Patek Philippe 6102R Celestial Moon Age. Astronomical disappointment. Modifications not possible.

[DamienV]

It seems it has become quite a task to get your hand on one of those babies at the moment.

I'm working quite hard with JTime to get a SkyMoon and so far I came empty handed.

It has been two months and we crossed out every option out there:
- the cheap sub 300 (but with the right star pattern in blue) is not available at the factory in blue or black
- the old 5102 is nowhere to be seen in blue or black
- the 6102/6104 V1 is not available at the factory in blue or black
- the 6102/6104 V2 is not available at the factory in blue or black

I was really hoping for the V2 in blue which has the two star layers in the right color (yellow) compared to the V1 which has a stupid white over yellow (I guess, it's the byproduct of lazyness after doing the black model first in the factory).

If you have any news about availability on your side, I would be very interested.
On my side, I agreed with JTime to seat it again until early may and if it's still not available, I will have to ask for a refund and wait until it becomes available again.
If any update come through, I will update it here.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

It seems it has become quite a task to get your hand on one of those babies at the moment.

I'm working quite hard with JTime to get a SkyMoon and so far I came empty handed.

It has been two months and we crossed out every option out there:
- the cheap sub 300 (but with the right star pattern in blue) is not available at the factory in blue or black
- the old 5102 is nowhere to be seen in blue or black
- the 6102/6104 V1 is not available at the factory in blue or black
- the 6102/6104 V2 is not available at the factory in blue or black

I was really hoping for the V2 in blue which has the two star layers in the right color (yellow) compared to the V1 which has a stupid white over yellow (I guess, it's the byproduct of lazyness after doing the black model first in the factory).

If you have any news about availability on your side, I would be very interested.
On my side, I agreed with JTime to seat it again until early may and if it's still not available, I will have to ask for a refund and wait until it becomes available again.
If any update come through, I will update it here.

Can you try Fat Panda (Watchfinder)? I bought it from him. And i asked him the other day. He has some versions availabe.
Maybe it has become unavailable because they are releasing a new version. Many of the flaws in the current verison could easily be fixed as per my review.

 

[DamienV]

Well, the situation is kinda problematic for me right now. I asked a few TD by the end of february and JTime was the quickest to answer and I sent him the money for order since he is quite reliable.
Fat Panda did also answer me by March 10 (it was already too late): "we can only get the 6102 from TWF" was the answer.

What really annoys me in this story is that I can get the factory pictures from what I think is the V2 from JTime but he also tells me it is not available and it seems he has no clue when it will be available again (1 month, 6 months?).

Anyway, if you want to have a look, the pictures: https://imgur.com/a/eVbe5bE
He got them from Wechat from what I was reading in the chinese file name.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

Well, the situation is kinda problematic for me right now. I asked a few TD by the end of february and JTime was the quickest to answer and I sent him the money for order since he is quite reliable.
Fat Panda did also answer me by March 10 (it was already too late): "we can only get the 6102 from TWF" was the answer.

What really annoys me in this story is that I can get the factory pictures from what I think is the V2 from JTime but he also tells me it is not available and it seems he has no clue when it will be available again (1 month, 6 months?).

Anyway, if you want to have a look, the pictures: https://imgur.com/a/eVbe5bE
He got them from Wechat from what I was reading in the chinese file name.

The one you have sent pictures of, is the one i've described in versions no. 1. It's the TWF V1:

1. Then there is the TWF version, which is the most flawed. It’s thickness is a nice 11mm, but the dates are descending instead of ascending.

And there is a spelling mistake on the movement “Pnilippe”. Also there are very few stars on the dial and the moons are weird looking like on the watch mentioned in the review. It doesn't have the "moving stars disk".

 

[DamienV]

Oh yeah, you are right, I forgot about the obvious Pnilippe. It reminds me of my Co-Axiol Seamaster...

I am wondering how many version there are of this TWF replica because one of the older model has also a big flaw from the star pattern.
For the blue 6102P, the second star layer is white...which means you have yellow star over a blue dial and then a second layer of white star.
I guess they made the black and white one first and juste took the second star disk to put it in the blue version.

I was under the impression that the V2 fixed that star problem but maybe it was just a quick fix on V1.

