What is important in a movement? Good replication or serviceability? Why?

[nettmann]

I see a lot of reps with closed backs that have special movements to look like the gen. Or at least they are decorated in some way to mimic the look of the gen movement.

I have to admit that I don't understand, why this is done?. Because as I understand it, a rep movement will not convince someone who knows the gen movement. So who should be fooled with a "gen looking" movement? Personally, I would prefer (for a 3 hand watch) an off-the-shelf movement that can be serviced easily and has inexpensive parts or replacements. I'd rather have an A2824 in a DJ than a VS3235 because it would mean less problems when there is a defect. (Heck, if there were a high beat mechaquartz I would consider it ) Unfortunately, the good looking reps mostly also have the clone-movements.

Am I missing something here? What is your opinion about this? Do you prefer a gen-looking movement over a service-friendly one? And why?

Cheers
Nettmann

 

[mclarendude]

You will find that a lot of people in the replica market are NOT in it for serviceability/reliability. They are only in the market to fulfill some type of egotistical desire. They want to portray themselves as something they are not and having a high-end replica that is as close to gen as possible, at least visually, is a good tool to achieve their egotistical desire. They can take off the watch and show it to someone who knows nothing about watches and get away with lying to them. I'd like to say that most of RWI members are NOT in that section of the market and that most of us are genuine watch geeks who venture to replicas as a genuine passion for watches.

I'll be the first one to say that if and when possible, I take all the decoplates off any watch I own. Specially those who do not have a display back. It has been shown that replica makers will make these movements less efficient with their decoplates and rotors, making the rotors weigh less than necessary to achieve proper winding outputs.

But, they are made because there is a market for them. You're not missing anything.

EDIT: Actual CLONE movements (like VS3135, 3235, 4130, etc) are a whole different subject.

 

[EarlOfBacon]

When I started buying reps in the early 90's there was allmost everything with ETA - clones, 2824, 2836, 7750 etc.
Run like champs, easy to fix.
I miss that time ...

 

[Reaps]

- Frankening prospects
- Easier to replace with gen parts (hands and stuff fit without any modification of gen parts), use of gen datewheels without overlay, etc
- Some replicas, correct stem height, crown height, pinion height, etc

For 4130 - correct thinness, stable chronograph movement that is functional and can be run often without fear, etc

Of course, my favorite beater replica runs a 2824, there are still replicas that run SW-200/300 movements or ETA2892 clones, such as RXWH Glashutte, Original Factory Tags, IWC replicas, Breitling replicas, there are loads of them around, even we can still find great /decent Rolex replicas with 2824 movements, but you know, the majority prefer the clone movement and all the added benefits that it brings

Despite all this stuff about reliability, I think, this prospect is overblown, the majority of Rolex clone movements have proven themselves to be extremely solid - the VR3135, VR3235, VS3135, VS3235, DD4130, they've been around the block, if you own the original Noob 4130 - then they've been ticking for 5 years, the VS3135 - released in 2020 - so 4 years with this movement, even DD3285 - relatively new, has had very little/few complaints

Furthermore, ok, let's say it breaks - you can drop in a VS3135 or a VR3235 found on Aliexpress for around $100-150, cheaper than the cost of a service and even a brand new ETA2824... so what's the harm? A hassle, but not the end of the world

 

[nettmann]

You will find that a lot of people in the replica market are NOT in it for serviceability/reliability. They are only in the market to fulfill some type of egotistical desire. They want to portray themselves as something they are not and having a high-end replica that is as close to gen as possible, at least visually, is a good tool to achieve their egotistical desire. They can take off the watch and show it to someone who knows nothing about watches and get away with lying to them. I'd like to say that most of RWI members are NOT in that section of the market and that most of us are genuine watch geeks who venture to replicas as a genuine passion for watches.

I was not aware but it makes sense: The rep market like the gen market is not for the watch enthusiasts.

