Given the above and the fact that the first seller here in RWI already raised the issue of the bracelet I can’t help but feel that this should never has been sold like this.
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126713 bracelet question
- Thread starter Blitza
- Start date
Hi guys, I sold this watch to @peter4103 and I bought it from @fred
When looking at the different topics and pictures, tt looks like this watch has not been modified since the first sale.
Just like @peter4103 I'm not a watch technician and can't open watches to check mvmt. I just like watches.
When looking at the different topics and pictures, tt looks like this watch has not been modified since the first sale.
Just like @peter4103 I'm not a watch technician and can't open watches to check mvmt. I just like watches.
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to open the back up get one of these and unscrew it ther are plenty of vids on line, just make sure you do it wit plenty of space on the desk in front and an its clean and free from dust.
It could well be a GMF https://trustytime88.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5&products_id=26727 as they look to have the bracelet not fully plated on the sides but often the pictures on TD's sites are when they are released so any future mods to improve might not always captured which is why its always worth asking prior to a purchase (form a TD that is). The GMF has a slightly better looking insert from the number infill as it looks lighter but when you look at a gen this is in fact actually more yellow anyway so the Clean is actually very close now, when it comes to gold though light plays a big part in the same as it does on the colours of the BLRO.
Without seeing the inside its hard to tell really, @mrmckhansi might be able to confirm the model they sold originally as the first seller said that wherer they got it, but this is no garantee if its the same watch being sold on though, chances are its unlikely to be any different though, If they only sold a GMF then thats your answer most likely and its been either mistaken as Clean by the original buyer selling it on. Clean items come with Clean stickers and whilst these can be copied its unlikely through a TD thats the preserve of Ali or DH. The first pic do look to me as if they dont have the sides plated but its pretty hard to tell. Ive asked on others I have seen for sale (a while back) as its a deal breaker for me visually.
That said getting it palted could be the way forward if you like the watch, but maybe not worth the price perhaps, but it would get a very nice finish and colour close to the gen. Fact is most people would even notice i suspect and the wait between the rep and the gen will be different due to using really gold links but not all the much noticed when wearing or holding in your hand as full gold model.
I guess the question you need to ask is are you worried about the little tells on the watch from a "close to gen" perspective or are your annoyed that its not but think you have now paid more than its worth considering the little in accuracies. Most reps will always have a "tell" but the average AD or gen owner would never know as they dont need too.
The watch you have isnt all bad and if the price was right its ok. If it was sold as a Clean and the pictures you thought you were buying showed it with plated side midlinks then thats another story. The clasp markings are not a big issue either as again all but an RSC would know no different
It could well be a GMF https://trustytime88.io/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_5&products_id=26727 as they look to have the bracelet not fully plated on the sides but often the pictures on TD's sites are when they are released so any future mods to improve might not always captured which is why its always worth asking prior to a purchase (form a TD that is). The GMF has a slightly better looking insert from the number infill as it looks lighter but when you look at a gen this is in fact actually more yellow anyway so the Clean is actually very close now, when it comes to gold though light plays a big part in the same as it does on the colours of the BLRO.
Without seeing the inside its hard to tell really, @mrmckhansi might be able to confirm the model they sold originally as the first seller said that wherer they got it, but this is no garantee if its the same watch being sold on though, chances are its unlikely to be any different though, If they only sold a GMF then thats your answer most likely and its been either mistaken as Clean by the original buyer selling it on. Clean items come with Clean stickers and whilst these can be copied its unlikely through a TD thats the preserve of Ali or DH. The first pic do look to me as if they dont have the sides plated but its pretty hard to tell. Ive asked on others I have seen for sale (a while back) as its a deal breaker for me visually.
That said getting it palted could be the way forward if you like the watch, but maybe not worth the price perhaps, but it would get a very nice finish and colour close to the gen. Fact is most people would even notice i suspect and the wait between the rep and the gen will be different due to using really gold links but not all the much noticed when wearing or holding in your hand as full gold model.
