Buying, selling, avoiding scams and safe dealing

[n3tph4t]

I am sure that things like this have been done before, I just thought that as we’ve seen a slight increase in unpleasant characters and an influx of new members, a guide to buying and selling reps on RWI would be beneficial to those worried about making a sale or a purchase.

I hope you find a use for it ?:cheers:

 

[n3tph4t]

As a buyer

If you like this post or find it helpful then give it a rep point!

Pre Buying

• Decide on a budget and stick to it, you’ll see that patience is mentioned here more than almost any other word for good reason. If you’re too keen, you won’t get the best price and you’ll be more open to scammers taking advantage of your impatience
• When deciding upon a watch, search the forum for both the watch, the movement and the person or TD selling it to avoid finding negatives afterwards
• Do your research, learn the movements, the factories and the sellers

Buying From Trusted Dealers (TD’s)

• Protected to a degree by the forum admins
• Proven track record
• Searchable history of people’s experiences
• Considered to be safer than private sales
• May pay slightly more
• Ask for quality control (QC) pictures and review them closely to ensure you’re happy with the watch
• These may include dark (lume) shots, water test shots and timegrapher shots
• Be wary of any water testing not conducted on your behalf or by you. The back may have been off since, the gaskets dried out or anything else.
• Some dealers will offer a resend in the event that your item is proven to have been confiscated by customs

Buying From Private Sellers

• Many are trustworthy, experienced hobbyists and have bought and sold a number of items before
• Search for sales threads started by that user, you may also search for threads where the subject contains the users name
• Were they honest
• Did they get corrected on anything
• May be slightly cheaper
• Slightly riskier
• Ask to see a dark (lume shot)
• Lume can be made to look very good very easily with a DSLR – ask the shutter speed, ISO setting, aperture and any post processing effects, also ask what type of light it was exposed to and for how long
• Ask how long it remained visible to the naked eye
• Be wary of any water testing not conducted on your behalf or by you.
• Be aware that the back may have been off since, the gaskets dried out or anything else so be wary of water IMO
• Consider asking additional questions
• Where was it bought from/what version is it
• Any mods that have been done
• Any repairs or servicing
• This is a second hand watch, unless otherwise stated do not expect it to be perfect but do expect it to be as described

Buying From Wanted adverts

• Wanted adverts are a great way to let people know you want something (right?)
• Be careful of scammers using the wanted sections to identify potential targets. As outlined earlier, desperation makes scamming MUCH easier.
• Run a search, check the seller information and make sure they've sold before.
• Everyone has a first sale...in my opinion, if they're not a known member and have only posted pointless additions to threads, be aware.
• Check threads where the seller may have purchased watches, search for the watch model and posts from that person, you should find where they bought the watch. If they have neglected to mention anything mentioned in the original thread, ask about it.

How to Pay

• Paypal
• Pretty safe method of purchase and can be used to recover funds under certain circumstances (see below on resolving problems)
• Do not mention watch, replica, copy or anything similar in a paypal payment, you’ll likely get your own account stopped and your funds frozen by paypal.
• Western Union
• Fire and forget. If you use this method and experience problems, getting your money back is completely reliant on the seller
• Some TD’s may ask for this if you’ve not ordered from them before in order to protect their paypal account.
• Credit/Debit Card
• Often you’re protected by your card issuer
• Could be at risk of your details being misused
• Some card issuers will ask a lot of questions about what you were buying, where from and the precautions you took to avoid fraud
• Pay half now and half on arrival?
• Don’t do it, it’s a common scam used when you get cold feet on the full deal, it gives you an illusion of less risk
• Decide on a budget and stick to it, you’ll see that patience is mentioned here more than almost any other word for good reason. If you’re too keen, you won’t get the best price and you’ll be more open to scammers

Postage:

• ALWAYS select a trackable method of posting
• The buyer could post something like a stone but cannot send you nothing at all if it's tracked.
• Some trackable post requires ID for your peace of mind
• International postage takes time
• Be patient
• Be patient
• Relax
• Be patient
• Depending on your country and the sellers country, you may need to factor in customs charges, delays and confiscations, the odds are that you’ll be fine but be prepared.
• For countries with known strong customs issues (like some countries receiving direct from China) some people will offer triangular shipping. This is essentially shipping via another country with less issues. This is your choice whether you wish to take this or not.
• For UK (and no doubt others), some shipping methods appear to be more successful than others. Rather than list them here and risk contaminating those methods, speak to your TD and ask their advice and also which methods they will replace items under. You can then make an informed choice.

Once your purchase arrives:

• Check that the watch is functional (date changes, chronograph works, winder works etc)
• Check it’s fit for purpose and as described
• Let the seller know that it’s arrived and that you’re happy
• Post a thread and provide pictures
• Say where you got it and what you bought (it helps others decide where to buy from)
• Leave a review for the private seller or trader

 

[n3tph4t]

As a seller

Pre-advert

• Read Q5’s tips for member sales
• Read the sales rules

Photos
Here's some suggestions you can use to present your rep in the best possible light. The more you add, the more questions you'll have answered and the less you'll have to answer the same things by PM.

• Take good quality photo’s from all angles
• Include the caseback
• Include the bracelet/strap and clasp/buckle
• Include a lume shot
• Include a water shot if relevant
• Include a movement shot
• Store them on a hosted image service like ClickPix where large versions can be embedded in your advert easily

Advert text

• Clearly state where you got the watch (it can give people confidence in what they’re buying)
• How long you’ve had it and/or the condition
• Include time loss/gain per hour or day
• Include bracelet and strap condition
• Include scratches to non sapphire crystals
• State the Brand and Model of watch
• State the materials (PVD, stainless steel, leather strap etc)
• Working and faux functions of the watch (date, chrono, manual wind etc)
• The movement and whether it’s confirmed or assumed
• When you expect payment

Accepting payment

• Paypal - As a seller, you're protected to a degree once you have packaged and posted the goods so long as you retain proof of postage.
• Western Union - For a seller this is great as you just go and collect the money in case, job done. For a buyer though it's a high risk option.
• Google Wallet - No real experience of this
• Amazon payments - No real experience of this
• Cash (face to face) - If you're local and not a social recluse, go and meet the guy, have a beer and do the deal, start a friendship.

