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ZF IWC MARK XX - A warning against decorated movements

johnchpark

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I ordered a ZF for this watch because I liked the chamfers on the lugs, and also because I thought the decorated movement looked cool - this is where I went wrong.

It took ZF more than 4 months to get me the watch.
The watch arrived with a damaged hairspring, which probably happened during shipping.
I understand it can occasionally happen, and Puretime provided good service to figure this situation out.
(I took it to a local watchsmith to get the hairspring untangled and straightened out, and Puretime agreed to compensate part of the repair fee).



The watch itself LOOKS good. But the functional design is flawed.
1. ZF does not use case mount screws for the movement. The movement sits in a metal case mount, but the mount itself isnt secured to the case. So the only thing holding the movement in place is the crown stem; and theres a bit of wiggle room between the mount and case. I know some watches use this style, but I dont like this design for a couple reasons: the movement can shake slightly around in the case, especially if the case back doesnt actually contact the mount. It also means dial positioning in the case can vary, meaning sometimes the dial may look skewed.


Because the movement isnt mounted to the case, theres only frictional force holding the movement into the case, which also puts more force on the dial. This causes the dial edges to scratch against the case. Technically it’s not visible in the case, but it’s not a good design nonetheless.


2. This watch is LOUD. It's noticeably louder than my other Miyota 9015 watches. So I went in to tighten the rotor screws to see if that would help. AND THE ROTOR SCREWS FELL IN! I was dumbfounded at first, trying to figure out how in the world the rotor is attached without the screws. But then I realized the outer rotor plate is a fake decoration. I removed the decorative plate (which was very lightly glued to the rotor) and below were the real rotor screws. (BTW, tightening the screws didn't quiet the movement so I'll have to go back in with some lubricant if it bothers me enough).


3. Then I wondered if any other decorative pieces were as haphazardly glued on. I went around with Rodico, and soon enough, at least 4 more decorative metal pieces easily came off. I literally touched them with Rodico and they just lifted off. They were mostly metal dots looking like screws.


I realized how terrible this design is. If the "screws" literally came off with the touch of Rodico, then a bump in the watch might also be able to knock them out. And bunch of tiny metal pieces jumping around the case is bound to get caught in the hairspring or gears. This is just asking for troubles sometime down the road.

4. This is a new watch that was only just opened up. But the inner AR coating of the crystal is filled with scratches. There are many tiny scratches in the AR from the inner side of the crystal. Disappointing quality from ZF.



Overall: i waited 4 months for this watch. I have many other ZF watches, but this was a real disappointment. The watch quality itself is bad, with scratches in the AR coating. But not only that, the movement itself is flawed with too many decorative pieces haphazrdly glued on. I even doubt this is a real Japanese Miyota 9015 base to start with. ZF needs to reconsider their quality.

For those wanting an IWC Mark, listen to everyone and go with V7F.


sidenote: One cool thing is, i’ve never seen a rotor system like this before. The rotor screw are BELOW the actual rotor. ZF must have custom designer a suspended rotor bearing system.



Also, for those looking in the future, this is where the ZF Miyota 9015 stem release button is located. Use a tiny needle to push the button.
 

haze3715

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Thanks for your post, this is a great contribution and fascinating to read!

For the fake screws that came off on the Rodico, how were they attached in the first place? Glued on?
 

johnchpark

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Thanks for your post, this is a great contribution and fascinating to read!

For the fake screws that came off on the Rodico, how were they attached in the first place? Glued on?
Thank you.
I assume they were lightly glued on. I literally touched them with Rodico and they lifted out. And when i tried to put them back, they would no longer stick. So some kind of mild superglue im guessing.
 

Horace_Derwent

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@johnchpark : thank you for this very informative, and with good photographs, article!

It terrifies reading something like this, first thinking of all the watches I have with decorative plates 😰

And secondly, ZF really screwed this (at least this particular example) really bad.

I would have thought that models like IWC Mark XX, due to their essential design, were more robust...
I mean, i surely did NOT expect to see fallen decorative pieces from a IWC... Even if rep!
 

Caboose

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As an owner of the ZF Mark XX, I removed that rotor screw decoration piece really quickly to lube the loud rotor. Looks real... for sure isn't! Didn't know about the screws. Might have to dig into that tomorrow! Breaking out the rodico tomorrow morning!
 
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bhehe6813

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Yeah they’re pretty badly decorated. I can confirm everything OP said. All the screws are fake, overall shitty quality, held in by the crown stem.

At least other brands have like a nice solid fake deco plate, with fake but real screws and stuff.
 
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kidcreole

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The ZF VC 4500 has the same fake rotor plate glued on.
 

Caboose

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Update to my attempt to remove all the fake screws this morning with just rodico (and the wood stick of prodding). I tried at least twice on all of them, and none came off. I'm not going to apply more force laterally with tweezers or something because they seem solidly attached. However, as you can see I did remove that horrible deco plate above the rotor screws a while back!

