What's up with watchmakers and reps?

[jad648]

I just purchased my first reps recently and haven't had a need to use the services of a watchmaker yet, but I've read plenty of posts in this forum where members state that most watchmakers are reluctant or flat out refuse to work on reps.

What's up with that? It makes no sense to me. I can understand an authorized dealer not wanting to touch a rep, but why would any independent watchmaker not want to work on a rep? It generates revenue and new business, right? It is not illegal so why the reluctance?

I'd like to hear other members' experience when trying to get their reps serviced or repaired. It'd be interesting to see how others are getting it done. Are there any watchmakers in the forum that repair reps in the different countries? Maybe a list of trusted watchmakers who work on reps should be next here.

 

[levelmanroger]

Many watchsmiths are reluctant to work on reps because:
They don't know the quality and feel they are cheap junk.
They have no confidence as to the quality/repairability of a rep.
They have no knowledge of the availability of parts.
They are bacally afraid that they will spend time exploring a cheap piece of junk not worth the cost of repair, and that you will end up just leaving a worthless pile of parts with them instead of paying the service charges.

Find a good local watchsmith. Ask him to just look at the watch and promise to pay a check-out fee before he even looks at it. Make sure you let him know you will not hold him responsible for anything he can't fix or even anything that breaks as a result of him looking at it (remember - he thinks it's a cheap flimsy piece of crap).

 

[Fiddo]

Many watchsmiths are reluctant to work on reps because:
They don't know the quality and feel they are cheap junk.
They have no confidence as to the quality/repairability of a rep.
They have no knowledge of the availability of parts.
They are bacally afraid that they will spend time exploring a cheap piece of junk not worth the cost of repair, and that you will end up just leaving a worthless pile of parts with them instead of paying the service charges.

Find a good local watchsmith. Ask him to just look at the watch and promise to pay a check-out fee before he even looks at it. Make sure you let him know you will not hold him responsible for anything he can't fix or even anything that breaks as a result of him looking at it (remember - he thinks it's a cheap flimsy piece of crap).

+1

Yep

 

[747]

+2

Most only have experience with cheap "fakes."
I have actually just recently found a watchmaker (fully qualified not a guy in a kiosk). When i took my Breitling in, he thought i just wanted a battery. When he pulled it apart he was suprised to see a full A7750 movement. Upon closer inspection he could see the finish etc wasn't as smooth as a gen - but he said it was very good.

 

[rarebear]

There are many more moral people in the world than us..

I chat a lot on woodworking forums I am am shocked at how far in left field my views on wanting a manager in a store to sell me an item for the price it is marked at.. They feel its a mistake and I should not ask for the item even if I say I over paid for several items at the same store..

 

[Beowoulf_1]

Many watchsmiths are reluctant to work on reps because:
They don't know the quality and feel they are cheap junk.
They have no confidence as to the quality/repairability of a rep.
They have no knowledge of the availability of parts.
They are bacally afraid that they will spend time exploring a cheap piece of junk not worth the cost of repair, and that you will end up just leaving a worthless pile of parts with them instead of paying the service charges.

Find a good local watchsmith. Ask him to just look at the watch and promise to pay a check-out fee before he even looks at it. Make sure you let him know you will not hold him responsible for anything he can't fix or even anything that breaks as a result of him looking at it (remember - he thinks it's a cheap flimsy piece of crap).

Nice post.

You just have to look around and talk to a few before you find one that is comofrtable with reps. Take one with you so he sees it is not a piece of junk.

 

[budo]

Are there any watchmakers in the forum that repair reps in the different countries? Maybe a list of trusted watchmakers who work on reps should be next here.

A place where the members doing different watch services, can advertice, would be a great help when you're new on the forum.

It would make it easy to find someone to fix AR, lume, other mods and generel movement service, in your local region.

