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It’s here!!!! ZZF V2S 114060 VR3130!
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Kalev007
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Got mine this afternoon, exceeds my expectations and the crown action is butter. No grinding just smooth, I feel like there is no need to mod this watch.
Not really yes it's as gen as it gets OTB but yours unfortunately has almost flush SELs.
Try to source a new ZZF bracelet with gen like SEL recess it improves it a lot on wrist. Flush SELs are a good tell so they always bother me a lot. People are swapping their ZZF bracelets for ARF so put a WTB up and there's a good chance you'll find one. I did so for my date and luckily my no-date was perfect OTB.
Here's a good review with pics where you can see the gen in good detail https://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-submariner-ref-114060-date-watch-review/ (all pics are on page 2).
It's a big improvement on wrist when you get them gen like from the flush look.
James2020
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Not really yes it's as gen as it gets OTB but yours unfortunately has almost flush SELs.
Try to source a new ZZF bracelet with gen like SEL recess it improves it a lot on wrist. Flush SELs are a good tell so they always bother me a lot. People are swapping their ZZF bracelets for ARF so put a WTB up and there's a good chance you'll find one. I did so for my date and luckily my no-date was perfect OTB.
Here's a good review with pics where you can see the gen in good detail https://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-s...-watch-review/ (all pics are on page 2).
It's a big improvement on wrist when you get them gen like from the flush look.
Those are seriously good looking SELs... Those came originally on your ZZF 114060 V2?
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Mancio, I’ve just seen a video on YT about Tudor BB58 (Gen) and the amplitude on that particular watch was 323. So I think you can go green light!
Kayatsu1
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I want to be honest saying that, after owning it, I don't really get all the hype around ZZF. I personally think that even if is probably the best OOTB 116610/114060 that we have today there are too many things that are wrong with it and this v2s version doesn't address those problems. The CGs are completely wrong and the case is the same. The bracelet is slimmer and of different dimensions compared to the real one. The insert is incredibly dull in low light and not even close to the gen one. The SEL fitment is flushed in the majority of them, the bezel teeth are wrong, the central dip is way too pronounced and so on. Plus the price is rapidly increasing without any reason honestly.
I feel that the Sub should be a pretty easy one to rep at least decently, but at the same time I can see that the replication level on this model is quite low compared to others. The case is quite simple and there aren't many details or complications that can make the watch a difficult one. I can understand that rep makers want to put flaws in watches because probably they are implicitly allowed to do reps only if they aren't close to the real deal, and I can understand that rep quality will never be the same one of a gen. If we only had a decent case to start with I would justify a franken, but until a maker doesn't realize a decent case even frankening is not convenient in my opinion.
Until then bye bye Sub. Sadly V6s are too rare.
I feel that the Sub should be a pretty easy one to rep at least decently, but at the same time I can see that the replication level on this model is quite low compared to others. The case is quite simple and there aren't many details or complications that can make the watch a difficult one. I can understand that rep makers want to put flaws in watches because probably they are implicitly allowed to do reps only if they aren't close to the real deal, and I can understand that rep quality will never be the same one of a gen. If we only had a decent case to start with I would justify a franken, but until a maker doesn't realize a decent case even frankening is not convenient in my opinion.
Until then bye bye Sub. Sadly V6s are too rare.
Kalev007
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Those were original on my ZZF 114060 V2.
They can be almost flush with ZZF or perfect like gen it's all over the place with each watch. My ZZF V2 116610LN had them flush almost so I bought a brand new ZZF bracelet M2M for it which had perfect gen like recess. You must ask the seller for pics when the bracelet is on the watch to know it has them. Luckily people are swapping those a lot for ARF so put a WTP up and these can be found.
Here's the date as well with the new bracelet (was almost flush originally):
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Yes but those things will always be present in the rep world I think. We just have to point out two fact: the price (You are right, I understand the much improved quality but I don't think I will ever buy a fake watch over 7/800 dollar, cause there are some good other gens out there in that price range) and the other thing is HOW different a rep is in comparison to a gen. Is the bracelet SO different? Is the insert SO different in comparison? Can someone in a small amount of time looking at you wrist say that you are wearing a fake? I'm just underling the fact nowadays the rep world reached an incredible level of quality and really few little differences must be accepted by us, IMHO.
Kayatsu1
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I am talking only from my personal point of view. To my eyes and to my feels there is still a very noticeable gap between the gen and zzf. Honestly I don't care what other people (non rep enthusiast) think, they can't probably spot even a difference. But if you really love this model and you know a bit about Rolex is very easy to recognize a gen over a ZZF. Anyway, I partially agree with you. I am just pissed off when I hear all this hype around ZZF, they don't deserve it IMO and they are using it to increase the price without improvements, just like the other factories. There is a video made by a fellow member on youtube that clearly shows how much difference there is between a gen and a zzf and I feel like people should see it before buying.
At the moment that difference is about £7000! and rising so differences are expected.
Overall they are very good nowadays. Rep guys from 10-15 years know what crap we had to live with in terms of accuracy and fitting gen parts with the ease you can now!
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Overall they are very good nowadays. Rep guys from 10-15 years know what crap we had to live with in terms of accuracy and fitting gen parts with the ease you can now!
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I understand you friend. But since the ZZF would not be the ideal replica of a sub, which of the rep manufacturers do you think is closest to the gen?
Kayatsu1
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I can only deeply respect your knowledge and experience in this field, since you are one of the most expert members here, and obviously reps are getting better. The overall point of what I have written is that I really don't get how after 10 years on the market and a quite simple structure to copy, we still don't have a decent sub case. Especially considering that other models are definitely better replicated than this. Hope this will change soon.
Kayatsu1
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None of them is close to gen. Models that I have seen that are closer to gen are others. The ZZF is the best OOTB but the CGs are horrible. At this point I still feel that a NOOB would be a better base to franken. But hope this will change soon.
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One simple answer. Economics. The Chinese have no interest in perfecting a Rolex copy as the thirst for them is far higher than any other brand available and we silly buggers take it all in every time and buy one! I’ve probably had over 30 sub reps but if they made a perfect one I’d never buy another.
They have the capabilities to make it perfect but they don’t and never will.
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Kayatsu1
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I honestly think that this is only a part of the answer.
1) They are implicitly allowed to do reps as long as they are far from gens. Otherwise I think Rolex and all the powerful makers would make them stop.
2) This still doesn't explain why we have a killer rep like the NOOB Pepsi (which case is very nice, which insert is good but that has other problems like the movement) and at the same time such poor Subs in comparison. In my opinion until now no maker made really an effort to make a good Sub. And I don't know why since it's a pretty requested rep. I mean NOOB downgraded things over time, ARF couldn't get anything correct (not even the lume color) apart from bracelet and clasp, and now ZZF is a bit better but nothing crazy apart from the price which is slowly becoming higher and higher. As long as the ZZF was the cheaper between the Subs it made more sense to buy it. It would be sufficient to improve a few details to have a good sub and I feel that the day will come.
Anyway thank you to everybody for letting me share my thoughts, I love this forum and this hobby. It was nice to have a little confrontation with you all.
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Which Noob Pepsi is good? I must have missed something, I thought they were all bad overall.