I guess the question you need to ask is are you worried about the little tells on the watch from a "close to gen" perspective or are your annoyed that its not but think you have now paid more than its worth considering the little in accuracies. Most reps will always have a "tell" but the average AD or gen owner would never know as they dont need too.
The watch you have isnt all bad and if the price was right its ok. If it was sold as a Clean and the pictures you thought you were buying showed it with plated side midlinks then thats another story. The clasp markings are not a big issue either as again all but an RSC would know no different
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good evening gentlemen, I was as surprised as all of you when I discovered this discussion thread. I myself bought the watch here
without suspecting that there were any inconsistencies. yes I'm curious to know the end of the story!!
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Yep and that seller said they got it from @mrmckhansi so I think if they can confirm what they sold I think that is part problem solved. Based on some scenarios below.
They either didnt sell a Clean and then it was sold on as a Clean perhaps knowingly or unknowingly cant say to be sure
They did sell a Clean and it was just an earlier version where the bracelet wasnt plated on the edges (I think I asked either puretime or trusty not long after I saw it come out and asked them the question on the edges as alot of the DJ's are the same and they said the latests version will have the side plating) It might of been that they did infact use GMF bracelets and bezel rings to save getting plating done at first (testing the market maybe?)
They did sell a Clean and it did have the side plated bracelet all the time from the start and its been swapped for a GMF bracelet
They did sell a Clean and that was kept and the seller already had a GMF but wasnt as happy with it so sold on the GMF bu calling it a Clean as its an easier sell and most wont really notice or care if the price is right, (this would of been deliberate and not in the spirit of the forum so would hope this wasnt the case).
I think it's the Butler and he used the lead pipe in the scullery!
You are skipping the whole fact that the issue was raised back to the Vendor and then thereafter was sold by @mowuee2 without disclosing that information and the Vendor never heard back from him. He even says:
The buyer’s response on February 22nd was as follows:
Hi, thanks for the response. I need to see if I have a tool.
But I’ve already listed them for sale.
I hope there won’t be any problems because I listed them as clean.
I’ll get back to you.
So he knew he could get in trouble as he was selling it as Clean whereas at that point there were already doubts if it was correctly sold as a clean. He never told the buyer @fred about this, who then in good faith sold it on as a Clean to @mizou and he to me, and me to @Blitza . So I do appreciate your knowledge and input, but its besides the point to be honest. @mowuee2 willingly sold it with incorrect information.
The buyer’s response on February 22nd was as follows:
Hi, thanks for the response. I need to see if I have a tool.
But I’ve already listed them for sale.
I hope there won’t be any problems because I listed them as clean.
I’ll get back to you.
So he knew he could get in trouble as he was selling it as Clean whereas at that point there were already doubts if it was correctly sold as a clean. He never told the buyer @fred about this, who then in good faith sold it on as a Clean to @mizou and he to me, and me to @Blitza . So I do appreciate your knowledge and input, but its besides the point to be honest. @mowuee2 willingly sold it with incorrect information.
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Not really read the first known advert for it on here! It is from Mowuee2 who states in the ad that its origin was m2m and in the actual typing of the ad says "quote"
Clean Rolex GMT Master II 126713GRNR
new/unworn, removed most stickers, comes with full links (as seen on photo)
got it from @mrmckhansi
I paid USD 831; EUR 770; CHF 732
Will let it go for the current price on intime:
USD 738
EUR 683
CHF 650
So as I suggested if it was orignally sold as a Clean at source as the guy has stated then its one of the things ive suggested, he either bought it thinking it was Clean when it wasnt, he bought it as say GMF and then sold it on as Clean and then everyone else has done the same.
Its best if The original TD can confirm exactly what they sold if they say they sold a Clean and it just didnt have the sides plated as already mentioned then no one is at fault! If The TD infact sold it as Clean when they knew is wasnt then thats another story.
