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Why the CHS GMT movements are failing

Tickleshoes

Renowned Member
Supporter
19/8/15
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45th Parallel
Hey gang. I finally had a chance to dig into a CHS GMT Master II with a "broken" jumping hour hand. Thought I'd share what I found since I've hand several members reach out with issues.

So props to the rep factories for trying to engineer a solution to get the hand stack correct. Unfortunately, it fails in execution. In short, the parts are so thin and frail that I imagine this will continue happening until it's fixed.

The Jumping Hour is made up of 2 gears which sandwich a spring. Here is a gen 3185/86 version from my watch:

1b34c39de2de93ed7423abe6bca3899e.jpg

7bef09fe673d26d77ea4352d035a47f3.jpg


A strong, thick spring holds those massive fingers against the grooves. Now compared to the Asian solution:

c783c89b1c4199a810d361cc84c5eff4.jpg


And with the top on:
55de943330073eb2ebbdfbbbcde54046.jpg


The spring has to be strong enough to move the top and bottom gears together when the watch is running but have enough give to let them jump independently when adjusting the hour hand. Unfortunately that spring is not up to the task.

As these are custom pieces there are no replacement parts. The only things that can be done are to A.) just live with whatever state the watch is in when broken or B.) glue the top and bottom gears together and reset the hands. This will insure that they don't become out of sync but you will not be able to adjust the hour/GMT hand independently.

Sorry for the bad news guys. Maybe the factory will engineer a better solution but I'd either never adjust the jumping hours or steer clear!

-TickleShoes
 

junbug5150

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24/12/14
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This is a fantastic explanation. Thank you for providing some insights. Now please make us that custom spring so people can sent their movements to ya ;)
 

WatchestoPlay

Timelord
12/8/16
1,798
75
48
Thanks for the update! That makes sense, when I had one of those the jumping hand felt very flimsy, and that explains it!
 

Rx4Time

Supporter, Panerai lover
Supporter
Certified
31/3/16
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Thank you for the excellent work investigating this! While I'm disappointed in the poorly made parts, I'm glad that you shed light on why the failure is occurring, and that there is no readily available fix. Thank you!
 
D

d4m.test

Guest
Very interesting technical explanation. Thanks
 

ryantunna

I'm Pretty Popular
8/7/14
1,675
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I wonder if sales have dipped due to all these failures? Waste of $400 if it craps out after a week


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

silentflight

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Certified
14/6/13
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135
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I feel that glueing the parts is a decent solution.

I could live without independent hour and Gmt at the cost of CHS.

Are the hands custom size? Or are they a standard size?
 

FiloViridae

Advisor
Advisor
27/3/15
5,622
25
38
NYC
Excellent write up!! I currently have @dragonman and as this is the issue (not sure if you remember from the GTG).

Hope all is well man!


Sent from my iPhone using RWI
 

Thrasher

Legendary Member
15/4/14
13,198
2,289
113
The Beach
Or Everyone could have Tickleshoes make them a 3186 Yuki!!!! You did this right? Expensive?

Awesome work buddy!
 

theREALgoat

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Certified
14/8/14
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Hey gang. I finally had a chance to dig into a CHS GMT Master II with a "broken" jumping hour hand. Thought I'd share what I found since I've hand several members reach out with issues.

So props to the rep factories for trying to engineer a solution to get the hand stack correct. Unfortunately, it fails in execution. In short, the parts are so thin and frail that I imagine this will continue happening until it's fixed.

The Jumping Hour is made up of 2 gears which sandwich a spring. Here is a gen 3185/86 version from my watch:




A strong, thick spring holds those massive fingers against the grooves. Now compared to the Asian solution:



And with the top on:


The spring has to be strong enough to move the top and bottom gears together when the watch is running but have enough give to let them jump independently when adjusting the hour hand. Unfortunately that spring is not up to the task.

As these are custom pieces there are no replacement parts. The only things that can be done are to A.) just live with whatever state the watch is in when broken or B.) glue the top and bottom gears together and reset the hands. This will insure that they don't become out of sync but you will not be able to adjust the hour/GMT hand independently.

Sorry for the bad news guys. Maybe the factory will engineer a better solution but I'd either never adjust the jumping hours or steer clear!

-TickleShoes

I'm glad someone finally got to the bottom of this.
 
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PhilRRS

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
17/4/17
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excellent. hoefully the factory will take notice.
 

brane

not pronounced like brain
Supporter
Certified
17/8/15
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Or Everyone could have Tickleshoes make them a 3186 Yuki!!!! You did this right? Expensive?

Awesome work buddy!
I wonder how many parts are usable from the 3135 and how much gen parts are needed.
 

RepPossessed

The UK dealer
Trusted Dealer
10/11/15
7,313
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I just got a CHS.. and im shitting myself about using it.

what would be your recommendation on how to use this watch with the least chance of it failing?
 

theREALgoat

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I just got a CHS.. and im shitting myself about using it.

what would be your recommendation on how to use this watch with the least chance of it failing?

Don't set the time often, especially the hour.
 

Tickleshoes

Renowned Member
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19/8/15
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45th Parallel
I just got a CHS.. and im shitting myself about using it.

what would be your recommendation on how to use this watch with the least chance of it failing?

Only use the first and last position (winding and time setting). The second/middle position is DANGER :)
 

airking

Renowned Member
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26/5/09
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Thank you for taking the time to share this!

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

RepPossessed

The UK dealer
Trusted Dealer
10/11/15
7,313
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Only use the first and last position (winding and time setting). The second/middle position is DANGER :)


Thanks brother.. I literally got it today and ive been too afraid to pull the crown out incase it implodes! lol all i could do was take a picture and look at it..

IMG_20170524_125222-X2_zps77djhrja.jpg
 

Soldier2304

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10/3/17
1,721
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Oh man! Thanks for the info on this issue. I have set the hour hand a couple times now without issues and ALWAYS clockwise as suggested by others, no issues so far crossing fingers. Love my BLNR and it would suck to break it