Clearly, from your DHGate finding, the star pattern is closer to gen and they got the calendar right.
I tried to contact the DHGate seller to grab more info but he has not replied so far.
Meanwhile, I will try to see with JTime what is going on with this V2 by giving him the link to DHGate.
Hopefully, I will report back soon with more info.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

Oh yeah, you are right, I forgot about the obvious Pnilippe. It reminds me of my Co-Axiol Seamaster...

I am wondering how many version there are of this TWF replica because one of the older model has also a big flaw from the star pattern.
For the blue 6102P, the second star layer is white...which means you have yellow star over a blue dial and then a second layer of white star.
I guess they made the black and white one first and juste took the second star disk to put it in the blue version.

I was under the impression that the V2 fixed that star problem but maybe it was just a quick fix on V1.

Clearly, from your DHGate finding, the star pattern is closer to gen and they got the calendar right.
I tried to contact the DHGate seller to grab more info but he has not replied so far.
Meanwhile, I will try to see with JTime what is going on with this V2 by giving him the link to DHGate.
Hopefully, I will report back soon with more info.

You are right about those considerations. Also about the DHGate version. But it doesn’t show the back of its a micro rotor or a normal rotor. Also the thickness can’t be seen on the DHGate rep.

interesting which one JTime can get. Please do update when you know more.

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

For what its worth, making the dial glossy shouldn’t be too hard. You need lacquer, and some fine grades of wet and dry paper. Do a nice thick flood coat, then work from say 600 grade up to around 3000 and give it a buff at the end. Should be shiny like a sub dial. If this is now a learning watch, maybe get some spare dials from ebay (i could send you a few) and practice the process then try it on this one. The learning curve of the hobby cant be trying at times but its really fun when it goes right

 

[jm_brc_7057]

For what its worth, making the dial glossy shouldn’t be too hard. You need lacquer, and some fine grades of wet and dry paper. Do a nice thick flood coat, then work from say 600 grade up to around 3000 and give it a buff at the end. Should be shiny like a sub dial. If this is now a learning watch, maybe get some spare dials from ebay (i could send you a few) and practice the process then try it on this one. The learning curve of the hobby cant be trying at times but its really fun when it goes right

That sounds really fun to learn mate
but I see this watch as a lost cause :/ Because there is no lip to open the bezel. So if I got the dial painted with more stars, made it shiny with the lacquering procedure you described, and got the moon shape corrected. It would still require for me to buy a new watch and install these parts in it. And if the bezel doesn’t have a lip to open it, would scratch the case again :/

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

That sounds really fun to learn mate
but I see this watch as a lost cause :/ Because there is no lip to open the bezel. So if I got the dial painted with more stars, made it shiny with the lacquering procedure you described, and got the moon shape corrected. It would still require for me to buy a new watch and install these parts in it. And if the bezel doesn’t have a lip to open it, would scratch the case again :/

Theres plenty of people/kits out there to re-plate. You said you werent super happy with the colour to start with. There must be a small indent to open it somewhere? Or an overhang you can press down on? I had a breguet i had a similar problem with, stick with it, you’ll crack it! Have a few beers and come at it from a new angle

 

[DamienV]

If you want to have a good laugh, while looking around for the V2, I found this: https://www.dhgate.com/product/super-clone-brand-luxury-watch-6104g-001/390231401.html

 

[jm_brc_7057]

So here is what i've experienced from this watch. It's front loaded and the bezel looks pretty impossible to open without scratching the case, because there is no "lip" to put in a tool and open it.

But if you get it opened, here is what needs to be done:

The hands are removed in the picture, pretend they are still there

The rehaut bezel can be removed easily, just lift it:

Then you have to remove the moving seconds hand disk, which is also easy. It's just fixated on a central pinion on the hand stack:

Then you remove the hands and paint them white like the gen. They are kind of greyish on the gen.

Next part is to lift the main disk, it lies loose in between the hands and can just be lifted when the hands are removed:

This disk needs to be modded. First of all painted more stars and secondly lacquer it like described by Dr Fun Socks , so that it becomes shiny like the gen. Both are a bit tricky. Painting more stars could maybe be done with a needle.

Beneath you find the moon phase disk. It has wrong shape and color of the moons:

It should instead be attached a white layer on it with black circles the size of the opening in the main disk:

So that it looks like this when the main disk is turned around on top of the moon phase disk:

This part could be done using a printer and photo paper.