Maybe this allready exist somewhere in this great ocean of usefull information, called RWI, I just haven't found it yet

 

[andreww]

I think that the reluctance has more to do with the lack of availability of parts than anything else. My watchsmith has had one of my A7750s apart, so he knows what they are like. His comments were that the parts are not of great quality, and very brittle. As there is no source for replacement parts, it is a risky move for him to get involved. He said that he is nervous just pulling the hands off because they might come apart. I'm not saying that any of this is true, but that is the perception. Ziggy has done well for himself servicing these things, but that comes with years of learning about the the special problems and weaknesses associated with these movements. I can understand why someone without that kind of knowledge base would want to steer clear of them. What I don't understand is why watchsmiths will refuse to do simple work like a dial swap, or a datewheel swap however.

 

[Francisco]

I begun to repair reps some years ago... after one year I decide to stop. It was very frustrating. If you are used to repair/service gens...the difference is huge.

One example. When hands are removed.... some reps (Daytona, IWC portuguese...) have hands of a very poor quality and it is very easy to damage them.

Later, I begun again to repair/service reps... I realized then that you need better skills to work with reps, more knowledge. Now I have less problems working with reps...because NOW I KNOW BETTER THE PRODUCT, A DIFFERENT PRODUCT.

Therefore, I have realized that I had problems at the begining, some years ago, because I was not good enough to cope with this product. Now, after figthing many times agains reps, after many frustrations, I know what I can do and what I cannot do, or I should not do to avoid problems.

That is the point...a "regular" watchmaker, with no experience with reps...is completely lost.... they are "different"...

Francisco

 

[jad648]

Great feedback on this issue. There is obviously a need for people who want their reps serviced and repaired and there seems to be a great deal of difficulty getting the services from traditional watchsmiths. I would venture to say that most of us are not comfortable attempting to perform the service or repairs ourselves, so maybe there are enough skilled watchsmiths in this forum willing to offer their services or enough colleagues in the forum willing to share the name and contact info of qualified watchsmiths willing to work on reps.

Don't know if that falls within the authorized criteria for the forum, but maybe we can get an opinion from one of the senior moderators. Just an idea, but one that would help members and generate good business and revenue to trusted watchsmiths.

 

[d4m.test]

Great feedback on this issue. There is obviously a need for people who want their reps serviced and repaired and there seems to be a great deal of difficulty getting the services from traditional watchsmiths. I would venture to say that most of us are not comfortable attempting to perform the service or repairs ourselves, so maybe there are enough skilled watchsmiths in this forum willing to offer their services or enough colleagues in the forum willing to share the name and contact info of qualified watchsmiths willing to work on reps.

Don't know if that falls within the authorized criteria for the forum, but maybe we can get an opinion from one of the senior moderators. Just an idea, but one that would help members and generate good business and revenue to trusted watchsmiths.

Speak of the devil and he shall appear!

As you were mentioning this, I was with my watch guy today. We spoke at great length about what you were just speaking of. This man is an expert on all things watches, and I trust him with my reps.

I have been saying this for a long time now, but most Mom & Pop places will not hesitate to work on your reps...especially in today's economy. Especially if you are honest with them and educate them on this our hobby.

I have my guy just about talked into a couple of things. I cannot speak for him per se, but I will say that maybe soon we may have one more in our ranks offering services...and again, this man's services are exceptional!

 

[jmd33]

I think that the reluctance has more to do with the lack of availability of parts than anything else. My watchsmith has had one of my A7750s apart, so he knows what they are like. His comments were that the parts are not of great quality, and very brittle. As there is no source for replacement parts, it is a risky move for him to get involved. He said that he is nervous just pulling the hands off because they might come apart. I'm not saying that any of this is true, but that is the perception. Ziggy has done well for himself servicing these things, but that comes with years of learning about the the special problems and weaknesses associated with these movements. I can understand why someone without that kind of knowledge base would want to steer clear of them. What I don't understand is why watchsmiths will refuse to do simple work like a dial swap, or a datewheel swap however.

