1655 Explorer II : Ugly duckling or King of cool ?

[WatchN3RD]

checked out the c24 link and pics.. that one is incredible.

however the dial looks like a mk4 or mk6 to me and not a mk5

The Rolex Explorer II Ref. 1655 : A Complete Guide - Italian Watch Spotter

Dear friends of IWS, welcome back to our magazine!

italianwatchspotter.com

perhaps my eyes are playing tricks.

I'm not a 1655 expert but I am OCD with certain dial details. As a layman, I think the dial in the link is an MK.
2 features jump out at me.
1) The hole in coronet looks like a cartoon mouth saying "oh!"
2) The T-Swiss fonts appear slightly taller (or thinner) on the MK.

What do you think after looking at those specific differences?

 

[TubeGuy]

It is a MKIV according to the seller. Serial 58xxxxx The clasp is code VF, which is 1981. So maybe not original but close?

I'm clicking the link to your guide. Thank you. I've sent him a note to buy.

By the way...the seller pointed out that the bezel may be off on the watch I bought, pointing out between 8 and 10, as if it's just wrong or it got machined wrong by someone

EDIT: @WatchN3RD the MKIV dial looks closer for the coronet, mainly because it's a little thinner and taller. Thanks for chiming in I need OCD dudes

 

[WatchN3RD]

I'm sorry, I was referring to the link of the watch you said was "crazy original." Also realized I didn't put MK V. Like an idiot, I just wrote "MK." MK5 was needed!

Rolex Explorer II Mark 5 all original tritium

Découvrez notre Rolex Explorer 1655 de 1979, une montre vintage certifiée en parfait état. Profitez de son design unique et de sa qualité exceptionnelle. Commandez dès maintenant

lecrin.ch

I figured there was no point in figuring out the details of the watch you said was getting sent back, so I jumped forward to inspecting the next link.

I definitely apologize for the confusion, but 1675 guys can't read 1655 brail

 

[aphmars13]

checked out the c24 link and pics.. that one is incredible.

however the dial looks like a mk4 or mk6 to me and not a mk5

The Rolex Explorer II Ref. 1655 : A Complete Guide - Italian Watch Spotter

Dear friends of IWS, welcome back to our magazine!

italianwatchspotter.com

perhaps my eyes are playing tricks.

It seems to me that it's an MK5: the crown and the tritium 25. This eliminates the MK7, crown seems to me to be MK5.

 

[automatico]

I have been trading/working on watches 40+ years as a hobby and I really hate to say this, but there is no way I would buy a vintage (especially 4 digit sub, GMT etc.) Rolex for big $$ in today's market.

Why ?
Because there are 'restoration professionals' who can take a worn out vintage Rolex with case corrosion, dents, rusty movement etc. and make it look new or 'age' it as needed. A laser welded, ground and polished watch is not 'original' by any definition imho.
The only catch is the dial/hands and my guess is before long there will be near perfect replicas, if not already. If so, who is going to know?

Btw...from my experience, the term "know the seller" is not very reliable as I know some 'trusted sellers' that I would not swap dimes with.
I also know some Good Guys that have been in the biz for many years.

So...many will ask why I am in the replica hobby.
It is simple...RWC USA cut parts off to independents so I changed over to mostly replicas for a hobby.

It's easy to be a crook though. For example:
I have some nos 1016 dials, hands, crystals, case tubes, crowns etc. plus a few 1570 movements...all that is missing is a case and a bracelet.
Also have a complete 1575 GMT hack movement (not a 'shortcut' movement) and a 'Phong' 1655 case from 12 or 15 years ago. Al that is missing is a bracelet and dial, I have the hands.
If put together, these two watches would fool most of the current buyers...if I was a crook.

Nov. 17, 1973 | President Richard Nixon Declares ‘I Am Not a Crook’ Ha!​

 

[automatico]

Check this out:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/1f06zwi
This probably happens a lot.

I have a 15200 that came from an RWGcc friend and the main tell is the crown turns the wrong way to set the time ahead.
About 17 or 18 posts down.

Rolex Wristies thread

rwg.cc

Also a pic of my ref. 1003 34mm 'explorer' in the same thread under 'jimmythree'. It is all Rolex except the crystal, dial, hands, strap/buckle...put together with spare parts from the same era as the case.
'Jimmythree' was the name I started with in May 2007 and went to 'automatico' after a server meltdown.

 

[TubeGuy]

@automatico Thanks for that. I find this forum to be incredible for learning. It's really fantastic. I don't buy vintage watches much. I used to seek out new old stock watches. But you are right about that. After seeing how easy it is to age parts, it's crazy.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I think your best bet is buying it at an estate sale or buying something with box and papers when you can still talk to the original owner to verify (assuming you bought from a third party).
Unfortunately, I think buying is a separate art from being to tell what is not original or aftermarket.
Probably why authenticated watches from the owner with proper documentation might be 3 or 5 times the price of one without any knowledge of the history.

