ARF vs VRF - GMT II 116710LN (clone 3186) - GAMECHANGING BATTLE.

[Dissemination]

srhoque oque its a balancing act for sure, hopefully when it comes to a time when i need to service/repair the movement there is a more information or more of a recommended approach to take. Until then i guess its just a case of monitoring and keeping and eye on how all things progress with both the SH3186 and the VR3185.

Just recieved my QC pics for the ARF SH3186 https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

Nice!

 

[Hazing]

I just saw in the other thread that the vr 3186 movements are available for

srhoque oque its a balancing act for sure, hopefully when it comes to a time when i need to service/repair the movement there is a more information or more of a recommended approach to take. Until then i guess its just a case of monitoring and keeping and eye on how all things progress with both the SH3186 and the VR3185.

Just recieved my QC pics for the ARF SH3186 https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

And damn. Nice. You can't beat that either. Looks good.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[KJ2020]

I've had both ARF and VRF watches in hand and worked on both movements. IMO the ARF is a better quality caseset, including everything on the outside. The VRF is a much better movement, including the DW, which is good enough to not require a replacement with gen. A gen jump click will improve both movements. The ARF really needs 2 additional gen parts replacements to approach equitablity. The first ARF movement I worked on the jump click stopped functioning fully very early on. It would not allow backwards hour jumping. It was binding and I'm sure it would have broken if I had forced it, even accidentally.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...ing-hour-parts

Datewheel compare

 

[LuoIsBoss]

I've had both ARF and VRF watches in hand and worked on both movements. IMO the ARF is a better quality caseset, including everything on the outside. The VRF is a much better movement, including the DW, which is good enough to not require a replacement with gen. A gen jump click will improve both movements. The ARF really needs 2 additional gen parts replacements to approach equitablity. The first ARF movement I worked on the jump click stopped functioning fully very early on. It would not allow backwards hour jumping. It was binding and I'm sure it would have broken if I had forced it, even accidentally.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...ing-hour-parts

Datewheel compare

Very informative, thanks bro

 

[srhoque]

srhoque oque its a balancing act for sure, hopefully when it comes to a time when i need to service/repair the movement there is a more information or more of a recommended approach to take. Until then i guess its just a case of monitoring and keeping and eye on how all things progress with both the SH3186 and the VR3185.

Just recieved my QC pics for the ARF SH3186 https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

Good judgement BTW, the QC pics looks great, Enjoy the watch in good health.

 

[srhoque]

I've had both ARF and VRF watches in hand and worked on both movements. IMO the ARF is a better quality caseset, including everything on the outside. The VRF is a much better movement, including the DW, which is good enough to not require a replacement with gen.

Spot on Mate!! Mixing VR3185 with the ARF case is the preferred outcome.

 

[Goon3r]

Good judgement BTW, the QC pics looks great, Enjoy the watch in good health.

Cheers mate, i think so too one thing that keeps catching me eye seems to be the cyclops, is it slanted? Am i being to critical?

Best shot for angled cyclops:

---

You see in my amateuristic view i almost feel there could be slight misalign of the insert.. which causes the bezel, rehaut and insert and the cylops and date wheel not to line up 100%. To be honst i dont even know if thats how it works?

Best shot for miasligned rehault (crown at 12):

---

Full album again for anyone who fancies a browse/comment: https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

Thanks everyone

EDIT: For those who havn't seen my last posts this is the ARF SH3186

 

[KJ2020]

Cheers mate, i think so too one thing that keeps catching me eye seems to be the cyclops, is it slanted? Am i being to critical?

Best shot for angled cyclops:

---

You see in my amateuristic view i almost feel there could be slight misalign of the insert.. which causes the bezel, rehaut and insert and the cylops and date wheel not to line up 100%. To be honst i dont even know if thats how it works?

Best shot for miasligned rehault (crown at 12):

---

Full album again for anyone who fancies a browse/comment: https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

Thanks everyone

EDIT: For those who havn't seen my last posts this is the ARF SH3186

You aren't wrong about the cyclops but it isn't slanted. The top and bottom edges are not exactly parallel. I have seen a lot like this, it is a batch issue. There was previous discussion about it in this thread, I posted pics showing it.