Shipment/Shipping

• Consider not offering a shipping method which is not trackable
• It protects you and the buyer to some degree
• Bare minimum, offer the buyer additional tracking options perhaps with a fee
• Package the item securely and within a well packaged box, tape it tightly and make sure the address is clear
• Provide the tracking number to the buyer with a link to the website they can use to track the purchase.
• Ask the buyer to let you know once it arrives safely, care about your buyer and he’ll buy from you again and tell others the same.

 

[n3tph4t]

Dealing with communications and disputes

Dealing with communications and disputes

• We’re dealing with multiple timezones, that means that your email or PM may miss the end of someone else day and you’re hanging around expecting a response within an hour which is unreasonable
• We’re dealing internationally and so various national holidays come into play.

Don’t panic. 9 times out of 10 there’s no problems just delays
Contact the buyer/seller at the level appropriate to the problem. The example below would be for a serious problem like a broken arrival or wrong item shipped perhaps

• Use their preferred communication method first (email or PM)
• Wait 24 hours
• Use their preferred method again and state that you’d like a response within 24 hours
• Use an alternate method of communication in case the first failed to reach them, explain that you’re trying to get in touch and that you’ll have to contact a mod if you don’t hear back
• Wait 24 hours
• Contact a mod and include the same information you’d expect to give the other party including:
• Link to the item
• Price paid, method used and date
• Any relevant dates of communications and a summary of content
• Keep it factual and short, the mods will ask anything they need that you’ve not provided
• [BLINK]DO NOT LAUNCH A PAYPAL CLAIM[/BLINK]
• If a paypal claim is the best course of action, the mods will tell you this and help talk you through it.

Most reps are made in Guangzhou somewhere by poorly paid women and children (you might not like it but hey!). It's often cheaper to have someone locally repair an item than it is to send it back to China. Especcially if the wait will kill you.

 

[jpohl402]

Very nice !!

 

[Painter6]

Good information.....thanks.

 

[n3tph4t]

Updated - added links to the docs
Updated - Removed all of the crappy word formatting and replaced it with tidier vbulletin BBCode

 

[Mike116]

Well done mate.I hope that saves a few people out there.compulsory reading I'd say for us newer people .

 

[frigpig]

Mods sticky please!

 

[n3tph4t]

Updated - Sellers payment options.

 

[MMs]

I think it's time to start looking away from PP and start adding Google Wallet and Amazon Payments

 

[n3tph4t]

I think it's time to start looking away from PP and start adding Google Wallet and Amazon Payments

Good point with the PP account freezes, alternatives are a must. Updated the sellers list. I dont have any experience of these services for reps, if people have some pros and cons I can add, I'd be happy to.

 

[trailboss99]

Very nice work! Moved to the FAQ section and stickied.

 

[drbollocko]

I think it's time to start looking away from PP and start adding Google Wallet and Amazon Payments

+1 Paypal has become a nightmare system, great for buyers, absolute pita for sellers. Something else is needed badly.


Great post N3, some very very good points. I don't mean to be picky but I do have to mention about asking privates sales for extreme detail on lume shots is gonna be met with a few raised eyebrows. Rep lume is unfortunately rep lume, and is on 95% of all reps. Anywhere there is factory superlume it will be well documented in reviews of the watch elsewhere. IMO it is up the the buyer to go looking and research how good the lume on that particular watch is, factory superlumed or not. The only reason I see to have a lume shot at all is if a watch was lumed by a third party.
Hopefully sellers can get into disclosing hard to describe in photos info like crown tube screw down quality/action etc.

 

[sgtguk]

Really informative post, good on ya! Big Thank you for putting this together for New & Old members alike !

 

[rols16610]

Great info mate +1

 

[n3tph4t]

+1 Paypal has become a nightmare system, great for buyers, absolute pita for sellers. Something else is needed badly.


Great post N3, some very very good points. I don't mean to be picky but I do have to mention about asking privates sales for extreme detail on lume shots is gonna be met with a few raised eyebrows. Rep lume is unfortunately rep lume, and is on 95% of all reps. Anywhere there is factory superlume it will be well documented in reviews of the watch elsewhere. IMO it is up the the buyer to go looking and research how good the lume on that particular watch is, factory superlumed or not. The only reason I see to have a lume shot at all is if a watch was lumed by a third party.
Hopefully sellers can get into disclosing hard to describe in photos info like crown tube screw down quality/action etc.

Very good point, one thing I will specify explicitly is that these are suggestions and ideals rather than anything dictatorial.
We are trying to sell something and the key is to answer questions before they're asked, it's a fine balance isn't it.

I'll update it though to make it clear that I'm only suggesting.


EDIT - updated to say that these are suggestions to improve the likelyhood of getting less questions.

 

[n3tph4t]

Very nice work! Moved to the FAQ section and stickied.

Wow, didn't expect that! Cheers :cheers:

 

[boostin20]

I think it's time to start looking away from PP and start adding Google Wallet and Amazon Payments

Definitely; both of those are extremely easy to use. Paypal is a giant PITA. I'm extremely tired of them putting temp holds on my account. It's happened 3 times in the last year, with each investigation period lasting 3 weeks. F**K you PP.

 

[razorblade]

Fantastic write up! Cracking job, mate!

Now, all noobs must read this.