The guy bought a watch probably the same as you and all the others in between and has acutally bought a Clean watch it just didnt have the sides plated either becuase they bought in a bracelet from another supplier or just cos they didnt do a very good job, this was the reason why the TD ask for picutres of the inside so the movement could be checked, it could well have been that the TD got shipped the wrong model and it was never checked at QC.
The guy then asked the question about it, they replied trying to help and then it never went any further cos he decided to just sell it on without any wrong doing or bad intent. He bought it in good faith thinking it should be plated on the sides and it wasnt he then either by him noticing or by him reading somewhere else, then realised it looks wrong and then asked the question, but didnt want to open it up in the same whay you dont either! Had he of done that then maybe the TD would of had been able to supply the serial number and images and either get a replacement or refund from the factory. This doesnt mean he sold it with incorrect information I see nothing on the advert that states is has plated sides on the midlinks, unless Im missing that part? You are assuming he thinks its not a Clean model rather than him just asking, shouldnt it have the correct bracelet, but again without the original adverts and pictures its hard to tell as all the new images online do have the midlinks done.
At no point have any of the other buyers, you inlcuded asked the question about it before making the purchase either, instead choosing to purchase based on the same sale pics used by the original seller.
I get your point but without the actual facts its hard to judge that the first M2M sale after buying from a TD was dishonest.
There are 2 people who can help move this along and thats @mrmckhansi and @mowuee2
As you did purchase through the M2M sales there is always the option to ask the mods/admins to step in and help out as everyone want to keep selling on here and the 2 guys who hold the cookie jar look to sell a few things so Im sure they would prefer to sort it out like gentlemen.
You could ask them both directly in this post or via PM asking them for confirmation prior to asking admins to help and maybe a small price adjustment or as a gesture between the option to put it righ by cover the cost to get it re-plated, solving the issue and probably ending up with a better gold match than any stock models, as many Clean can look as ive said a little more gold than others so a fresh replate could make it perfick.
Good luck
Thanks again for your opinion. Other experts here have shared a different opinion, so I go with the facts which were shared earlier in this thread by the TD who originally sold the watch.Not really read the first known advert for it on here! It is from Mowuee2 who states in the ad that its origin was m2m and in the actual typing of the ad says "quote"
Clean Rolex GMT Master II 126713GRNR
new/unworn, removed most stickers, comes with full links (as seen on photo)
got it from @mrmckhansi
I paid USD 831; EUR 770; CHF 732
Will let it go for the current price on intime:
USD 738
EUR 683
CHF 650
So as I suggested if it was orignally sold as a Clean at source as the guy has stated then its one of the things ive suggested, he either bought it thinking it was Clean when it wasnt, he bought it as say GMF and then sold it on as Clean and then everyone else has done the same.
Its best if The original TD can confirm exactly what they sold if they say they sold a Clean and it just didnt have the sides plated as already mentioned then no one is at fault! If The TD infact sold it as Clean when they knew is wasnt then thats another story.
The guy bought a watch probably the same as you and all the others in between and has acutally bought a Clean watch it just didnt have the sides plated either becuase they bought in a bracelet from another supplier or just cos they didnt do a very good job, this was the reason why the TD ask for picutres of the inside so the movement could be checked, it could well have been that the TD got shipped the wrong model and it was never checked at QC.
The guy then asked the question about it, they replied trying to help and then it never went any further cos he decided to just sell it on without any wrong doing or bad intent. He bought it in good faith thinking it should be plated on the sides and it wasnt he then either by him noticing or by him reading somewhere else, then realised it looks wrong and then asked the question, but didnt want to open it up in the same whay you dont either! Had he of done that then maybe the TD would of had been able to supply the serial number and images and either get a replacement or refund from the factory. This doesnt mean he sold it with incorrect information I see nothing on the advert that states is has plated sides on the midlinks, unless Im missing that part? You are assuming he thinks its not a Clean model rather than him just asking, shouldnt it have the correct bracelet, but again without the original adverts and pictures its hard to tell as all the new images online do have the midlinks done.
At no point have any of the other buyers, you inlcuded asked the question about it before making the purchase either, instead choosing to purchase based on the same sale pics used by the original seller.