The insert triangle will look off center left when the right side of the watch is closer to the camera, which is done to show the cyclops and date window better.

Compare these two pics taken seconds apart the only difference being the right side is closer to center the cyclops and date window. Note how it shifts the apparent position of the triangle.

 

[Goon3r]

KJ2020 I see what you mean about the insert triangle now, so im happy with that one.

I knew something wasn't right with the cyclops, i thought the bottom edge didnt look square to the top edge but assumed this must be an angle thing. Its obious now, follow the top of the date window across and look at distance from top left/right edge of the date wheel to the cylops, same distance.. do the same for the bottom edge and you can see this is at its worst at the bottom right. Again always just thought this was an angel thing and the entire cyclops was slanted.

So given this is a batch issue, im guess there are other batches without the issue ie/ paralle cyclops? Its a shame because i guess this isnt something that can be easily modded away? I mean if it was alignment i guess during service you could have some realign properly? But to fix this you'd have to cut the cylops.. probably not possible?

Thanks for your help looking into this KJ2020

 

[OldNavitimer]

Rolex cyclops are the same way. Go on Rolex’s own site and see what I mean. The top and bottom aren’t exactly parallel.


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020 I see what you mean about the insert triangle now, so im happy with that one.

I knew something wasn't right with the cyclops, i thought the bottom edge didnt look square to the top edge but assumed this must be an angle thing. Its obious now, follow the top of the date window across and look at distance from top left/right edge of the date wheel to the cylops, same distance.. do the same for the bottom edge and you can see this is at its worst at the bottom right. Again always just thought this was an angel thing and the entire cyclops was slanted.

So given this is a batch issue, im guess there are other batches without the issue ie/ paralle cyclops? Its a shame because i guess this isnt something that can be easily modded away? I mean if it was alignment i guess during service you could have some realign properly? But to fix this you'd have to cut the cylops.. probably not possible?

Thanks for your help looking into this KJ2020

Factories get parts from suppliers in lots or batches of thousands or more. There would be some overlap of batches but generally a part (the crystal in this case) is going to be more or less identical while a factory's current batch lasts.

To correct it the crystal would need to be changed. You can't cut or shave a cyclops. The cyclops can be changed but you have to remove the crystal to do it and gluing a new one on is pretty tricky. Alternately the crystal could be rotated a degree anti-clockwise to split the difference above and below the date window. Again, doing that requires removing the crystal so you might as well just change it.

BUT, did you notice that in my Shark pics above, that crystal has the exact same issue? I didn't catch it in QC and I noticed it the first few times I wore the watch. The watch is nearly two years old now and I haven't even thought about it for quite a while. It's such a minor issue that you should forget about it soon enough. It isn't even noticeable in many lighting conditions. It also isn't as pronounced from one viewing angle to the next. You can see it's less noticeable in the second pic than the first one.

So, I would try not to focus on it or worry about it. Give it a few months. If you can't tolerate it, replace it. The watch is easily good enough to deserve a gen crystal if you want to improve it.

 

[Goon3r]

KJ2020 thanks for all the advice, im not sure this watch is worth risking the RL for just to get another one back with the same issue on the cyclops, i didnt realise the scale these factories and the number of parts they have per batch etc.

I actually didnt notice it on your shark, goes to show, unless you're really looking for these flaws you're not going to spot them, mighty fine looking watch there btw, i've been looking at the hulk recently.. may just hold out for a new release of a pepsi.

Like you've said i dont think it would be worth paying a watch maker to rotate the crystal that 1 degree, and with many people recommending buying a gen crystal i think i will do that.

Today i am probably going to GL the watch with an eye to changing the crystal and fixing up the movement. Looking at the prices of the crystalon chrono24, its basically what i paid for this watch!

Thanks again for taking a look at this!