- Frankening prospects
- Easier to replace with gen parts (hands and stuff fit without any modification of gen parts), use of gen datewheels without overlay, etc
- Some replicas, correct stem height, crown height, pinion height, etc

Despite all this stuff about reliability, I think, this prospect is overblown, the majority of Rolex clone movements have proven themselves to be extremely solid - the VR3135, VR3235, VS3135, VS3235, DD4130, they've been around the block, if you own the original Noob 4130 - then they've been ticking for 5 years, the VS3135 - released in 2020 - so 4 years with this movement, even DD3285 - relatively new, has had very little/few complaints

Furthermore, ok, let's say it breaks - you can drop in a VS3135 or a VR3235 found on Aliexpress for around $100-150, cheaper than the cost of a service and even a brand new ETA2824... so what's the harm? A hassle, but not the end of the world

OK, I can understand that.

 

[mclarendude]

The rep market like the gen market is not for the watch enthusiasts.

It only is if you find communities like RWI.

 

[MaximillianGT]

I see a lot of reps with closed backs that have special movements to look like the gen. Or at least they are decorated in some way to mimic the look of the gen movement.

I have to admit that I don't understand, why this is done?. Because as I understand it, a rep movement will not convince someone who knows the gen movement. So who should be fooled with a "gen looking" movement? Personally, I would prefer (for a 3 hand watch) an off-the-shelf movement that can be serviced easily and has inexpensive parts or replacements. I'd rather have an A2824 in a DJ than a VS3235 because it would mean less problems when there is a defect. (Heck, if there were a high beat mechaquartz I would consider it ) Unfortunately, the good looking reps mostly also have the clone-movements.

Am I missing something here? What is your opinion about this? Do you prefer a gen-looking movement over a service-friendly one? And why?

Cheers
Nettmann

You seem to have some sort of bias that buying a clone movement is with the intention of "fooling someone", this is not at case, at least not for me. I throw in a dozen gen parts into my 4130 not because I want to fool someone. In fact, if I want to show off, I just simply wear my gens. The reason behind is firstly I really love the 4130, secondly, I'd love to know how it goes if I change the key parts, like balance, wheel train etc and let them work with the rep parts, how accurately can it go compared with a gen movement.

 

[Kerbus]

I just bought my first two reps with clone movements recently. A 4130 and a DD3285. Im going to have to see how reliable they are for myself. I do like the idea of replacing ETA movements. I had to do that once so far several years ago. It’s less of a hassle than a service.

 

[MaximillianGT]

I just bought my first two reps with clone movements recently. A 4130 and a DD3285. Im going to have to see how reliable they are for myself. I do like the idea of replacing ETA movements. I had to do that once so far several years ago. It’s less of a hassle than a service.

I love the idea of 2824 or NH35 inside a sub, but then it seems out of fashion now and difficult to find a good-quality one. I am planning to build myself one by getting those case sets which can fit a 2824 or NH35, but it is a long shot for me to find time to sit at the bench for a few hours a day...

 

[Kerbus]

I’m currently on the hunt for my last rep for a while. This time I really want a 2842/2836/other reliable movement I hope what I have in mind is still in production.

 

[Giammy]

- Frankening prospects
- Easier to replace with gen parts (hands and stuff fit without any modification of gen parts), use of gen datewheels without overlay, etc
- Some replicas, correct stem height, crown height, pinion height, etc

For 4130 - correct thinness, stable chronograph movement that is functional and can be run often without fear, etc

Of course, my favorite beater replica runs a 2824, there are still replicas that run SW-200/300 movements or ETA2892 clones, such as RXWH Glashutte, Original Factory Tags, IWC replicas, Breitling replicas, there are loads of them around, even we can still find great /decent Rolex replicas with 2824 movements, but you know, the majority prefer the clone movement and all the added benefits that it brings

Despite all this stuff about reliability, I think, this prospect is overblown, the majority of Rolex clone movements have proven themselves to be extremely solid - the VR3135, VR3235, VS3135, VS3235, DD4130, they've been around the block, if you own the original Noob 4130 - then they've been ticking for 5 years, the VS3135 - released in 2020 - so 4 years with this movement, even DD3285 - relatively new, has had very little/few complaints

Furthermore, ok, let's say it breaks - you can drop in a VS3135 or a VR3235 found on Aliexpress for around $100-150, cheaper than the cost of a service and even a brand new ETA2824... so what's the harm? A hassle, but not the end of the world

I think it’s much better to service an issued movement than to buy a new one, even if price is lower.
I’ve bought some new clone movements and it seems to be always overlubricated, with ash, dirty and even fingerprint on movement’s parts! A disaster

 

[EarlOfBacon]

My experience with clone is that's really hard to find someone who's willing to work for you on this because of that what you wrote.
With 2834 / 2836 it's so much easier ...

