Youtube and ‘experts’

[Andrew_watchlist]

So been watching a lot of you tube vids on how to spot a fake, one memorable one was trumpeting easy tell is the gap where bracelet and lugs are joined. Continues on, Rolex would never have that gap. Then I see this on a well known pawnbrokers stock list.
I can see daylight, so how the heck can anyone make any decision when faced with contradictions like this? I

 

[derjenigewelcher]

So been watching a lot of you tube vids on how to spot a fake, one memorable one was trumpeting easy tell is the gap where bracelet and lugs are joined. Continues on, Rolex would never have that gap. Then I see this on a well known pawnbrokers stock list.
I can see daylight, so how the heck can anyone make any decision when faced with contradictions like this? I

Rolex arent perfect watches. I got a gen and rehaut isnt aligned. There are also some with not perfect SELs and so on, or aftermarket bracelet is also possible.

 

[MaximillianGT]

So been watching a lot of you tube vids on how to spot a fake, one memorable one was trumpeting easy tell is the gap where bracelet and lugs are joined. Continues on, Rolex would never have that gap. Then I see this on a well known pawnbrokers stock list.
I can see daylight, so how the heck can anyone make any decision when faced with contradictions like this? I

The gap (or gapless) between SELs and lugs is one of the criteria, not the only criteria. Apart from this (which is NOT always accurate), there are still many things you can look into.

And don't trust everything you see on YouTube. From what I've seen, a lot of those guys are simply bluffing. Some of those "identifying flaws" can also happen to gens too.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

I have learnt a bit more thank you guys, the vids were a mix of the established channels which I feel are trusted and the new guys trying to build a channel . I Will pop into an AD tomorrow and look at a couple of sports watches with a view to look at those tolerances.

 

[asusundevils1971]

I Will pop into an AD tomorrow and look at a couple of sports watches with a view to look at those tolerances.

Don't forget to bring your feeler gauges, jeweller's loupe, micrometer and a digital caliper to get a good grasp of a Rolex and how tight or lenient their tolerances are.

The AD should have a booklet there that has everything about the specifications and tolerances on all the models Rolex sells. It's actually quite a good read and very surprising to see what passes quality control at the factory.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Don't forget to bring your feeler gauges, jeweller's loupe, micrometer and a digital caliper to get a good grasp of a Rolex and how tight or lenient their tolerances are.

The AD should have a booklet there that has everything about the specifications and tolerances on all the models Rolex sells. It's actually quite a good read and very surprising to see what passes quality control at the factory.

I can tell you from a personal friend of mine, that is Rolex AD, a fun story (which he proved to me by photograph:

When the lefty GMT was released, the first one he got from Rolex for selling, had a normal Datewheel built in - so the date was not only on the left side, it was also upside down. Just in terms of Rolex QC

The watch immediatly had to be sent back to factory. What a shame for them.

 

[Rx4Time]

Don't forget to bring your feeler gauges, jeweller's loupe, micrometer and a digital caliper to get a good grasp of a Rolex and how tight or lenient their tolerances are.

The AD should have a booklet there that has everything about the specifications and tolerances on all the models Rolex sells. It's actually quite a good read and very surprising to see what passes quality control at the factory.

...you forgot the reddit alignment tool....

 

[asusundevils1971]

...you forgot the reddit alignment tool....

Do you really think that tool needs to be used for checking fine Swiss timepieces that are made in Geneva. Will have to ask my next guest right after a commercial break.
Insert commercials

Like to welcome my first guest via satellite from the wine country in southern California who is on a mission to save the watch industry from the insanity. Please give a big warm welcome to @TESLA760 who is the founder and president against all things stupid.

The watch industry pressured me (gave me free watches) to ask this question first.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

I think we are wandering off topic lol. The issue I raised was about what really indicates gen v rep to noobs like me. Gaps ain’t it. The sub I am looking at is below retail 16610 2012. I am tempted at that price, but when it looks no different in the images to my rep, well I am slightly nervous. I suppose the one clue is the italic m is in the right place.

 

[0ffcamber]

I can tell you from a personal friend of mine, that is Rolex AD, a fun story (which he proved to me by photograph:

When the lefty GMT was released, the first one he got from Rolex for selling, had a normal Datewheel built in - so the date was not only on the left side, it was also upside down. Just in terms of Rolex QC

The watch immediatly had to be sent back to factory. What a shame for them.

Sounds like a collectors item to me!!!

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Sounds like a collectors item to me!!!

Thats what the buyer also thoughts. But he was not allowed to sell this piece anyway.
By the way, anyone can swap Datewheels and tells you "it happens when Rolex swapped it"

 

[asusundevils1971]

I think we are wandering off topic lol. The issue I raised was about what really indicates gen v rep to noobs like me. I am tempted at that price, but when it looks no different in the images to my rep, well I am slightly nervous. I suppose the one clue is the italic m is in the right place.

You can piece a Sub together with gen parts from different watches but it will still be classified as a genstein because it's not made in the Rolex factory (this has been discussed on here already). So the only sure fire way to find out if that watch came from the factory that way is to take it into a RSC and have them look at it.

Me personally wouldn't buy a Rolex or any other top Swiss company from a pawn shop as they wouldn't be able to tell if everything on the watch came that way from the factory and also they are just looking to make a few dollars off unsuspecting over eager buyers.

The rep Subs that are being made by the two top factories right now are scary good and look like the gen in pictures but what's on the inside is a totally different story. You can take a gen watch made last year and compare to this years batch and you will see differences in them (some might say flaws).

