ZF AP 15500

[watcho]

the right one, pun intended.
that's what I meant when I said in an earlier post that some of them look strikingly similar, at least without looking at them through a magnifying glass.

 

[d3s19n]

So which is gen guys?

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First glance left looks gen

 

[wei915]

The right one is the gen. IMHO, the gen white dial has a lot of depth compared to the ZF 15500’s dial.


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[legend]

Legend, I think you should write a post about you gen / rep philosophy (which I totally agree with) and just send people the link to it every time the topic is raised. Or just copy-paste a paragraph or two. So far I'm impressed by your ability to state the same over and over again in different words (no punt).

Lol Hertzen I know I have bee n repetitive and for the brighter ones like you, I am apologetic that you have had to read my "philosophy" like 4 million times.
Thank you for the heads up and I will better moderate myself. :hehehe:

 

[watcho]

The right one is the gen. IMHO, the gen white dial has a lot of depth compared to the ZF 15500’s dial.

Depth, texture and a particular shine, among others but the demarcation line between gen and rep here is kind of "blurred" here. Since the left one is clearly new, one dead giveaway to me is the plastic wrap. APs NEVER come with that wrap when new. It is narrower, green front / blue on back and it does not cover the whole width of the bracelet.
I am assuming that legend's post was as a follow up to some posts above. Wear them for what they are. Both look amazing and have their value to the wearer.

 

[Tobel]

So which is gen guys?

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Gen on the right indeed

 

[watcho]

Take it away, guys. It's past bedtime here in good ole' America (EST at least). Enjoy your morning coffee and the rest of the day!

 

[Erinoush]

So which is gen guys?

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gen is the one on the right (second hand at 38s)

 

[legend]

Depth, texture and a particular shine, among others but the demarcation line between gen and rep here is kind of "blurred" here. Since the left one is clearly new, one dead giveaway to me is the plastic wrap. APs NEVER come with that wrap when new. It is narrower, green front / blue on back and it does not cover the whole width of the bracelet.
I am assuming that legend's post was as a follow up to some posts above. Wear them for what they are. Both look amazing and have their value to the wearer.

Yes indeed, the gen is on the right.

The purpose of my post, is not to show the difference between the gen and the rep for this model, but quite the opposite, I want to show how close they are. Yes of course subtle differences exist, but in real life these are not differences which will matter right? This is a pic on the forum where we have the luxury of scrutinizing. Imagine a real life scenario where both watches are worn at the same table in a restaurant. It is a lot more difficult to discern which is which.

That is the point of the pic. Be happy with the $500 watch and be happy with any color you choose!

 

[watcho]

Yes indeed, the gen is on the right.

The purpose of my post, is not to show the difference between the gen and the rep for this model, but quite the opposite, I want to show how close they are. Yes of course subtle differences exist, but in real life these are not differences which will matter right? This is a pic on the forum where we have the luxury of scrutinizing. Imagine a real life scenario where both watches are worn at the same table in a restaurant. It is a lot more difficult to discern which is which.

That is the point of the pic. Be happy with the $500 watch and be happy with any color you choose!

Exactly my philosophy. They are so close (not only this pair, but so many others too) that one can take some sort of satisfaction in disrupting what I feel it is a disonnance in the quality to price ratio between the gen and the rep, movements aside. No matter how much I respect Patek Philippe as a brand, so far I could never justify paying a horrendous "premium" on MSRP or lining up for years on end to get one. It defies the purpose of measuring time, which should be the core principle of why these watches were originally manufactured, duh?! I'd rather take a Jaeger LeCoultre off the shelf and enjoy a watch which just as much, if not more prestige that the "holy trinity". Not here to antagonize or to start a debate on the legitimacy of this trinity, just trying to prove the point that these beauties are meant to be worn and enjoyed.
Purists might argue that time is a linear function and both above AP iterations measure it quite comparably (and in fact a smartphone does that even more precisely), but this is a different topic for another day, I should say.
The joy of wearing one or the other is equal, or quite comparable, even though the intrinsic value is not. This, among others, should be defining for the backbone of this hobby, despite all negativists' opinions. Those people would most likely call the left one a gen in perfect unison, or if we applied basic probability theory, would ideally call either one 50:50 gen/rep.

 

[watcho]

I should rather say a brand, not "a watch that has just as much, if not more prestige". They are called "The Watchmaker's Watchmaker or "La Grande Maison" for a reason. Again, to each its own.

 

[Erinoush]

Purists might argue that time is a linear function and both above AP iterations measure it quite comparably (and in fact a smartphone does that even more precisely), but this is a different topic for another day, I should say...

for quite obvious reasons, time is not a linear fonction... remember that every 4th years there is an extra 24hrs :hehehe:

 

[Sonofalich]

I should rather say a brand, not "a watch that has just as much, if not more prestige". They are called "The Watchmaker's Watchmaker or "La Grande Maison" for a reason. Again, to each its own.