These are the mods that needs to be done for this watch to be a really great rep, which is very similar to the gen!

I can see and plan what needs to be done, but unfortunately i don't possess the skills required to open the bezel properly, paint the stars on the main disk and lacquer it shiny. The moon phase layer i could make by printing on photo paper.

 

[Dr Fun Socks]

Have you looked at the various bezel removal tools available? Theres one that sort of looks like 4 knife blades and 90 degrees to each other that come in and lift it off. I think you can get one for about £20-£30 on ebay. It might seem like a lot of work now but if you can pull it off, you would he absolutely over the moon with the watch!

forgot to say if you get the type i mentioned, obviously tape up the knifes to prevent scratching...

 

[jm_brc_7057]

Well, the situation is kinda problematic for me right now. I asked a few TD by the end of february and JTime was the quickest to answer and I sent him the money for order since he is quite reliable.
Fat Panda did also answer me by March 10 (it was already too late): "we can only get the 6102 from TWF" was the answer.

What really annoys me in this story is that I can get the factory pictures from what I think is the V2 from JTime but he also tells me it is not available and it seems he has no clue when it will be available again (1 month, 6 months?).

Anyway, if you want to have a look, the pictures: https://imgur.com/a/eVbe5bE
He got them from Wechat from what I was reading in the chinese file name.

Hey mate. I just talked to Tim (Fat Panda). He sent me the pictures of the updated TWF version he can get.

This version is actually interesting. Because they have corrected some of the flaws.

First of all this version doesn't have the "Pnilippe" spelling mistake. Thats good. Secondly this version doesn't have a moving seconds hand disc. Thirdly this version in platinum has a diamond on the case at 6, which is a very nice feature.

Only flaws in this updated TWF version i see are:

1. The moon phase disc still has incorrect shape/color of moons (all current versions has this flaw).
2. The main disk lacks stars, there are not as many as the gen, and it's not shiny like the gen (all current versions has this flaw).
3. The dates are running the wrong way. They are descending clockwise, instead of ascending.

But i think this version out of the box, is maybe better, because only flaw it has which some of the other versions don't, is number 3. Personally i would rather accept descending dates, than a moving seconds disc, which is absolutely horrendous.

So i am considering to order this version from Fat Panda.

 

[DamienV]

Good news, I think if I still struggle with JTime, I will ask for a refund and go with FatPanda.

From what I understand now, the one we see on DHGate is the cheap version (sub 300$) with no micro-rotors such as this one : http://www.trb88.club/index.php?rout...roduct_id=2709
They got the right calendar and it seems they have also the right star pattern...that's unfortunate.

I also tried to print in resin the star disk to see what I can do but it is almost impossible to paint, too many stars and too tiny.

 

[DamienV]

I really don't understand, a friend from reddit shared with me two recent videos with what seems to be the TWF version but they got the calendar right and the pnillipe corrected.

- A TD from 2 weeks ago : https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDYxMTU5Nzc3Mg==.html?spm=a2h0c.8166622.PhoneSokuUgc_1.dtitle

- Another video from a few weeks ago : https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDQ1NzA0NjgwMA==.html?spm=a2h0c.8166622.PhoneSokuUgc_7.dtitle

You need to switch in 520p with the button to the left of the sound icon.

I really don't get how many model are out there.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

I really don't understand, a friend from reddit shared with me two recent videos with what seems to be the TWF version but they got the calendar right and the pnillipe corrected.

- A TD from 2 weeks ago : https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDYxMTU5Nzc3Mg==.html?spm=a2h0c.8166622.PhoneSokuUgc_1.dtitle

- Another video from a few weeks ago : https://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDQ1NzA0NjgwMA==.html?spm=a2h0c.8166622.PhoneSokuUgc_7.dtitle

You need to switch in 520p with the button to the left of the sound icon.

I really don't get how many model are out there.

Mate both the videos you have sent are the same as mine reviewed watch. They both have the moving seconds disk, wrong moon color/shape. And if you remove the seconds disk, the main disk will have too few stars.

It's promising what you are doing with the print on paper. Let me know the progress.

Also the link you have sent from Toro Bravo. That watch is too thick. It's the old rep. I don't even think you can get it anymore. But that one had the correct moon color and shape. But it too had the moving seconds disk, which has to be removed.

