within a year. And we are not talking about gen Tag Heuer, or gen Tissot or the lower range type of gens.

 

[chinachinaman]

Oh, I don't mean I bought them mate. I meant that I was simply following the sales of those beautiful pieces listed by my friend [MENTION=81082]tinitonsi[/MENTION] here.

Same here. But if you managed to get them from tito, I'll be looking forward to you letting go of any of your existing pieces too. [emoji14]

-Andrew

 

[KingKantona]

What?

What indeed..

 

[Retina]

Not a question of how close it is, a question of whether you love that piece enough to go gen given the price level. If you could only have one watch, I would go gen but it will not be an AP. Taste preference and stuff matters. When you talk about 28-30k price points, a whole range of watches will be available for you.

 

[pfdamion876]

Living in Los Angeles allows me the fortune of visiting almost any major brand botique as well as countless ADs and second hand watch stores. I also own a few gen watches.

I've also had many different reps including PAMs (127, 312, 508), APs (divers, 15400, 44mm novelty, franken), Rolex (ceramic sub), IWC (big pilot), etc etc.

I can confidently say that no rep comes close to any corresponding gen when it comes to fit and finish. All you have to do is pick up any rep and feel around the sharp edges, look closely at datewheel/bezel alignment, unscrew the crown and wind the watch, flip through the date, set the time, etc.

Think your Franken AP is close to a Gen? Go flip through the date of a GEN ROO and compare it to the LWO movement. Think your PAM base is indistinguishable? Look closely at the polishing/brushing between the lugs or the crown guard lever feel.

With all that being said, I absolutely love the rep world and own many reps, with hopefully more to come. You just have to be honest about the flaws and keep things in perspective. Is your rep indistinguishable from a gen? Of course not, just in fit and finish alone. However, is it possible to get the gen level enjoyment out of a rep with spending 1/10-1/60th the price? Absolutely! As long as you don't let these forums drive you nuts with all the details

 

[kazn]

Thanks for all your awesome response guys, especially the ones lucky enough to see / play with the gens ! At where I stay there are only 2 AD s around and it's pretty hard to see many pieces in real life. There is so much knowledge inside the watch world for sure!

I guess the real reason I'm asking this is that my heart is set on the AP FC / ceramic diver (ticks all the boxes), but at the same time afraid of getting burnt (after sales service / product quality...etc) plus the fact that it is commonly repped.

Id much rather spend this money on something that's less popular and less repped, the rarity, uniqueness ... etc. However these watches does not tick all the attribute boxes as the AP. Ahhh decisions decisions......

I do not mind the faults of reps in general, I take them as what they are, and can't really be bothered to fix all the minor details ( it's all in your head at the end of the day !) . I'm just glad I can try them on to see if I like it before going gen.

 

[kazn]

Also in regards to AP dive watches being non functional - it's actually the least of my concern. Personally I find all modern automatic dive watches a redundant feature. Last time I dived with the black bay I end up getting fine sand stuck in the bezel and had to spend $ to fix that !! (Suunto will do just fine thanks)

What I do really want to see is value not seen else where - unique design, craftsmanship, material and of course I'll have to like it enough to not flip it within a year! This is why no patek for me here- I'm only in my 30s and always feel it's a older gentleman's fine heirloom watch ( handled aquanaut before and much rather spend that money on something else.

 

[kazn]

This is exactly what I'm so afraid of lol !!! Buyers remorse ! Thanks for your feedback.

I sold a gen Panda when I first handle a Franken. Because I decided to make 3 or 4 frankens with a single Gen price.

 

[kazn]

I've handled many Gen APs and owned few Rolex/IWC and Brietling gens. TBH NONE of them are worth the price. The only reason why I have my brand new 116613lb Twin Tone Rolex is because the weight difference of the gold. Rep is rubbish.

For the guys saying the gen feels better - I beg to differ greatly unless you handle precious metal pieces like a Skydweller or Day/Date. Any SS piece and Carbon etc etc............they are all the same. Even the weight of the reps are spot on. Let me find you a picture of a REP and GEN AP Diver v7. Its like 2grams off. There is noway anyone in the entire world is going to tell.

Also in real life the finishing of the AP reps along with others like Hublot or IWC are spot on. If you can tell the difference would be via a loupe and 100x zoom. No one has superman vision. I sold my Gen IWC 3777 and Hublot Big Bang Steel/Ceramic after I bought the reps. 100000% not worth the gen prices

Much appreciated for your opinion. That's why maybe rare metal is the way to go as you can tell straight away with weight difference !

 

[andman]

Simply put , the gens IMO have as many mechanical issues as the reps..... Gens movements are quite fragile and enormously expensive to fix . Don't expect bullet proof build !! Buy a G Shock !!

My gens which get very little wear have all been in for warranty work ..... As you mention in your post ..... the last time was my 44RG and the pusher simply fell off !!!

Most reps IMO are sensational but Gen ownership has a special feeling of indulgence .... not worth the xtra most might say !!!!

 

[Marius13]

I wonder how can it be that you have consideres such an exquisite watch like the FP Journe and still think about the FC Diver. I would strongly reccomend in house movements . And with that kind of budget I would seriously consider the Journe or a Lange , or even a preowned Nautilus . Dumping a choice just by the WR is not fair because you don't go swimming with a FP Journe on your wrist ...

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