I get your point but without the actual facts its hard to judge that the first M2M sale after buying from a TD was dishonest.
There are 2 people who can help move this along and thats @mrmckhansi and @mowuee2
As you did purchase through the M2M sales there is always the option to ask the mods/admins to step in and help out as everyone want to keep selling on here and the 2 guys who hold the cookie jar look to sell a few things so Im sure they would prefer to sort it out like gentlemen.
You could ask them both directly in this post or via PM asking them for confirmation prior to asking admins to help and maybe a small price adjustment or as a gesture between the option to put it righ by cover the cost to get it re-plated, solving the issue and probably ending up with a better gold match than any stock models, as many Clean can look as ive said a little more gold than others so a fresh replate could make it perfick.
Good
hey folks,Not really read the first known advert for it on here! It is from Mowuee2 who states in the ad that its origin was m2m and in the actual typing of the ad says "quote"
Clean Rolex GMT Master II 126713GRNR
new/unworn, removed most stickers, comes with full links (as seen on photo)
got it from @mrmckhansi
I paid USD 831; EUR 770; CHF 732
Will let it go for the current price on intime:
USD 738
EUR 683
CHF 650
So as I suggested if it was orignally sold as a Clean at source as the guy has stated then its one of the things ive suggested, he either bought it thinking it was Clean when it wasnt, he bought it as say GMF and then sold it on as Clean and then everyone else has done the same.
Its best if The original TD can confirm exactly what they sold if they say they sold a Clean and it just didnt have the sides plated as already mentioned then no one is at fault! If The TD infact sold it as Clean when they knew is wasnt then thats another story.
The guy bought a watch probably the same as you and all the others in between and has acutally bought a Clean watch it just didnt have the sides plated either becuase they bought in a bracelet from another supplier or just cos they didnt do a very good job, this was the reason why the TD ask for picutres of the inside so the movement could be checked, it could well have been that the TD got shipped the wrong model and it was never checked at QC.
The guy then asked the question about it, they replied trying to help and then it never went any further cos he decided to just sell it on without any wrong doing or bad intent. He bought it in good faith thinking it should be plated on the sides and it wasnt he then either by him noticing or by him reading somewhere else, then realised it looks wrong and then asked the question, but didnt want to open it up in the same whay you dont either! Had he of done that then maybe the TD would of had been able to supply the serial number and images and either get a replacement or refund from the factory. This doesnt mean he sold it with incorrect information I see nothing on the advert that states is has plated sides on the midlinks, unless Im missing that part? You are assuming he thinks its not a Clean model rather than him just asking, shouldnt it have the correct bracelet, but again without the original adverts and pictures its hard to tell as all the new images online do have the midlinks done.
At no point have any of the other buyers, you inlcuded asked the question about it before making the purchase either, instead choosing to purchase based on the same sale pics used by the original seller.
I get your point but without the actual facts its hard to judge that the first M2M sale after buying from a TD was dishonest.
There are 2 people who can help move this along and thats @mrmckhansi and @mowuee2
As you did purchase through the M2M sales there is always the option to ask the mods/admins to step in and help out as everyone want to keep selling on here and the 2 guys who hold the cookie jar look to sell a few things so Im sure they would prefer to sort it out like gentlemen.
You could ask them both directly in this post or via PM asking them for confirmation prior to asking admins to help and maybe a small price adjustment or as a gesture between the option to put it righ by cover the cost to get it re-plated, solving the issue and probably ending up with a better gold match than any stock models, as many Clean can look as ive said a little more gold than others so a fresh replate could make it perfick.
Good luck
As I mentioned in my previous post, I was more than happy to assist my customer. At that time, I needed more insights on the watch and its movement, but the buyer did not respond. It is possible that he sold the watch before clarifying the issues. Now, the watch has gone through several buyers, making it difficult to determine its current status. So in case I can help you further please let me know and it's the best to contact me directly. It would be also great the current owner can post some pics of the movement.
thanks a lot.
