What AP Franken(s) do you have in the works?!

[QueTip]

Now just sell it to me next

Haha go try

 

[BIONONE]

Finished

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planning a platinum Offshore Franken? LWO 283 as a base or did you source a 3126? quite interesting even if the weight could be a problem as this stunner weighs about 400-450g (including the bracelet)

 

[Legion]

Haha go try

Hahaha. I wish
My black themes and bumblebee will have to keep me company for now

My watch fund has dried up as I've bought a few classic cars recently. And I'm on the lookout for another, a 60s classic beautiful Alfa Romeo

 

[Legion]

Finished

Next Project

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Very cool.

I like that face alot. If you're ever up for selling it, please let me know.

 

[flying-tommy]

You are aware that that dial you posted is not the one from the gen pic you posted, yeah?

I hope I can trust the Watch Smith I bought the Dial and Tachy today.
It is the Grey Themes „Elephant“

I hope so


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[QueTip]

I hope I can trust the Watch Smith I bought the Dial and Tachy today.
It is the Grey Themes „Elephant“

I hope so


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It’s not. It’s the platinum reference 26470PT

 

[flying-tommy]

Let me check with the seller


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[BIONONE]

i wouldnt be mad if i got a limited platinum offshore dial instead of a mass produced elephant dial hehe

What was the limitation of the 26470PT? I think 50 pieces, right?

 

[QueTip]

i wouldnt be mad if i got a limited platinum offshore dial instead of a mass produced elephant dial hehe

What was the limitation of the 26470PT? I think 50 pieces, right?

Yep. 50 pieces made. Sticker price $122.000,00 USD

 

[flying-tommy]

Yes it’s seems very exclusive but he has a received with Elephant. curious


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[BIONONE]

Yep. 50 pieces made. Sticker price $122.000,00 USD

Few month ago i tried one on - felt way too top heavy with the hornback strap and way too heavy in total with the bracelet hehe

 

[QueTip]

Few month ago i tried one on - felt way too top heavy with the hornback strap and way too heavy in total with the bracelet hehe

Good friend of mine has one of the gens. He wears it daily on bracelet and he has chicken wrists and is a pretty tiny dude in general. I haven’t seen him in a while but his left arm must be enormously trained by now whilst the rest will look like before.

 

[BIONONE]

hehe :hehehe:

 

[Spatiumtemporis]

Lets face it, the chrono function in watches these days serve more as decoration than anything else. If you want to maintain the reliability and longevity of your watch movement, stay away from it. This applies also to the gen 3126/3840 movement.
Yes there are 3 variants of ROO hands (that I have seen) and only the modern ones have a distinct polished pyramid stack. The older models have smaller hand bases, but the finish and shape can vary. The teardrop and round shapes of the chrono hand base are both found in gens. I do not know why. But there is no substitute for gen hands. None at all. The best replacement hands are similar, but if you know what to look for, you can never unsee the difference. However, such differences need to be inspected at close proximity. Nobody will be able to call your hands out as rep in the wild from across the table if it is a good set of Mikey hands.
For the gen cyclop, I have again seen two variants: blue/purple and clear. I have not seen a green tinted cyclop but it may not mean that it does not exist.

The 2836 movement cannot be stacked with a DD module at all. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable/skillful than me can modify the movements to make them work together.

Well at the end of the day, as long as you had fun building/wearing the franken and are happy with it, all's well that ends well. If you expect your watch to be on par or indistinguishable from the gen, features and function wise, you will ultimately be disappointed. It is all about expectations and knowing where to find your satisfaction and joy in the hobby.
I will like to once again comment that you have a superlatively nice build, wear her well!

thanks mate, really appreciate your input again!

 

[QueTip]

Hi Legend,

I perfectly agree with you that an eta will never be as refined as the ap or the jaeger-lecoultre based movement ( based only on assumption off course, i've never had the change to fiddle around with a gen ap movement before ) , but can you be more specific on the other things that bother you so much in a franken ? Don't get me wrong please, just curios to see and learn of

input here-- As Mr. Legend already stated there is worlds of difference between a LWO and a gen cal. Obviously as you would think. One has to keep in mind that both the LWO and a gen cal are very sensible and delicate movements. Thus abusing either will most likely run back at you and hit you in the face when going for service. Of course here again, the gen cal is less likely to hit you in the face like a LWO would but it still won't hesitate. Especially when it's time, AP will take on that job for the movement. No point going more in depth here as legend did it already

Cause you called the franken above to be leagus away from the real piece and that really made me curious.

I don't have a lot of knowlage on the ap roo builds but i'm assuming most of the things that bother you are related to the case. Like finishing and shape, right ?

Well, have you seen my comparison pic between a gen and the said budget franken? Did you notice the difference in hands and in date wheel surround / date wheel itself etc.