 

[Dissemination]

KJ2020 thanks for all the advice, im not sure this watch is worth risking the RL for just to get another one back with the same issue on the cyclops, i didnt realise the scale these factories and the number of parts they have per batch etc.

I actually didnt notice it on your shark, goes to show, unless you're really looking for these flaws you're not going to spot them, mighty fine looking watch there btw, i've been looking at the hulk recently.. may just hold out for a new release of a pepsi.

Like you've said i dont think it would be worth paying a watch maker to rotate the crystal that 1 degree, and with many people recommending buying a gen crystal i think i will do that.

Today i am probably going to GL the watch with an eye to changing the crystal and fixing up the movement. Looking at the prices of the crystalon chrono24, its basically what i paid for this watch!

Thanks again for taking a look at this!

Patience with the gen crystal, you'll find deals Or you can always check out a prof xtal (he is a vendor here). Nothing beats gen, but my rule of thumb is unless I'm using other gen parts, I use a Prof crystal. He generally charges 168 plus 8 shipping.

 

[KJ2020]

Goon3r Gen crystal in a blister runs around $360 and many are sold here M2M. But the ARF crystal is really pretty good so don't count it out yet. You could buy another nice rep for that much chang.

 

[Goon3r]

Patience with the gen crystal, you'll find deals Or you can always check out a prof xtal (he is a vendor here). Nothing beats gen, but my rule of thumb is unless I'm using other gen parts, I use a Prof crystal. He generally charges 168 plus 8 shipping.

Yeah i think once the watch arrives i'll realise im really in no rush. I think its pretty natural that when you're reading about all these upgrades and modifications you can/should do to a watch that you want to do them all straight away! I imagine once it arrives it'll probably be a wear ootb for a good while.

That being said, i've had a dig around prof's crystal section, dont see any being sold? Does he sell crystals ready to go or is it just the coating service?

Goon3r Gen crystal in a blister runs around $360 and many are sold here M2M. But the ARF crystal is really pretty good so don't count it out yet. You could buy another nice rep for that much chang.

That watch of yours is a beauty What factory/version is that?

How many GMT's have you got? Are they your fav model they're definitely my favourite!

The next watch i'll be looking to buy is a non timebomp pepsi. Any factories rumoured to be developing one? Also, is it true that the new pepsi only do jubliee bracelts in the steel? Sure i read somewhere that the oyster bracelets are white gold?

 

[RiffRalf]

Goon3r I don't think once you have it on the wrist the cyclops will bother you. Remember this is a smallish watch with a broad bezel and therefore an even smaller dial.

I wear my ICHS GMF BLNR with the misaligned rehaut and the slightly raised crystal and the not quite perfect bezel all the time and do you think I notice any of that? No.

I actually have a gen crystal that I picked up M2M a little while ago and have a 3185 clone movement on the way for if or when I may upgrade to the latest BLNR and then these parts can slot right in. But sometimes I wonder if it's worth it sonce my own BLNR is so good. Sometimes good is good enoigh and it doesn't have to be perfect.

like kj2020 says you can buy another rep for the price of a gen crystal. A cole 16710 rhat KJ2020 reviewed himself sets you back $188 from nembos corner over at repgeek and a very nice Paul Newman or a Pre-Daytona that he reviewed is $200 from Marvelous Marv. (Guess what's waiting for me when I get home!)

you seem to have a good attitude about it all so good luck

 

[Dissemination]

Yeah i think once the watch arrives i'll realise im really in no rush. I think its pretty natural that when you're reading about all these upgrades and modifications you can/should do to a watch that you want to do them all straight away! I imagine once it arrives it'll probably be a wear ootb for a good while.

That being said, i've had a dig around prof's crystal section, dont see any being sold? Does he sell crystals ready to go or is it just the coating service?

He sells Crystals... you have to PM him. Or he will coat yours. I just buy them from him though because he makes sure the magnification of the cyclops is correct.

I have a few extra I was gonna put up for sale at a discount but i packed them away while I was moving things and I guess I haven't unpacked the right boxes yet lol. Who knows, maybe I'll find them by the time you're ready to upgrade haha.