 

[Karbon74]

28xx and NH3x are perfect for vintage builds.

Heck, I even want to make a quartz 5513 and have already put a couple of hours of research in it

 

[MaximillianGT]

28xx and NH3x are perfect for vintage builds.

Heck, I even want to make a quartz 5513 and have already put a couple of hours of research in it

Doable?

 

[MaximillianGT]

My experience with clone is that's really hard to find someone who's willing to work for you on this because of that what you wrote.
With 2834 / 2836 it's so much easier ...

2 of our members in Italy are really popular in working with clone movements.

 

[Karbon74]

Doable?

2824-2 and 2836-2. The stems heights are 1.8mm vs. 2.25mm.

ISA 1198 non date stem height is 1.75 so that is on par with the 2824-2 at 1.8mm

ISA 1198 with date stem height is 2.2mm compatible to the 2836-2.

So the reason why I have not done it yet is that JKF is 2836, so the quartz will have a ghost date
Raffles is 2824, but the case is meh…

So maybe on a Raffles 1016 build

 

[MaximillianGT]

so the quartz will have a ghost date

Is it the same way to fix this as fixing a VS3235 in VSF nodate sub by changing the setting lever?

 

[Karbon74]

Is it the same way to fix this as fixing a VS3235 in VSF nodate sub by changing the setting lever?

Theoretically yes…but i have no clue where to find such a part

 

[Jackster]

Theoretically yes…but i have no clue where to find such a part

Dogwood makes them i believe?

 

[Jackster]

I see a lot of reps with closed backs that have special movements to look like the gen. Or at least they are decorated in some way to mimic the look of the gen movement.

I have to admit that I don't understand, why this is done?. Because as I understand it, a rep movement will not convince someone who knows the gen movement. So who should be fooled with a "gen looking" movement? Personally, I would prefer (for a 3 hand watch) an off-the-shelf movement that can be serviced easily and has inexpensive parts or replacements. I'd rather have an A2824 in a DJ than a VS3235 because it would mean less problems when there is a defect. (Heck, if there were a high beat mechaquartz I would consider it ) Unfortunately, the good looking reps mostly also have the clone-movements.

Am I missing something here? What is your opinion about this? Do you prefer a gen-looking movement over a service-friendly one? And why?

Cheers
Nettmann

I think this is a great question and one I have pondered on myself. Back in the day when there were no super clone movements and gen eta's were not available any more the challenge was to have a rep movement that was as reliable as possible so for me I only considered the Asian eta clones, they satisfied my desire for a high beat, reliable automatic movement that could be serviced or replaced fairly easily.

But for me one of the goals of the rep game is to achieve a watch that is as close to gen as possible, not to fool anyone but well, just because! That for me is the challenge, so when the SuperClone Rolex movements arrived I was super excited... imagine having a virtually identical movement to gen in your watch and with a Gen Balance thrown in you have a $1000 watch that is arguably as good as a $20000 watch, that to me is incredible!

I am fortuante enough to own a Gen Rolex so I don't need to or aspire to impress other people, I own it because I am seriously into the history, design and mechanics of a Rolex Submariner.

But a lot of the time I wear my VSF Sub, I don't have to worry about it but it scratches that 'I want a Rolex on my arm' itch.

It wouldn't bother me if its a A2824 in there or a VS 3235 but given the choice i'd take the VS, I suppose this is the general train of thought otherwise why would the factories strive to make them... it's just progress.

So again thanks for the question and for allowing me to express my thoughts on the subject.