Who's got the best sub?

[pugwash]

It's a comedy quaestion that we always ask. The response is always either a show of mirth or a demand to search the dealers.

Still, it's not a very good response. Are we that lazy that we can't even answer something like the following?

"It depends on your wallet, but you can spend an awful lot of money on an MBW and gen parts tarting it up ... or you can get a decent one from TTK for around a hunnerd-n-sum bucks, if you don't mind cheap insides."

Are we that insecure about upsetting dealers in the middle ground, or fearing the ridicule of our peers that we can't have a stock answer prepared?

I used TTK in the example of the cheapo Sub because that's where I got mine. I know other dealers stock it and that the dealers don't all have their own private factories, but I'll always know it as the TTK Sub. It's up to the other dealers to convince me that I should call it something else, unless I can come up with something more generic myself.

This leads me to answer my "Who's got the best Sub" by redefining the question. I'd say "Who's got the best Sub ... for a newbie to the whole Rep community" and I'd answer "Ah, you're looking for the Nubmariner. I got mine from TTK, and if you shop around, he was at one point offloading them for an amazing paypallable $99, but I paid $120 for mine and have had nothing but joy with it."

Damn, this has been a meandering post. I've got a reputation to uphold here, so I'll post a pic of my Nubmariner.

 

[pugwash]

"Ah, you're looking for the Noobmariner"

I'm happy to entertain alternate spellings, such as Nubmariner or similar ...

 

[Tink131]

I'm voting for Noobmariner, or Newbmariner :wink:

 

[DrmMaster]

SubN0obiner? :lol:

 

[Tink131]

hey, now that's catchy. 8)

 

[Roeod4]

My reply is typically the same each time. "Who has the best sub?"........Rolex. :twisted:

Now, "Who has the best REPLICA sub?" is a different story all together. There is no simple answer. Why not? It seams like a simple enough question, doesn't it? Who has the best of the product that I am looking for? The main problem with the question as a whole is that it is completely objective. The "best" depends entirely on the individual. What I consider best and what you consider best may be completely different and for different reasons. You might as well ask 10 people who makes the best car. What are the criteria? Gas mileage/kilometerage, safety features, luxury features, performance, dependability, price, etc. What are you judging the best on? What makes you think one is better than the other?

At the same time, which sub are you talking about? Do you want modern, vintage, LV, the bond sub, stainless, two tone, all gold, blue dial, black dial, serti dial, Asian movement, Swiss movement, do you want to mod it, do you want it off the shelf so to speak, etc. There are too many variables to answer the question off hand. It is hard enough for some people to grasp the concept of Swiss replicas not existing. What they are all made in Asia?!?!?!

For many, the devil is in the details. Flaws can kill a great watch and learning the flaws can kill your love for a watch. When you walk in the door and you don't know the difference every sub looks great. Cg's, date font, bezel insert, pearl, dial font, etc. We all look at one thing in the beginning, that we have learned, that makes a Rolex look fake. When we find the sub that doesn't have that flaw, we think we have the Holy Grail of all reps. It takes time and understanding before we realize all the little flaws about the watch we like and then they ruin the watch. Not because they were never there before and not because anybody else will notice them, but because it is on your wrist and YOU notice them. Nobody else may ever see your watch pimple, but you will and it will drive you out of your mind.

In the end it boils down to what a person is willing to accept and what they are not willing to accept. There are variations in ever sub that Rolex has sold. Looking for two identical subs is like trying to find twin snowflakes. If you can accept the fact that the sub you buy is going to be pretty damn close to the factory version and that with some mods it may turn into your ultimate treasure, then you can buy from just about everyone. If you just want a watch that will look good and allow you to impress your friends and coworkers, you can buy from just about everyone. The point is, everyone needs to understand what is going on with the watch they want, so they are as happy as they can be with it. If you are happy with your sub, then IT is the best sub.

 

[pugwash]

There is no simple answer.

I disagree. A simple $108 Sub is the 'best' Sub to point a newbie at. If it's not for them, they can work the rest out themselves.

The problem is that a noob turns up and their first reply is "you're so thick, we're so clever, na na na, we're going to act even cleverer and make you jump through hoops before you're allowed in our special super secret club, and we're so up our own arses we're going to act like it's funny you're so stupid."

It doesn't make us look very welcoming.

 

[pugwash]

Do you want modern, vintage, LV, the bond sub, stainless, two tone, all gold, blue dial, black dial, serti dial, Asian movement, Swiss movement, do you want to mod it, do you want it off the shelf so to speak, etc.

See, this is where a n00b simply cannot know what they're looking for yet.

This is why I reckon we point them at the starter Sub and let them know it's merely a starter.

... which leads me to another question. Best leave that for later, though.

