ZZF V2 Bezel not flush

[Fedon06]

Hi everyone,

been enjoying my ZZF V2 for 2 months now but after discovering the bezel didn’t quite kiss the case, removing it and having it pressed again by my watchmaker, the bezel now sits quite far from the case.
It sits higher than the xtal and it really started to catch my eye. Here is the current look;

https://ibb.co/B4bvMB5
https://imgbb.com/cJwPq5f

so the nylon fastening ring was not in the best shape when I removed the bezel but anyways we installed it again in the bezel. But later I read that during service, that nylon ring is replaced every time the bezel is removed.

Does anyone have a solution in mind? Maybe I can order a new nylon ring from my TD, do they sell these minor spare parts?

any help is appreciated! Many thanks!

 

[KJ2020]

That not only looks really bad, but is unsafe as the whole bezel could come off and you lose or damage it or lose the click, the springs and the balls.

The bezel gasket is called a hytrel ring. They are unique to individual reps in size and some have differing stairstep profiles on the side that fits under the crystal retaining ring lip. TDs will not source a replacement ring for you, and aftermarket or gen ones likely will not fit any given rep. Gen ones are crazy expensive, like $100 or more for a blister of two.

You have a few options

1. Buy a cheap or dead watch or a rep bezel being sold after it was replaced with a gen. Scavenge the hytrel ring or the whole bezel to use on your watch. Many rep bezels can be swapped around, sometimes you need the donor watch crystal retaining ring also. This is the piece that has a lip that the hytrel ring anchors the bezel under.

2. Try using a piece of fishline as a replacement for the hytrel ring. You would have to experiment to find the correct diameter thickness, somewhere between 0.55 and 0.65mm. I have done this mod a few times, it can be done so the bezel still rotates normally. See this thread if interested in this approach.

Noob GMT Pepsi's poor bezel design

3. Remove the bezel, take the mangled hytrel ring out and epoxy the bezel to the case. Obviously it won't rotate but I'm serious when I say I would choose this over what you have now. Try to save the 4 springs, the 3 balls, and the click so you can attempt repair #1 or #2 at a later date. Epoxy is easily dissolved with acetone so this is not an irreversible fix. You would of course need to remove the movement, the crystal and all gaskets and O rings before soaking in acetone.

Some more pics and info about a Sub bezel and springs and balls in this thread

My Molotow Cocktail

 

[guybythelake]

I am surprised to see that bezel is attached. I would suspect that the ring outside of the crystal is unseated. Once that ring is flushed against the case and the hytrel ring is ok and installed in correct orientation it should be ok... if the crystal is still too low, (which my zzf v2 is and updated to a taller crystal gasket) then install a taller crystal gasket.

I can not stress the make sure hytrel ring can only go one way. If you install it the other way, you cant seat the bezel properly. Also i repeat the ring around the crystal has a notch, that it where the hytrel ring is going over it. And that ring should be pressed in all the way securely. Epoxy for bezel should be the very very very last of last resort. Imho

 

[KJ2020]

Good point about the crystal retaining ring possibly not being fully pressed down flush onto the case. This may have been the initial cause of the bezel not sitting flush on the case too, as the two parts are connected together via the hytrel ring.

You could remove the bezel again and inspect the seating of the crystal retaining ring against the case. If it isn't flush, it should be pressed down so it is.

Unfortunately once a hytrel ring is mangled it is seldom recoverable. If only a small part of it is mangled, it can be cut out and the rest used as an incomplete circle, the same as a piece of fishline would be.

Examine the hytrel ring inner perimeter. Some have a stairstep profile as mentioned. If yours does you can try flipping it over and repressing the bezel. You may need to cut out a small mangled section. I have always been able to seat a bezel regardless of gasket orientation, it just wouldn't rotate if the gasket was in upside down. YMMV.

 

[tumad]

Ok, your images wont open, but heres the thing.
Put tape over the lugs and with a suitable tool (I use a potato peeler, the handheld curved versions) pry off the bezel.
You will most likely have the complete bezel in your hands and hopefully the Xtal and retainer (Nylon ring) still on teh case. If not, refit that in the mean time making sure the lazer crown is at the 6 position

Now you need to dissassemble the bezel components. Put the case and balls and springs aside for now
With a jewlers flat screwdriver, slowly insert between bezel insert and retaining (spinning part) of the complete bezel and carefully pry them apart. Keep well away from the pearl part. Rotate and pry slowly untill they fall apart
If you are sucessfull, the insert will eventually pop off. Be patient.
Once you have the insert off, remove the steel retaining ring from the bezel and put it UNDERNEATH the bezel ring. The thicker part points to the top. At this point, reassemble the balls and springs onto the case.
Now with the bezel ring and retainer ring (underneath) press the bezel ring (with retainer ring underneath) onto the watch. You will hear it POP on.
You will notice that the retainer ring is not flush against the case at this point.
This retainer ring actually holds the crystal and bezel into place. You now need to put the watch flat on the tabel (split the strap) and carefully with the jewlers srewdriver and a heavier screwdriver wooden handle of sorts, tap the retainer ring flat onto the watch case so that when looking from the side, there is a minimal (no) gap between the bottom of the bezel and the case. It should rotate freely with the clicking sound.
When you have gone all around the watch, checking for any play and the retainer ring looks even all around, the crystal should be flat and the retainer ring have the same amount visible from the top of the crystal.