 

[DamienV]

Mate both the videos you have sent are the same as mine reviewed watch. They both have the moving seconds disk, wrong moon color/shape. And if you remove the seconds disk, the main disk will have too few stars.

It's promising what you are doing with the print on paper. Let me know the progress.

Also the link you have sent from Toro Bravo. That watch is too thick. It's the old rep. I don't even think you can get it anymore. But that one had the correct moon color and shape. But it too had the moving seconds disk, which has to be removed.

Sorry, I was kinda lost between TWF versions.
If I understand correctly, we have :
- The older cheap rep without micro-rotors, lots of flaw but a nice star pattern
- The TWF V1 version with also a lot of flaw exposed in your first post
- The TWF V2 version you have
- Possibly a TWF V3 version (DHGATE links) which could also be a resell from the "older cheap rep". That would be strange because every TD told me that it was absolutely not available anywhere when I started to chase for this rep.

For the star pattern, I printed it with my resin printer on a 34mm disc. It looks alright but not paintable unless you are doing it quite litteraly with a pin head!
I will try to put some pictures online.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

Sorry, I was kinda lost between TWF versions.
If I understand correctly, we have :
- The older cheap rep without micro-rotors, lots of flaw but a nice star pattern
- The TWF V1 version with also a lot of flaw exposed in your first post
- The TWF V2 version you have
- Possibly a TWF V3 version (DHGATE links) which could also be a resell from the "older cheap rep". That would be strange because every TD told me that it was absolutely not available anywhere when I started to chase for this rep.

For the star pattern, I printed it with my resin printer on a 34mm disc. It looks alright but not paintable unless you are doing it quite litteraly with a pin head!
I will try to put some pictures online.

I know buddy, it's confusing. But about the versions, you are right. Also there is a GRF version of the watch which is similar to the V1 TWF (descending dates, few stars, incorrect moons, no pnilippe error), but it has a moving second disk like the reviewed watch (TWF V2) so it's not better.

Regarding the star pattern. Is it possible that you could print it on a decal paper? Dr Fun Socks gave me that idea. If it's possible, it can be adhered on top of the main dial. And on top of it's possible to spray some lacquer on it. In that way it's possible to obtain more stars and a shiny surface on top of the main dial. You can see this guy do it in the last part of the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt1nmSqS-Ps&app=desktop

White decal paper could be used to make the 5 black moons and adhere that to the moon disk. Thereby we can solve all three flaws.

He also gave me the idea that one could buy a bezel opening tool to avoid scratching the case when opening a bezel without a "lip". That could give access to removing the moving seconds disk and the other mods.

 

[DamienV]

Yeah, I also thought about transfer paper. I have some custom dial project for which I will use that but it does not really work on 3D surfaces.

I see in your screen that the disk is flat, I was under the impression that the star were in 3D on gen.
I kind of see little shadows for every star on the official website : https://static.patek.com/images/arti...102P_001_6.jpg
Maybe those are shadow from the second layer of star.

Right now, I cannot send anything since most post office are closed but it should get better around mid-may or early june.
The tricky part would be the gear wheel under the disk, I would need the exact measurement to get it right so that it can rotate.
From what I can see, sticking another disk on top of original one is also out of question, even if I can get down to 0.5 mm thickness it will be too much.

https://imgur.com/a/lUECk8P If you want to get an idea. I killed them by trying to paint with different techniques.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

I kind of see little shadows for every star on the official website : https://static.patek.com/images/arti...102P_001_6.jpg

In the gen the stars are printed on a sapphire disc. The bottom of the disk is black (or blue). So you have this effect like the stars are "elevated" because of the sapphire disc and cast a shadow.

Yeah, I also thought about transfer paper. I have some custom dial project for which I will use that but it does not really work on 3D surfaces.

I see. The main disk is not in 3D, but the moon phase disk is.

The tricky part would be the gear wheel under the disk, I would need the exact measurement to get it right so that it can rotate.
From what I can see, sticking another disk on top of original one is also out of question, even if I can get down to 0.5 mm thickness it will be too much.

https://imgur.com/a/lUECk8P If you want to get an idea. I killed them by trying to paint with different techniques.

I can see that. I think it will be better to do it with decal paper. Can be near impossible to paint by hand i think.

I don't think there's much space to make a new disk. But a decal layer on top of the moon disk could be possible, as it's smaller than the main disk.

But it's a lot of work to get this right.