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Stuvetjee
For all your RM Strap and Jewelry needs!
Vendor (Strap Maker)
Moderator Sales
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Yes that doesnt look liek a DD3285 When you change the hour hand to mover it forward do you turn the crown in a clockwise motion? The DD3285 Clone you have to turn the crown anticlockwise which is the same as on the gen, that looks like a decorated 3285 VR3186 movement to me which would mean it an early clean perhaps. The serial number on the rehaut is defo a clean SN.
I dont believe that the VR3186 is a direct swapout for a dd3285 in terms of case fit (someone with more knowledge than I might be able to confirm or deny that) i think the DD3285 is a gen spec size movement where as the 3186 movement is a little smaller and has been used in the 5 digits and the earlier 116710 models true to the gen world, the gen 116710 used the 3186 movement and the 126710 uses the newer 3285 movement, the cases are marignally different on the outside edge of the lugs where they are little slimmer. It maybe be that the internals of the case is also a little diferent on the gen for the new movement.
I do think that earlier models may have still used the Vr3186 decorated as 3285 and Im pretty sure they didnt have the sides plated when I was looking at them (which was what put me off not the movement so much) but I think its hard to tell as they wont be on many TD sites with pics anymore and there might have only been a small batch made to "test the water" I think it is a Clean model but as I said a very early one and either purchased a while back or that a factory had one on the shelf as a "new old stock" and shipped it un wittingly perhaps, if at the time the noone knew the differences between the movements and it hasnt been checked it would be hard to say it wasnt right. The plating on the sides is missing for sure but only by the model avaialbe now from fatories if its an older model then its not really wrong.
The part that is to be questioned is the age of the watch as its not a new model for sure but I still think its a Clean, just quite how old it is and if its been originally supplied recently or has been bought a while back and and then punted on as almost new is another question only the first 2 in the chain can answer really.
Ofcourse it is possible that its a parts swap out model with a Clean serial numbered case, when I enquired to Trusty about a Clean 116710LN late last year as asked the question on th case markings and the stamps can be hit n miss some of the newer models still use the 116710 cases and some of the retro 116710 models use the newer case with the 126 stamps which is also incorrect but as good as Clean are they are still a rep factory and and most buyers will never notice (its only worse on this one due to the gold plating).
I dug mine out of the watch box and took the back off and this is a Clean 126713 April build ish
Mods have asked for a reply so lets see what unfolds I guess.
hello, sorry I wasn't online for a long time
I got the watch from @mrmckhansi where it was stated as clean, then I asked him about the missing color on the side of the mid-links and he told me to open it which unfortunately I don't have the tools for.
As he stated correctly I didn't reply anymore because of the lack of tools on my side
So I sold it with the intention of it being a clean (I honestly can't judge if it was or it wasn't, my knowledge isn't good enough)
However I just went over the thread here and of course I'd like to help sort it out
Sorry for the late reply
add on to the quote above about M2M, I thought @mrmckhansi would fall into the category of being a m2m sale instead of a regular vendor website, my bad if I mixed that up
Also to add here, I did not have incorrect or correct information at the time, I just figured it was weird because of the non-plated midlink sides and thought it could have been like that since it's not gen therefore production mistakes could happen, not with the ulterior motives of being sold something it isn't, so I didn't give it a further thought
It was sold as a clean to me so I sold it forward as a clean, by both the sellers @mrmckhansi and my best knowledge, maybe his source got back to him with more insights?
Unfortunately, I don't have the tools to open it without damaging it so I couldn't do it
I always had positive transactions besides being scammed once (I got the money back through the great help of the forum) and I don't want to get in bad standing on the forum, I also had a couple of transactions with @fred already (both ways) especially because the CH market is quite small and to my knowledge, everything went well all the time
I'd like to solve the issues at hand and of course, I am open to proposals on how to do that @Stuvetjee
And again, sorry for the late reply but I try not to visit the forum as much because it can be an addictive/costly hobby^^
@Blitza @mizou