At this pont, and when you are happy, you can replace the bezel insert holder (steel ring and convex side down) and the bezel insert. Line the pearl up at 12 o clock and press that into place first. then with thumbs on either side, work your way to the 6 oclock position until the insert pops into place evenly.

 

[Fedon06]

That not only looks really bad, but is unsafe as the whole bezel could come off and you lose or damage it or lose the click, the springs and the balls.

The bezel gasket is called a hytrel ring. They are unique to individual reps in size and some have differing stairstep profiles on the side that fits under the crystal retaining ring lip. TDs will not source a replacement ring for you, and aftermarket or gen ones likely will not fit any given rep. Gen ones are crazy expensive, like $100 or more for a blister of two.

You have a few options

1. Buy a cheap or dead watch or a rep bezel being sold after it was replaced with a gen. Scavenge the hytrel ring or the whole bezel to use on your watch. Many rep bezels can be swapped around, sometimes you need the donor watch crystal retaining ring also. This is the piece that has a lip that the hytrel ring anchors the bezel under.

2. Try using a piece of fishline as a replacement for the hytrel ring. You would have to experiment to find the correct diameter thickness, somewhere between 0.55 and 0.65mm. I have done this mod a few times, it can be done so the bezel still rotates normally. See this thread if interested in this approach.

Noob GMT Pepsi's poor bezel design

3. Remove the bezel, take the mangled hytrel ring out and epoxy the bezel to the case. Obviously it won't rotate but I'm serious when I say I would choose this over what you have now. Try to save the 4 springs, the 3 balls, and the click so you can attempt repair #1 or #2 at a later date. Epoxy is easily dissolved with acetone so this is not an irreversible fix. You would of course need to remove the movement, the crystal and all gaskets and O rings before soaking in acetone.

Some more pics and info about a Sub bezel and springs and balls in this thread

My Molotow Cocktail

thanks for the input, my friend! Finding a decent tep would be hard for my country and fishline may be done.

or I was thinking of 3d printing the piece as I have a printer will give it a go on Monday,

also do you know if ZZF V2 has a rectangular plastic or the L ones?

 

[Fedon06]

Hi again everyone,

So I wandered through internet to find other victims of the bezel-sits-higher-than-the-xtal case and man, I found them.

long story short, I think I need to shabe my xtal retaining ring a bit to achieve the perfect sit for the bezel.

now I have a dremel tool and some files to do the job, but I never did such mods on a watch ever. Can anyone share a walkthrough on how to do it, what part of the ring to shave etc.

any help appreciated!

 

[KJ2020]

Hi again everyone,

So I wandered through internet to find other victims of the bezel-sits-higher-than-the-xtal case and man, I found them.

long story short, I think I need to shabe my xtal retaining ring a bit to achieve the perfect sit for the bezel.

now I have a dremel tool and some files to do the job, but I never did such mods on a watch ever. Can anyone share a walkthrough on how to do it, what part of the ring to shave etc.

any help appreciated!

An excellent tutorial in the link below bro.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...5331-fixing-the-wonky-bezel-on-an-arf-sd43-v3

I would try a replacement hytrel ring first though. You are going to need one anyway. If you take too much off the retaining ring, you may give yourself another issue getting the bezel to stay on at all.

If you can wait a few days, I'll take my ZZF bezel off and give you some measurements of the hytrel ring. I need to finish another project first.

 

[Fedon06]

An excellent tutorial in the link below bro.

https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...5331-fixing-the-wonky-bezel-on-an-arf-sd43-v3

I would try a replacement hytrel ring first though. You are going to need one anyway. If you take too much off the retaining ring, you may give yourself another issue getting the bezel to stay on at all.

If you can wait a few days, I'll take my ZZF bezel off and give you some measurements of the hytrel ring. I need to finish another project first.

Thanks for sharing, will definitely try the hytrel replacement first I would be extremely happy if you could check your zzf hytrel about the dimensions, then I’ll get to work )

 

[KJ2020]

Thanks for sharing, will definitely try the hytrel replacement first I would be extremely happy if you could check your zzf hytrel about the dimensions, then I’ll get to work )

After prying my bezel off the retaining ring and crystal stayed in place again, which I'm always happy about. The retaining ring looked ever so slightly non-flush on one end so I pressed it down firmly before proceeding any further. An old 16570 Explorer II bezel is perfect for pressing 29.5mm Rolex crystal retaining rings.