 

[Roeod4]

My problem with the "simple answer" is that I took that route and ended up kicking myself.

I purchased my first LV sub off of Ioffer. I had not found any of the forums yet and I went for, what I considered at the time, the middle of the road in price and quality. What I ended up with was an LV sub with Asian movement (was told it was swiss) that had holes in the lugs, cgs thick enough to knock over a desk lamp every time I moved my arm, oversized font from hell on the dial, open 6's and 9's in the date font and the absolute worst bezel insert in the history of the world. I was horribly unhappy with the watch and people could tell it was fake from a mile away. I payed $250 for that POS.

Now, I understand that none of our dealers are going to sell anything that bad, but anyone who is looking for a watch should be shown that there are options. Let them know that each of the dealers offer different watches and that each watch has different flaws. Some of the flaws are noticeable and some are not, but overall they can't go wrong and they will be happy with what they get.

It is not secret handshake crap, it is knowledge. Once you have the knowledge you can better understand what you are looking at and for. The old way of doing things was to tell someone to search and they would be able to find it. Those days are gone, the forums have lost a lot of the archived information that they once had, due to petty fighting and selfish behavior. Now a person who wants to know something has to ask and giving them the information that they want may or may not be an easy thing to do. It will all depend on the individual. Some people may not except the noobmariner as the watch for them. Some of the drive thru style members will thank you and run on their way. Everyone has different standards and it is up to the individual to meet their own standards with their watch purchase.

Damn, I'm long winded today.

 

[Tink131]

maybe we should just post this whole thread in a section just for newbies and let them decide- you both have very good points......
maybe another issue is that no one wants to take responsibility for the newbie not liking his newbmariner....?
But at least this thread would give him something to go on and wouldn't think we are snobs...just an idea :idea:

 

[Roeod4]

maybe we should just post this whole thread in a section just for newbies and let them decide- you both have very good points......

Very good idea Tink. I think this may move to Flame-free as a sticky.

maybe another issue is that no one wants to take responsibility for the newbie not liking his newbmariner....?

Too true, that is one of my problems.

 

[pugwash]

My problem with the "simple answer" is that I took that route and ended up kicking myself.

Whereas I'm wearing my TTK sub today. It was the first watch I bought as an intro to reps and intended it to be a beater. Neil told me I would be impressed and that it's not a PoS beater.

I'm not expecting the .cn movement to last for ever, but at 100€ or so, I cannot recomment it highly enough as a starter.

...and yes, I see your points.

 

[Tink131]

You guys are both looking out for the newbie from different angles because of different experiences- and that's a good thing! 8)
Cool!

 

[pugwash]

You guys are both looking out for the newbie from different angles because of different experiences- and that's a good thing! 8)
Cool!

See, this is where you need open, flame-free debate as it's one of those quandries that shows both Roe and I as opposing, yet correct, views.

I'll name this phenomenon SchRoeod4inger's Sub. How's that.

 

[Roeod4]

You guys are both looking out for the newbie from different angles because of different experiences- and that's a good thing! 8)
Cool!

See, this is where you need open, flame-free debate as it's one of those quandries that shows both Roe and I as opposing, yet correct, views.

I'll name this phenomenon SchRoeod4inger's Sub. How's that.

Sounds good.....I think....wait....how do you pronounce that?!?!?!?

 

[DrmMaster]

1 sided (hypothetical) conversation here....simply ask the n0ob what he has to spend....then you will be able to point to the right direction....

 

[Roeod4]

1 sided (hypothetical) conversation here....simply ask the n0ob what he has to spend....then you will be able to point to the right direction....

Also an excellent point.

So the questions become:
1. How much do you have to spend?
2. How perfect does it need to be?


Any others?

 

[Roeod4]

So the questions become:
1. How much do you have to spend?
2. How perfect does it need to be?
3. What color do you want?
4. Why aren't you getting a Panerai? :wink:

 

[pugwash]

Why is US$100-€100 a good plateau?

Because it's the lowest price you can get a decent Sub for. Anything lower is frankly rubbish and anything higher is ... well, it's higher.

 

[Roeod4]

Enzo is actually going back to my original point. However, I think Pugwash has a valid point too.

The first thing that should be ascertained is how far they are willing to go for their "best" sub. If they have determined that they want the best they can get with mods and everything, then you point them in that direction. If they just want a nice looking watch that has the Rolex logo, then you point them in another direction.

Each answer WILL be different depending on the individual and their wants/needs and their abilities. If they can not afford to spend more than $100 then they have Pugwash's answer right in front of them. If they are more concerned with accuracy and getting the "Jeweler Fooler" then they need to find the sub they want and start looking for someone to mod that sub to perfection.

WHTBS? Still turns into a matter of opinion and debate. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and therfore can never be put into a plain package for anyone.