+1

That's exactly how my guy feels. He said he would replace a rep movement, but not work on one. He feels the metal is lower quality and he is afraid of having a problem.

 

[jad648]

(deleted - duplicate of post below)

 

[levelmanroger]

My watch smith is an old Chinese guy, and he's a true artist. He'll work on anything for me, and I've even helped him with parts and information. But it took some time to build the trust.
He just rebuilt another old Wakmann Incabloc Triple Date for me and had to MAKE some replacement parts. Yes I said MAKE. There's nothing he can't do.
A good watch smith is truly invaluable.

 

[jad648]

Maybe we should invite more watchsmiths to join this forum...and convert them! When it comes to getting replacement parts, aren't some of the most experienced members of this forum getting some spare parts for their reps?

JMD33, you wrote that your watchsmith does not work on reps. Has he inspected some of your watches or is he assuming they're poor quality components from other fakes he may have seen?

By the way, are the movements used in reps also used in other watches? I'm not thinking expensive watches, but in less expensive brands.

 

[levelmanroger]

By the way, are the movements used in reps also used in other watches? I'm not thinking expensive watches, but in less expensive brands.

Many reps run ETA movements which are also used in gens. And not always cheap gens.
For example, the rep Breitling SOSF runs the EXACT same ETA movement as the gen Breitling SOSF. My watch smith always confirms which of mine are running real ETAs, and he is constantly in amazement at how good many of the clone movements are (but NOT the A7750!).
Find a small independant watch smith and try to educate them by letting them look at the watch and the movement. Assure them that YOU will be responsible for locating parts or replacement movements if they have any problems. It's just a matter of building their familiarity.

 

[jad648]

Changing the subject a bit, which movements are preferable to the A7750? I'm pretty new at this hobby, but it seems like most reps now offer the A7750 as the most expensive and best option, but your post makes me think there are much better options out there, so why is it that they're not widely available?

 

[mbjoer]

When/if your local search fails, (as was the case for me) there are a few trusted watchmakers here. Depending where you live you will stand a pretty good chance of finding one by using the search function here.
Personally I am in the EU and have used Domenico several times with very satisfactory results. Francisco (see above) is also held in high regard here.
Within the EU there are no customs and practically no issues with the mail.
So great guys and easy peacy!!

 

[jad648]

Do you think there are enough watchmakers or watchsmiths, as some refer to them, in the forum to create a trusted watchsmiths list? In the US, sending a watch off to any location within the US would not be a problem with customs, so a couple of trusted US based watchsmiths would probably keep themselves busy. I assume the same applies to EU based watchsmiths when it comes to customs.

Let's see if we get some feedback from qualified watchsmiths and moderators. Actually, the watchsmiths would not necessarily need to be present forum members. If a member knows a qualified watchsmith willing to work on reps, he/she can find out if the person is willing to become a forum recommended watchsmith and introduce them to the forum members. They can always join the forum later.

 

[levelmanroger]

Do you think there are enough watchmakers or watchsmiths, as some refer to them, in the forum to create a trusted watchsmiths list? In the US, sending a watch off to any location within the US would not be a problem with customs, so a couple of trusted US based watchsmiths would probably keep themselves busy. I assume the same applies to EU based watchsmiths when it comes to customs.

Let's see if we get some feedback from qualified watchsmiths and moderators. Actually, the watchsmiths would not necessarily need to be present forum members. If a member knows a qualified watchsmith willing to work on reps, he/she can find out if the person is willing to become a forum recommended watchsmith and introduce them to the forum members. They can always join the forum later.

I have a great watchsmith here in the Dallas area. The only thing he doesn't do yet is source rep parts and movements, but I'll probably have him doing that himself soon.

As for the A7750 movement, there is no alternative in a rep. This movement is in virtually all reps that are automatic and have working chronos. Any other movement will not have this combination. The gen ETA Valjoux 7750 is quite expensive and hard to get.