The ZZF hytrel ring is flush on the inner perimeter and has a stairstep profile on the outer perimeter.

The gasket groove has an upper border that protrudes further out than the lower border. The gasket goes in with the "top step" oriented DOWN, toward the case.

Edit: This was originally stated incorrectly, I put it all back together and it fit flush but wouldn't rotate. So I had to pull it apart again and flip the gasket. D'oh.

Below are the measurements I took. I measured the gasket several different times and ways, in place for some, removed for others. All of the measurements have been rounded slightly for ease of computation and for symmetry. I believe a gasket made to these specs will work. All units are in mm.

OD bottom 33
OD top 32.25
ID 31.5
Height .75
Thickness .75
Step height and width .375

This this has been done before on a different watch by our forum master watchmaker Tickleshoes, so hopefully I gave you accurate enough info to succeed. Good luck!

 

[Fedon06]

Amazing input man! Thank you!! I will get on to work this week to craft a hytrel ring. Will let you know on the updates!

 

[KJ2020]

Amazing input man! Thank you!! I will get on to work this week to craft a hytrel ring. Will let you know on the updates!

Please note the edit correction from my post above:

"The gasket goes in with the "top step" oriented DOWN, toward the case.

Edit: This was originally stated incorrectly, I put it all back together and it fit flush but wouldn't rotate. So I had to pull it apart again and flip the gasket. D'oh."

Also, If your insert has not been removed you may want to do so before pressing the bezel back on. Either way you do it there is risk of cracking the insert.

With a pressure fit insert like the ZZF, The insert will hand press most of the way in, then a die with a notch cut out for the pearl can be used to gently press the insert home. There is usually a snapping noise as the insert hits the insert support ring.

If leaving the insert in to press the bezel, a die with a pearl cutout notch should still be used, and preferably a die that does not press on the insert itself but only on the bezel.

I prefer to press the bezel back on with the insert out. In your situation, I would recommend that since you might have to remove and replace your bezel a few times to tweak your gasket. You can sand nylon gaskets a little if too tight for example.

 

[Ro13x]

KJ2020 Your DIY tutorials are perfect for me as I am a beginner of modding RLX reps.
Just bought 4 old Subs to try those steps shown above!
Thank you very much for sharing this knowledge.

 

[KJ2020]

KJ2020 Your DIY tutorials are perfect for me as I am a beginner of modding RLX reps.
Just bought 4 old Subs to try those steps shown above!
Thank you very much for sharing this knowledge.

Be careful taking bezels off older 4 and 5 digit Subs bro. Many of them have the infamous 8 sided paperclip holding the bezel on. You can't just pry these off, you have to remove the insert first which often means popping the crystal out to get under the insert from below. With the insert out you grab an end of the wire and work it loose one segment at a time.

 

[Ro13x]

Thank you for that 5 digit update but I am only working on the 6 digit Subs.

Just a quick question what is the better way to reinstall the bezel?

1)
Press on the retaining ring which holds the gasket and crystal first and after that the bezel ring or

2)
press on all together in one step as I also have seen?

Is there a risk to damage the bezel ring when pressing it on the gasket retaining ring?

I nave also seen that someone pressed on the retaining ring with the gasket and after that the crystal?

So which is the easiest and best step to not damage something.

EDIT:
Here is the tutorial I mean with pressing the whole assembly without the crystal back on the case:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...-rolex-submariner-116610-ln-lower-crystal-mag

 

[KJ2020]

Thank you for that 5 digit update but I am only working on the 6 digit Subs.

Just a quick question what is the better way to reinstall the bezel?

1)
Press on the retaining ring which holds the gasket and crystal first and after that the bezel ring or

2)
press on all together in one step as I also have seen?

Is there a risk to damage the bezel ring when pressing it on the gasket retaining ring?

I nave also seen that someone pressed on the retaining ring with the gasket and after that the crystal?

So which is the easiest and best step to not damage something.

EDIT:
Here is the tutorial I mean with pressing the whole assembly without the crystal back on the case:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...er-crystal-mag

The "correct" way according to the Rolex manual is to assemble all the parts separately - crystal, crystal gasket and retaining ring, and bezel assembly (bezel, insert, insert support ring), put all the springs and balls plus the click in place and then press the assembled parts onto the case. But they manufacture lovely expensive tools for doing this that involves vacuum suction for removal and perfectly placed pressure for replacement.

So with reps we have to improvise. We have to develop our own set of steps that work for us given the constraints of our available tools and our preferences regarding proper placement of parts.