Having a lot more experience with rolex builds on the other hand, i could argue the same for those.
I mean regardless of how many gen parts you throw on a sub rep for example, there will still be a lot of things wrong with it .
Like the lugs shape, sel shape and fit, bracelet finish and feel, clasp look and feel etc.

But having both gen and the rep (case and bracelet ) side by side i was able, in many cases, to end up with a pretty close build to the real deal both in look and feel.
So what i'm saying is that most of the issues realted with the prestige and finesse if you will ( like very small tolerances, subtle beveled edges on the clasp and bracelet for .ex) , that set the gen apart from any reps or frankens can be overcome thorough hard work and study.

And the exact same rules apply to any AP franken as well. Very few frankens exist that even come close to the gen feeling (although legend might disagree with me here but trust me, they are out there. most likely never to be able to be purchased through m2m though *coughcough*)

Now on a ROO build, having the realatively cheap option to go for a gen strap and clasp (and considering you go gen for the hands, dial, tachy and cyclops maybe) the only thing left to worry about is the case. And how hard can getting the case right be ? Am i right ?

Again, just making assumptions here, but i recon that with a little fine tuning you can get pretty close to the real deal.
I'm really curios to see your take on this subject. After all you do have a lot of gen roos and defently know a lot more about them than me.

I've noticed that most modified cases still have issues left unsolved, like the beveled edges on the back near the crown, or the missaligned border between lugs and back, or the caseback shape even after modding ( which would be pretty hard to address ) , but i still recon that those issues can be fixed as well .

Looking forward to your and other's input on this as well .

Gen strap and clasp don't buy you much. You have to get very lucky to get your hands on a full set including a hands set and even if you do, you can expect to pay a pretty penny for all that. Just a set of hands alone lately has been going through the roof in terms of pricings. You can expect to pay anything between 800 (very very lucky) and 1500 for a set of hands. Now add the dials (that obviously also have increased drastically in price) and the tachy (same rules apply here), even more so if you want to go for a just slightly special watch that isn't one of the absolute common sets (such as Panda, Grey Themes etc)

Factor all of this including the hefty sum that you pay for getting the casework and assembly done in with everything and you'll end up close to approx. 6kish where you won't have any of the very itsy bits parts addressed yet. As you want to go into specifics of these itsy bitsy tells that are really marginal and only known to very obsessed people with these pieces (such as legend or me lol) no one will even look twice at those but let's go into them briefly. We're talking case geometry, symmetry, finish or edges that are not visible during wear (inside or back etc) or type of construction (loading factor and assembly) followed through to gap between tachy and crystal if no gen or gen spec crystal is used since most rep crystals are thinner than gen too and thus create a more or less visible gap between crystal edge and tachy edge. Depending on the model of your build this will be more or less visible, as I said. Additional to that we're talking about movement performance, action through date switches, condition and matching of parts (yes these can be matched too :lol: ) I could go on forever.

At the end of the day, it's always still a franken and shall be treated as such and never misrepresented for anything as as soon as you show it to someone in the knows, he will be able to call you out on the spot. I will if you stand next to me I will see and be able to tell what it is.

Getting a franken really good and to a point where it actually is comparable to its genuine counterpart will take a lot of money which as legend has said is not worth the money unless you can live with losing a big percentage of the investment if you ever decide to sell because you will never get it back if selling as you will get you very close to the price of a genuine piece.

Believe me or not, I know people (including myself) that have spent approx. 20-25k and more on a single franken done to perfection and we're not talking adding diamonds here.

If you want to know any more of my thoughts please let me know as this is just a brief (quick and dirty) expression of my thoughts and feelings.

 

[Jurgenk]

I’d love to see that $25k franken!


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[Spatiumtemporis]

legend thanks for your reply over Mr.Beasy's thread . I appreciate you taking the time again and I respect your opinion.

Here is my take on that though :

- You've mentioned the rectangular date window vs the squared one in gens - i think this can be an easy fix tbh ( how hard making a custom plate be ? i recon i could do one even by hand ) as well as all the other small details that make the ss gen case more refined than the ss rep case.

- Prosche with a Toyota engine : One buys a Porsche mainly for it's engine performance right ?

While a watch movement ( no matter how refined the parts and design are) it will still tell the time with a pretty similar performance as a stock ETA ( +/- 3 secs a day ) .
So using an ETA vs a gen 2226 for ex doesn't bother me that much. Especially as long as it is coupled with the same DD module as the gen one, putting the date window and subdials the same positon as the gen combo. Don't know what excatly the stem height is on a gen 2226 but i'm pretty sure it must be similar with what the ETA 2892 has.

The 2836 eta clone will tell the time as well, but it will have a diff stem height, making the case look diffrent. So that's indeed not a solution for me , but only from that standpoint.

The way i see it with these frankens, renders down to one thing mainly and that is saving some money.
Like getting almost the same thing for less, usual business .
I'd love to have 12 gen pieces as you do but i don't have the funds to do so obviously. So rather than spending money i'd be able to spend more time trying to get a similar product for less.