But I think you're doing it the right way. I've had enough reps now that I know what I want straight away... mostly at least. But I think starting OOTB and getting to know it, then making upgrades as you continue to learn is really the best way to not only be smart with your money, but to build appreciation for your watch and this hobby- if in fact this hobby is for you

 

[Hazing]

I always say "wear it for a week and see what bothers you" or what you like/don't like.

Not - taking Pics and zoom it and examine every centimeter critically.

Also, what you want to do to it depends. What are you doing with the watch, who's looking at it, who you're showing it to. How much you want to spend, how much you want to do. Upgrades are definitely for the perfectionist.

If you just want a "nice watch" that you can wear daily, you have that. That watch will be great for a long time. I guarantee any little issue you find, for the most part won't be noticibole to the average wearer or anyone whe sees it in passing.

You can replace many parts with gen. The hands, The crystal, The Date wheel, The bezel, the insert. And sure they'll all look slightly better. I mean All these things - when you go gen are slightly better but that's it... It's slightly better.

These factories do a great job. They do such a good job that the benefit you get from a significant additional investment in gen parts is minimal.

Sure, to obsessive compulsive hobbyists like us, we can see many differences but that's rare. I think you'll see, on wrist, you barley notice any of the things you're worrying about.

People often say "99% of the population doesn't care what is on your wrist " And that is true. You probably only have as high as 1% of the people even notice because it's a Rolex. Any other brand and it's probably like 99.999%.but my original point is you could hand the watch you're about to GL to Rolex owners and 99.99% if people who own a gen Rolex would be incapable of definitively identifying it as a replica. Even under close, critical examination. Most Rolex owners are casual owners. Out in the real world, finding people who have interest or knowledge in watches the way people on forums do, is very rare. The forum members (most/any watch forms) are definitely hardcore when it comes to knowledge.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Goon3r]

Goon3r I don't think once you have it on the wrist the cyclops will bother you.

I hope not, but at the moment it seems like thats all i see when i look at the watch.

---

He sells Crystals... you have to PM him. Or he will coat yours. I just buy them from him though because he makes sure the magnification of the cyclops is correct.

I have a few extra I was gonna put up for sale at a discount but i packed them away while I was moving things and I guess I haven't unpacked the right boxes yet lol. Who knows, maybe I'll find them by the time you're ready to upgrade haha.

But I think you're doing it the right way. I've had enough reps now that I know what I want straight away... mostly at least. But I think starting OOTB and getting to know it, then making upgrades as you continue to learn is really the best way to not only be smart with your money, but to build appreciation for your watch and this hobby- if in fact this hobby is for you

I will definitely look into if i decide to go with a non gen crystal upgrade, and make sure you keep me in mind if ever you found those extras you've got stored away!

Definitely agree with starting OOTB, like i keep, its very easy at this stage to window shop every single upgrade possible but then i suppose doing that you lose appreciation for the watch from the start as you're favour waiting for the next upgrade.. i done know.

And ill be honest, i didnt see this starting as a hobby, my old rep (~8 years old) broke a while back and i stumbled onto the rep watch scene.. to me it always a case of a buy watch and be gone, but definitely since signing up here i can feel myself falling into this from much more of a hobbiest standpoint rather than it just being about retail.

---

I always say "wear it for a week and see what bothers you" or what you like/don't like.

Not - taking Pics and zoom it and examine every centimeter critically.

Also, what you want to do to it depends. What are you doing with the watch, who's looking at it, who you're showing it to. How much you want to spend, how much you want to do. Upgrades are definitely for the perfectionist.

If you just want a "nice watch" that you can wear daily, you have that. That watch will be great for a long time. I guarantee any little issue you find, for the most part won't be noticibole to the average wearer or anyone whe sees it in passing.

You can replace many parts with gen. The hands, The crystal, The Date wheel, The bezel, the insert. And sure they'll all look slightly better. I mean All these things - when you go gen are slightly better but that's it... It's slightly better.