So don't take the pics you have seen and say the M is in the right place because that has changed over the years (also discussed on here), a .0001 mm space between the lugs doesn't look right (bracelet and case could have been polished and brushed making the gap look bigger).

If you are that nervous then don't buy it and keep on looking it's that easy. @Andrew_watchlist are you happy this thread is back on track lol.

 

[Rx4Time]

I think we are wandering off topic lol. The issue I raised was about what really indicates gen v rep to noobs like me. Gaps ain’t it. The sub I am looking at is below retail 16610 2012. I am tempted at that price, but when it looks no different in the images to my rep, well I am slightly nervous. I suppose the one clue is the italic m is in the right place.

I will try to approach your concerns one by one. Obviously the gaps in the end links are not an issue. There is minimal if any difference between. A. Top-level replica like a VSF submariner differences between that and the genuine are minuscule. Take the eBay listing below. This was discussed in the scams section. This is a VSF submariner that's someone exchanged out the balance for a genuine balance and listed it as genuine. The movement is a vs movement and the balance and bridge.

Rolex Submariner Men's Black Watch - 114060 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rolex Submariner Men's Black Watch - 114060 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

The only way it would be worthwhile to even consider this is if you could take it directly over to your Rolex AD and have them authenticate it. Remember the submariner replicas from the tap manufacturers like clean and VSF are close to indistinguishable visibly. You really need to know every single tell. If you could post a link to the listing you can get some opinions

 

[EuroTime25]

I just met a guy with a Breitling and for the 30 seconds we talked I had exactly 3 seconds to see his watch on his wrist about 4 feet away and identify all the close up details. So I failed, and saw it was impossible to tell unless its a $60-100 fake with obvious tells. Even then unless I was Niko and all I did was sell gens and my job was to identify real vs fake. I sold Cartier Sunglasses and Chrome Hearts and trust me never did I examine anything under a loope. For someone that sells watches I bet you all they care is to size you up if they can sell you another. Plus someone here had a photo of Patek Tiffany and the date was way off the center, something that everyone would decline the QC photos from a TD. Yet there you go for a watch that sells for $2 million usd.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

I will try to approach your concerns one by one. Obviously the gaps in the end links are not an issue. There is minimal if any difference between. A. Top-level replica like a VSF submariner differences between that and the genuine are minuscule. Take the eBay listing below. This was discussed in the scams section. This is a VSF submariner that's someone exchanged out the balance for a genuine balance and listed it as genuine. The movement is a vs movement and the balance and bridge.

Rolex Submariner Men's Black Watch - 114060 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rolex Submariner Men's Black Watch - 114060 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

The only way it would be worthwhile to even consider this is if you could take it directly over to your Rolex AD and have them authenticate it. Remember the submariner replicas from the tap manufacturers like clean and VSF are close to indistinguishable visibly. You really need to know every single tell. If you could post a link to the listing you can get some opinions

Thankyou for taking the time to write that. I appreciate it. I do have a 30 day return, it's a uk national chain so should not be an issue, and yes first port of call if I do get it will be the AD nearest me. I have the latest vsf subdate and really like the understated look of the black on steel.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

Link to watch, I looked at a few and it wasn’t the pawn broker that was under retail it was a jewelers. Although the pawnshop had one at retail.

Link to watch

Rolex Submariner 116610 LN 40mm Stainless Steel Watch

The Rolex Submariner is an intricate timepiece which was launched by Rolex back in 1953, being a perfect addition to any watch collection. This pre-owned example is finished with a black dial inside a 40mm stainless steel case, which is fitted on an 18cm stainless steel bracelet. The watch is...

handt.co.uk

 

[Rx4Time]

Link to watch, I looked at a few and it wasn’t the pawn broker that was under retail it was a jewelers. Although the pawnshop had one at retail.

Link to watch

Rolex Submariner 116610 LN 40mm Stainless Steel Watch

The Rolex Submariner is an intricate timepiece which was launched by Rolex back in 1953, being a perfect addition to any watch collection. This pre-owned example is finished with a black dial inside a 40mm stainless steel case, which is fitted on an 18cm stainless steel bracelet. The watch is...

handt.co.uk

I'm confused. Are you looking at a specific watch? If so, we need the exact watch you're looking at. To my understanding, this link is not the watch that you're looking at but one similar?

 

[tripdog]

The issue I raised was about what really indicates gen v rep to noobs like me.

Nothing - that's the very definition of a noob, little to no knowledge.

I am tempted at that price, but when it looks no different in the images to my rep, well I am slightly nervous.

Buy the cheaper one if you can't see the difference.

The watch you linked has been poorly brushed and polished, all the edges are soft and rounded, especially the bottom left lug which looks a mess. It also doesn't box or papers and the seller probably doesn't know the last time the movement was serviced.

 

[Andrew_watchlist]

Nothing - that's the very definition of a noob, little to no knowledge.



Buy the cheaper one if you can't see the difference.

The watch you linked has been poorly brushed and polished, all the edges are soft and rounded, especially the bottom left lug which looks a mess. It also doesn't box or papers and the seller probably doesn't know the last time the movement was serviced.

Thanks, I did think it looked weird, and wondered if it had polished like you say. I’ll leave it and stick to in person viewings I think, a little bit of knowledge added.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Buy the cheaper one if you can't see the difference.

Defintive the best advice and mostly underestimated!

After training myself to be eagle-eyed on specific models, its a curse to my bank account that I cannot oversee some specific flaws.
I sometimes think back to the days where my AETA Noob Submariner v6 or something like that was NWBIG and NOT EVEN WATCHMAKERS CAN TELL!