Now don't get me wrong , I don't wear any watch to brag and tbh most of my friends are clueless about watches anyway. I don't post my watches on social media either, I just wear them for myself because i love watches. So my goal is not to fool people but if i can get almost the same thing for less, why not . So the Porsche with the Toyota engine doesn't apply for me here.

The funny thing is that even with all these being said i'm still pretty confident i'll end up buying a gen eventually

QueTip you said that the exact same rules apply to any AP franken as well ( details that set cases apart ) . This is exaclty why i quoted Lengend in the first place, cause i was curious to see what those things exactly are ?

I could point out for example all the things wrong (imo) with a rep subc case ( even the v9 ) for ex regarding geometry and fine details and i was curious to see if anybody can do the same with the ap roo case.

So thanks for pointing a few of those details above ! I'd certainly love to learn more.

 

[Jurgenk]

I understand what Legend is trying to get across with his comments. The situation is very similar to my experience with owning other high end watches, such as those powered by a respected in-house movement with some complications that set it apart from anything ETA offers. And then ARF/V6F/GF/ZF/JF/OMF comes along with a nice copy that closely approximates the case material and dial details, and decorative plates that copy many of the in house movement flourishes and even some complications. I see the rep and say wow it’s really scary how close it is, respect the effort, but I am never tempted to wear it because it lacks the feel and details of the gen. I feel indifferent to the existence of 90-95% copy. It does not threaten the value of the gen, as anyone with knowledge of the gen would know the difference. Yet the copy is not embarrassing in its quality, and it does almost everything the gen watch does. It’s about seeing the glass as 90% full or 10% empty. And 90% is not at all shabby. I would humbly submit that many of the nicer AP ROO frankens reach that 90% threshold even using an LWO and not a 3126 movement. As others have pointed out the DD module gives them a common Achilles’ heel despite the differences in their quality as movements.

The most recent gen ROOs have upped their game with features that improve their value while serving as anti counterfeiting measures. These clearly are very difficult to replicate to 90% yet some have done it. It seems easier to hit that mark with earlier ROOs.

 

[flying-tommy]

I’m thinking about to sell my Reps and Franken and buy 1-2 Gens, but I talked to so much AP Dealers in the last time.

The only Problem what I saw is that the Prices for a normal ROO (Elephant, Vampire, Ghost..) is not really stabile.

The List Price for an Elephant is 26.500 € from AP. My Dealer Offer me a brand new Watch for 19.500 € but he told me after 2-3 years the Price from my new Watch will go down to 13-14.000 €.


It’s like my new Audi Q8, List Price is 128.000 € but two years later will go down to 70.000 €. But my Car payed by Company unfortunately my Watches not

The most Dealer recommend a classic limited Watch to increase the Watch Value but I don’t like.

So, this is the reason why I will stay with my Reps and Franken.
I know they are not 100% perfect, but for the money I love all of them.

Maybe later I changed my opinion, but at the moment I feel good with my decision. And i know two people in Germany they sell his Gen and build a Franken, or put it into the safe and build Franken.

And im very often with Domi. Only a few Franken you see here in Replica Forum, I would say 40% of the build Franken from Domi you see in Forum.
The rest is quite and build/wear his Franken.

I’m not a Expert in Watches, but I saw so much builds and I see so much Gen AP’s when I’m ones per Month in Geneva for work.

It’s a decision from each person, go with a rep, go with a Franken or go with a Gen. Everyone has other Priorities and Preference.



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[Jurgenk]

I’m thinking about to sell my Reps and Franken and buy 1-2 Gens, but I talked to so much AP Dealers in the last time.

The only Problem what I saw is that the Prices for a normal ROO (Elephant, Vampire, Ghost..) is not really stabile.

The List Price for an Elephant is 26.500 € from AP. My Dealer Offer me a brand new Watch for 19.500 € but he told me after 2-3 years the Price from my new Watch will go down to 13-14.000 €.


It’s like my new Audi Q8, List Price is 128.000 € but two years later will go down to 70.000 €. But my Car payed by Company unfortunately my Watches not

The most Dealer recommend a classic limited Watch to increase the Watch Value but I don’t like.

So, this is the reason why I will stay with my Reps and Franken.
I know they are not 100% perfect, but for the money I love all of them.

Maybe later I changed my opinion, but at the moment I feel good with my decision. And i know two people in Germany they sell his Gen and build a Franken, or put it into the safe and build Franken.

And im very often with Domi. Only a few Franken you see here in Replica Forum, I would say 40% of the build Franken from Domi you see in Forum.
The rest is quite and build/wear his Franken.

I’m not a Expert in Watches, but I saw so much builds and I see so much Gen AP’s when I’m ones per Month in Geneva for work.

It’s a decision from each person, go with a rep, go with a Franken or go with a Gen. Everyone has other Priorities and Preference.



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Tommy, did you just build this RC? It came out nice!!!


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