 

johnchpark

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Update to my attempt to remove all the fake screws this morning with just rodico (and the wood stick of prodding). I tried at least twice on all of them, and none came off. I'm not going to apply more force laterally with tweezers or something because they seem solidly attached. However, as you can see I did remove that horrible deco plate above the rotor screws a while back!

hmm maybe i got a poor batch.
I was able to remove 4 just by tapping them with Rodico. The big ones seem like real screws and it's the tiny ones on the automatic works.
Anyways, if they don't fall out, then I guess it's all good
 

Plaasbaas

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On the models I had the adhesive had a gooey consistency. The fake screws came off rather easily when prodded, but never by themselves and I had to really pull them off the gooey stuff.
 

bhehe6813

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That deco plate is probably why the rotor is so loud!
it is, but not how you think. What happens here is the deco plate is too tall, and there’s the fake rotor screw assembly bullshit they got going on, which causes the rotor itself to be so close to the movement that it makes contact with the movement. That’s the sound you’re hearing. It’s slightly skidding along the movement. It’s absolutely terribly designed, worse than aliexpress. I removed the rotor and deco plate nonsense and I wind it now.

They often also have bent hands because they’re the wrong size. ZF is a joke now days, but they’re the only ones making most of the IWC models.

V7F case is not as good as ZF case. It’s close, but the lugs are just a bit weird.

However everything else v7f wise is so much better. The difference in crystals and ar coating is nuts.

For the mark series, just go v7f. Or better yet buy both, swap cases if it’s possible/fits.
 
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centrum

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Thank you for sharing the information with us. Decorated movements are often pretty shitty and add non-functioning, non-sense parts like you mentioned to mimic the look. This is why I went with the Mark 18 by V7 -- I know it's not the same model -- for solid reliability.

But, I have a few modified movements from ZF like the IWC Big Pilot and the IWC 3714 which seem to be working okay. I am surprised that Puretime reimbursed you for some of the repair bill.
 

Everett270

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I just picked up a ZF XVIII Top Gun with the same movement here and it seems like it isn't winding properly. I can wind it by hand just fine but the power reserve it very low after wearing it for a while.

Does anyone know if a standard 9015 can be swapped in?
 

Everett270

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Just as an update to my prior post, the movement is very, very modified. A stock 9015 rotor does not fit onto the existing movement even with the deco plate removed and the date wheel will not fit a stock 9015 without shaving it down. I have cleaned and fiddled with the modified 9015 so that it is winding okay now, but I do think the stock rotor is too light or I have other issues (my movement is not loud at all).

I am waiting for one of two things to happen before attempting to swap a stock 9015 movement in: existing movement failure or boredom. Who knows which will come first, but I do really like the ceramic XVIII from ZF.
 
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KNOCK-KNOCK-KNOCK

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Just as an update to my prior post, the movement is very, very modified. A stock 9015 rotor does not fit onto the existing movement even with the deco plate removed and the date wheel will not fit a stock 9015 without shaving it down. I have cleaned and fiddled with the modified 9015 so that it is winding okay now, but I do think the stock rotor is too light or I have other issues (my movement is not loud at all).

I am waiting for one of two things to happen before attempting to swap a stock 9015 movement in: existing movement failure or boredom. Who knows which will come first, but I do really like the ceramic XVIII from ZF.

That's pretty remarkable that they would modify it so far that a stock rotor would not fit. It just seems like such a waste of effort on everyone's part to decorate this movement at all.
 

Everett270

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That's pretty remarkable that they would modify it so far that a stock rotor would not fit. It just seems like such a waste of effort on everyone's part to decorate this movement at all.
I agree, I was very surprised when the stock rotor wouldn't seat at all. Forgive me for not knowing the proper terms if I make a mistake here, but this is what it appears:

The trainwheel bridge is of a larger diameter on the modified movement and the rotor supplied is not only cantilevered up as noted in the og post, but the weight crimped to the bottom is also thinner. A stock Miyota rotor has a weight that extends too deep towards the center and thus hits the bridge. This also means the stock rotor is a good bit heavier and is why I wanted to swap it out.

On the other side, the calendar wheel is of a larger OD than a stock Miyota and the top plate has a slimmer lip around the edge to accommodate. I didn't take a picture, but I seem to remember that this extra diameter was largely unused, meaning it could be shaved down to fit a stock 9015, but I'm not certain on that.

I wonder if this movement is so heavily modified for a different watch made by ZF and it was just carried over into this one? It really seems that this level of modification is wholly unnecessary for the small market that is IWC, especially ones with a closed caseback.
 

KNOCK-KNOCK-KNOCK

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I wonder if this movement is so heavily modified for a different watch made by ZF and it was just carried over into this one? It really seems that this level of modification is wholly unnecessary for the small market that is IWC, especially ones with a closed caseback.

Now that's an interesting thought! If the movement was borrowed from another open caseback rep with a modified rotor (likely an entirely different brand), then I guess they would feel obligated to add a new rotor into the Mark XX, despite having a closed caseback.