 

[automatico]

I think your best bet is buying it at an estate sale or buying something with box and papers when you can still talk to the original owner to verify (assuming you bought from a third party).

Agree.
Have a few vintage 4 digit watches that I am sure are original, only because I bought them new from a Rlx AD.
All the others are unknowns, no box/paps etc.

Unfortunately, I think buying is a separate art from being (able) to tell what is not original or aftermarket.

Agree again.
Or as we say down south...Fersure.

Otoh, spotting aftmkt internal parts such as ST's 'Superior Swiss' line of parts is just about impossible and will cause no problems no matter what some Rlx Groupies might say. High quality aftmkt parts will keep 15xx movements running for years.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I think your best bet is buying it at an estate sale or buying something with box and papers when you can still talk to the original owner to verify (assuming you bought from a third party).

Agree.
Have a few vintage 4 digit watches that I am sure are original, only because I bought them new from a Rlx AD.
All the others are unknowns, no box/paps etc.

Unfortunately, I think buying is a separate art from being (able) to tell what is not original or aftermarket.

Agree again.
Or as we say down south...Fersure.

Otoh, spotting aftmkt internal parts such as ST's 'Superior Swiss' line of parts is just about impossible and will cause no problems no matter what some Rlx Groupies might say. High quality aftmkt parts will keep 15xx movements running for years.

I was just thinking of the easier to see and more obvious parts. I can't even imagine the type of internal movement stuff that usually goes unnoticed. (But I'm happy to hear ST's line is a quality option.) Amazing you know the 15xx internals so well! Guys like you make this forum a real treasure.

If you don't mind me asking, how did get started working on that series movement? I know they used to be more affordable, but they've never been cheap enough to start "tinkering" with. What made you decide to "dive in?"

 

[automatico]

If you don't mind me asking, how did get started working on that series movement? I know they used to be more affordable, but they've never been cheap enough to start "tinkering" with. What made you decide to "dive in?"

It's simple...I came up in the same era as the 15xx movement's heyday...late 1960s/late 1970s. I bought a new 1603 DJ in the early 1970s because I always liked the contour of the 16xx DJ. Loaded up on movements and parts in the early 2000s when RWC started cutting parts off to keep them running. I hardly ever wear a genuine Rlx now.

The Omega 'pie pan' Constellations of this era were very nice too but I traded all mine away years ago. Still have one 'gold top' tonneau case example but they were never very popular.

 

[TubeGuy]

I'm getting internal pictures. If it's OK I'll post. It's supposed to be a 1979 with serial numbers 58xxxxx but the band has a VF marking which from what I know is 1981. Not sure if that lines up.

This will be my last vintage purchase. I need to liquidate stupid shit I bought.

 

[369mafia]

I'm getting internal pictures. If it's OK I'll post. It's supposed to be a 1979 with serial numbers 58xxxxx but the band has a VF marking which from what I know is 1981. Not sure if that lines up.

This will be my last vintage purchase. I need to liquidate stupid shit I bought.

yes please share pics when you can.

what kinda stupid shit do you have to sell??

 

[TubeGuy]

Franck Muller, including a Tourbillion. Graham Chronofighter x 2, one of them never used, several Panerai, but I don't recall which and all this stuff is stored off-site.

 

[WatchN3RD]

I'm getting internal pictures. If it's OK I'll post. It's supposed to be a 1979 with serial numbers 58xxxxx but the band has a VF marking which from what I know is 1981. Not sure if that lines up.

This will be my last vintage purchase. I need to liquidate stupid shit I bought.

I've got loads of stupid shit. I think it comes with the territory. Also, depending on the type of band and age, it's fairly common for older watches to have bands that were replaced. It's also possible that the band it was sold with is a year or two newer than the case.
The case dates were done when the case was made, so the watch may have been finally completed at a later date with a more recent bracelet. I don't know about the late 70's, but it was common In the 60's and most of the 70's.
I guess my point is... if everything else checks out, I wouldn't let a newer band turn me away.

 

[aphmars13]

I think I've just invented a 1655 dial
I don't know where this logo comes from, I'm good at changing my logo

 

[WatchN3RD]

Must be a Mark 2.5 with that coronet? Aren't those worth quadruple?

Seriously though. That looks really, really good. It's got sharp lines at like 20x the magnification of the actual print size.

 

[Karbon74]

I would buy that

 

[aphmars13]

I work with photoshop express and photodirector on my phone. Not easy without a keyboard and mouse . I'm going to send all this to GIMP and try to get it working....

 

[aphmars13]

I made my replacement crown and perfected my dial, it sounds MK4