That's JLC's "tag". - The watchmakers watchmaker.

Since they supplied many of the haute horologists their movements... even invented the first tool in the world (not exclusive to watches) to measure 1 micron, so that they could more accurately create parts and make sure all parts were uniform.

Maybe I missed the point of your post haha Are you talking about JLC or AP? (it's late here, maybe I'm being slow!)

 

[watcho]

That's JLC's "tag". - The watchmakers watchmaker.

Since they supplied many of the haute horologists their movements... even invented the first tool in the world (not exclusive to watches) to measure 1 micron, so that they could more accurately create parts and make sure all parts were uniform.

Maybe I missed the point of your post haha Are you talking about JLC or AP? (it's late here, maybe I'm being slow!)

Hahaaaa, it is late here as well, maybe I was a little confusing, sorry about that! I was correcting my previous post and refering to JLC, of course.

 

[watcho]

for quite obvious reasons, time is not a linear fonction... remember that every 4th years there is an extra 24hrs :hehehe:

Unless your are on the quantum physicists' team, since Sir Isaac Newton, time's linearity for us mere mortals didn't receive much dents as a theory, even when they dropped 10 days off the calender while transitioning from the Julian to the Gregorian calender in 1582. Time continued newtonian linearly, regardless.

 

[watcho]

I am merely talking about our subjective perception of time, obviously. Too late for me (not now, but in general) to get into the Lagrangian-Schema conversation. I would not know where to start at digesting it.

 

[Adaxa123]

gen is the one on the right (second hand at 38s)

I wonder if people recognized the right one as gen, if the left one did not have the plastic around the watch and is brand new. They look pretty much the same to me and on the wrist I cannot imagine that even the biggest experts see the difference.

 

[legend]

I wonder if people recognized the right one as gen, if the left one did not have the plastic around the watch and is brand new. They look pretty much the same to me and on the wrist I cannot imagine that even the biggest experts see the difference.

In real life they do look pretty much the same and will appear to be identical to 99.9% of casual observers.
Are there differences between the gen and rep then? Yes there are certainly but they are largely academic in nature, as opposed to being actual concerns in real life.

I think a lot of guys here are over concerned about colors and details but your observation sums it up for me as well: the rep is good enough to wear in real life without fear of being called out without careful inspection.

If I own the gen and I handle the rep beside it and think it’s an excellent watch, then I think that should sum it up very well for anyone not seeing the world through a 10x loupe right? :hehehe:


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[Sonofalich]

In real life they do look pretty much the same and will appear to be identical to 99.9% of casual observers.
Are there differences between the gen and rep then? Yes there are certainly but they are largely academic in nature, as opposed to being actual concerns in real life.

I think a lot of guys here are over concerned about colors and details but your observation sums it up for me as well: the rep is good enough to wear in real life without fear of being called out without careful inspection.

If I own the gen and I handle the rep beside it and think it’s an excellent watch, then I think that should sum it up very well for anyone not seeing the world through a 10x loupe right? :hehehe:

Absolutely, plus add in aged eyes too!

Reality is only people that complain about these reps are the ones that are posting them on instagram and trying to pretend they're something they're not.
These rep 15500 are just exceptional, the bracelet quality is the bit that gets me! (considering AP attribute over 30% of the retail cost to the Bracelet)

 

[legend]

Absolutely, plus add in aged eyes too!

Reality is only people that complain about these reps are the ones that are posting them on instagram and trying to pretend they're something they're not.
These rep 15500 are just exceptional, the bracelet quality is the bit that gets me! (considering AP attribute over 30% of the retail cost to the Bracelet)

Hey J I know for a FACT that many post their reps and frankens on Instagram. I’ve seen them myself. I do not know if they are members from here but I know for a fact that it’s happening like you said.
The thing about owning reps is that one needs to come to terms very quickly with what they are and what they are not. Many of these reps are definitely “nice watches” without a doubt but none of them are actual luxury brand watches and therein lines the disparity: you have on your wrist a watch which resembles an X brand model and clearly carries the brand logo but isn’t really one. You therefore have a definite percentage of guys passing them off as gen and others wearing them as replicas and enjoying them as they are, and the people in between. It is something not discussed here openly and I don’t see the need to start doing so now. You see guys asking questions like which color is closest to gen and they get defensive or evasive when asked why.

No matter what color you choose, the watch is 100% rep and that is totally ok. It’s a hobby many enjoy in their own capacity and for their own reason. Nobody will care about the watch more than the owner does and the owner already knows 100% what his watch is about so there is no reason for anyone to worry about being called out when wearing a rep. If the anxiety is persistent, it’s where the gens come in. Just go out and buy one and end the worry forever.


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