These factories do a great job. They do such a good job that the benefit you get from a significant additional investment in gen parts is minimal.

Sure, to obsessive compulsive hobbyists like us, we can see many differences but that's rare. I think you'll see, on wrist, you barley notice any of the things you're worrying about.

People often say "99% of the population doesn't care what is on your wrist " And that is true. You probably only have as high as 1% of the people even notice because it's a Rolex. Any other brand and it's probably like 99.999%.but my original point is you could hand the watch you're about to GL to Rolex owners and 99.99% if people who own a gen Rolex would be incapable of definitively identifying it as a replica. Even under close, critical examination. Most Rolex owners are casual owners. Out in the real world, finding people who have interest or knowledge in watches the way people on forums do, is very rare. The forum members (most/any watch forms) are definitely hardcore when it comes to knowledge.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

One of the problems i've got is that it's bothering me alot the more i look at it and i havn't even got it yet. The cyclops is the first thing i see now i look at it.

Also, im a programmer, so with that comes alot of perfectionist tendencies.. at this point i think upgrades eventually, will be inevitable.

And honestly, the knowledge in this forum is incredible, the eye for detail you guys has amazes me.. the problem with that is you're all slowly training my eye and now i'm questioning parts of a rep that i would have once completely missed! Its a double edged sword!

---

So for all of you aswell, an update on my QC..

I've gone back to lana and requested more pictures of the watch but on a flat surface, i hope that with these i can better judge the alignment/cyclops issues on the watch, im still waiting on these.

I'll be honest with all you though, i feel like im slowly moving towards RL'ing this watch, like i said the first thing i look at when i look at the pictures of the watch is the bottom of the cyclops.

I was speaking to my friends about the possible purchase yesterday, they asked to see pictures, so i had to pick out the one where the cyclops was the lease noticable and i wasnt even trying to pass it off as a gen, which was quite worrying actually. Do i want to spend my time when wearing the watch keeping it on a certain angles around people to negate the cyclops issues or straight up hide the watch from people? Im not sure.

My worry is, if im this paranoid or this aware of the cyclops then it will have an effect on my enjoyment of the peice when it eventually arrives? I know myself, and i feel like it will. I almost verge on OCD with stuff like this from my career in programming and perfectionism so the nature of this fault, non parallel lines is not an easy one for me to overlook. You know for example, we all know the date wheel font is too thick on the ARF's, but that still functions, it tells the date.. it doesn't bother me at all nor does it look like a 'fault' its just not close to gen and i think there is a difference there. Non parallel cyclops looks like a manufactuing fault.. whereas something not looking 100% like gen doesn't actually look like a fault to me, so doesn't bother me too much.

Having seen other pictures of other peoples watches i know there a better looking crystals/cyclops out there, this one for example loosk perfect to me
https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-review/page57
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f730d5f9.plist
(Just as an FYI this is the ARF with the VR1385 swapped in, im talking more about the cyclops here)

So yeah, im in a real predicament here, i know alot of you have recommended for me to take the watch in my original QC, but say i go against that, my reasoning for the cyclops, is that unreasonable reason to RL the piece? Obviously if i decide to RL it will make li/lana aware that it is due to the unparallel cyclops so hopefully they can source me one without this issue.

To caveat all this, i may get the updated picutres and i may love it, at the moment im not sure.

QC pics for anyone stumbling on this post: https://imgur.com/a/w30KwV7

EDIT:

More pictures of other peoples,
- ms5mg2 (page 15): https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...add376bd.plist
- jcher (page 21): https://www.pixelsbin.com/images/2020/03/03/IMG_42642f304b8a565db7b2.jpg

 

[KJ2020]

Goon3r I tagged you to look at a couple others on another thread. I don't think you'll get a better one, but it's certainly your prerogative to try. Keep in mind that all samples vary slightly and what you gain in one area you may lose in another.

BTW in the link where you saw the better crystal did you see this?

"plus I fitted a gen crystal too"