I didn't see in that other thread you linked where he talked about not putting the crystal in til last, but that is not something I will ever do. The crystal gasket becomes too tight once the crystal retaining ring is seated to then force the crystal in without risking damage to either part.

There are differences in rep parts among even 6 digit Rolexes, so what works on one rep might not work on another. Crystal side edge profiles can be different, crystal gaskets can vary in height and thickness, retaining rings can vary in height, thickness, and shape. Some reps don't have a separate crystal retaining ring, it's a protrusion that was milled into the case.

The crystal on the left is gen-spec. A gen-spec crystal gasket has a lip on the top rim that fits into that groove so you can see how forcing a crystal past a tightened gasket could damage the gasket by crushing the top rim.

You also need to figure out for yourself how you want to do several things. Like lining up the cyclops with the tube, and lining up the insert triangle with the dial. Do you want to do these things with the movement in the case or out? I disagree with one of the things in the other post that said to align the dial with the rehaut crown and then the crystal with the dial. That will not work in all cases. It's far more important to have the movement aligned with the tube and let the dial go where it will on the rehaut. Then align the cyclops to the dial. I am not a fan of forcing a movement to a stressed position for the sake of making the dial look aligned with a rehaut crown. If the rehaut crown is really centered properly and the dial is off substantially, then its feet need to be adjusted so it can be rotated a little on the movement. This also may mean shifting the datewheel overlay and then adjusting the cyclops position to be aligned with the tube. Otherwise, just live with the rehaut being off in favor of the dial and the crystal/cyclops being perfectly positioned with no needlessly imposed stress on the stem and crown.

So, my preferred sequence for removing and replacing these parts is as follows (modded slightly and re-posted from another thread):

1. Remove crown and stem
2. Remove movement
3. Remove bezel, and remove insert from bezel (optional)
4. Use crystal press and die to push crystal out from inside if it doesn't lift up with the bezel
5. Pry up crystal retaining ring with a case knife ‐ tape up the case for protection
6. Seat new crystal and selected gasket
7. Hand fit movement and dial temporarily to evaluate date mag, adjust gasket height as needed - align the stem hole through the tube or put the stem in loosely. Align the crystal with the movement/dial
8. Press retaining ring over the seated crystal and gasket making sure the crystal doesn't rotate
9. Replace bezel
10. Reinstall movement and stem/crown
11. Align the insert triangle with the 60 minute tic mark and press the insert if it was removed.

This can be done without removing the movement by skipping steps 1,2, 4. My preference is to remove the movement to avoid damage and contaminants to dial and hands.

Note that with GMT bezels, there are scalloped arcs in the retaining ring that need to be aligned the same way they were if the insert isn't taken out. You can put little Sharpie arcs on the case in about 3 places next to some scallops.

Excellent pictorial here:

https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...blro-vvvlllooo

I will add that the bezel gasket (hytrel ring) is an incredibly important part that is essentially irreplaceable unless you can make one (3D printer or fishline). So it needs to be treated with exceptional care. Leave it in the bezel groove if possible, if not be sure to note how it goes back in or you'll have to take the bezel off again to re-seat it.

 

[Ro13x]

Thank you very much for the detailed description I will take it as a guid for my first work!
Today I ordered my crystal press what do you say is this thing OK?

 

[KJ2020]

Thank you very much for the detailed description I will take it as a guid for my first work!
Today I ordered my crystal press what do you say is this thing OK?

That looks OK. I don't see any threads but many of these with round handles are the screw down type. I have a screw down press and they have their uses but I also have a simple lever press for more delicate and controlled pressing like reinstalling an insert.

 

[Hinclimincli]

I might be late for the party but here’s what I know so far:

1. Crystal gasket on the ZZF is too low, hence your stock crystal is already sitting low. I ordered a 3mm gasket from Clarks (eBay) and sorted it out easily.

2. Stock ZZF insert sits really high on the bezel, basically flush. This accentuates the low crystal effect. Solution: take the insert out and use a Drexel with a diamond disk to slightly sand it down.

3. WSO hytrel rings DO work on my ZZF V2S bezel (which I am incredibly happy to have found out). It takes some patience to fit them but you can definitely fit them and your bezel will sit nicely in its place, which along with the sanded insert and new crystal gasket will bring your ZZF to new heights! (See what I did there?)

4. Bonus track/Finishing touch: buy a fine brush, a pot of Humbrol enamel paint (aluminium metalcote I think it’s the exact colour, or just search my posts for the correct ref. num.). Paint the numerals and enjoy!

Sorry I don’t have pictures, it’s quite late here already but I’ll try to take some natural light photos of the finished watch tomorrow. I hope it can still help!

 

[Hinclimincli]

So, here's the final result: