What do you think? (7753 Issue)

[ALE7575]

@ALE7575 this has been asked many many times. I have torn down both the Swiss and Asian 7753. I have the final answer on this:

The infamous wobble on the subdial at 3 is inherent to the structure of the A7753 movement. The A7753 is a A7750 with a Chinese recreation of the tricompax module that moves the minute counter from 12 to 3 with a series of 3 wheels.

The Difference (why does it happen and can it be fixed?):
The Swiss 7753 has gears that mesh very tightly and a jewel holding the pinion in place. The Asian gears don't mesh as tightly and the pivot is held by a hole in the top plate with no jewel.

Swiss parts May be interchangeable. But I highly doubt it. Therefore the A7753 owner needs to just accept it and move on. Unless they want to invest in a $600 Swiss 7753.

You may occasionally get lucky and get a watch with a wheel tightly held in the pivot, but sooner or later you will likely see this issue on all A7753 movements

Thanks Grim
Perfect !

I should close the thread after such a post

Really a master reply

ALE

 

[Knifemaker]

Thanks Grim! This is the kind of detailed info that keeps me coming back to RWI! ;-)

Knife

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Hola
Este caso No es un problema de control de calidad, se trata de un problema inherente a los movimientos replica de A7753: la mayoría tiene esa aguja con un pequeño movimiento indeseado.
De todas formas, efectivamente estamos expuestos a "la suerte" cuando se trata de replicas. Por fortuna, en casi todos los casos, tenemos buenas soluciones.
NO dejes el lado oscuro... es más divertido
Buena suerte
ALE

Buenos días, pensaba preguntarte por qué era un problema inherente a ese movimiento, pero Grimlocktime ya me ha dado la respuesta. Pensaba que os referíais a un error de diseño en el 775X, como los problemas y roturas que ocasionan los cambios de fecha en "horas problemáticas", por lo que comentaba Immo sobre que eso le pasaba a algunos Panerai originales. Teniendo cuatro 7753, uno de ellos COSC, y otros siete 7750, dos de ellos COSC, esa explicación se me antojaba fuera de lugar, ya que jamás había oído nada referente a esto. No obstante, la explicación de Grimlocktime me da, en parte, la razón. Si las piezas tuviesen la calidad suficiente -imagino que será un problema de tolerancias- y su ensamblaje fuera el debido, aguantarían al menos un tiempo.

Probaré suerte y se lo llevaré a mi relojero para ver si puede cambiar/adaptar ese módulo conflictivo con fornituras de calidad. Si no, buscaré algún reloj averiado y probaré a arreglarlo y sustituir el mecanismo.

@ALE7575 this has been asked many many times. I have torn down both the Swiss and Asian 7753. I have the final answer on this:

The infamous wobble on the subdial at 3 is inherent to the structure of the A7753 movement. The A7753 is a A7750 with a Chinese recreation of the tricompax module that moves the minute counter from 12 to 3 with a series of 3 wheels.

The Difference (why does it happen and can it be fixed?):
The Swiss 7753 has gears that mesh very tightly and a jewel holding the pinion in place. The Asian gears don't mesh as tightly and the pivot is held by a hole in the top plate with no jewel.

Swiss parts May be interchangeable. But I highly doubt it. Therefore the A7753 owner needs to just accept it and move on. Unless they want to invest in a $600 Swiss 7753.

You may occasionally get lucky and get a watch with a wheel tightly held in the pivot, but sooner or later you will likely see this issue on all A7753 movements

Thak you very much for the answer, it is the style i like.

Occasionally get lucky and get a watch with a wheel tightly held... Occasionally get lucky and factory does its job well. QC

this is a windmill you appear to be jousting. These are Asian movements. If you want to fix the problem, upgrade to a Swiss.

All Asian movements have the same problems? Require a minimum quality Asian products is not quixotic. Proof of this are Xiaomi, Lenovo, Oppo... Or Seagull, speaking of watches.

Thank you very much everyone for the answers.

 

[mysterio]

All Asian movements have the same problems? Require a minimum quality Asian products is not quixotic. Proof of this are Xiaomi, Lenovo, Oppo... Or Seagull, speaking of watches.

Thank you very much everyone for the answers.

Not all Asian movements have the same problems everytime. The A7750 or the A6497 for example, they are for the most part, very reliable movements.

Requiring illegally made Asian (well any region for that matter) products to meet a perceived quality level is quixotic. Xiaomi, Lenovo, Oppo and even Seagull are legally made so we're talking a whole different game.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Not all Asian movements have the same problems everytime. The A7750 or the A6497 for example, they are for the most part, very reliable movements.

It was a rhetorical question, mate.

Requiring illegally made Asian (well any region for that matter) products to meet a perceived quality level is quixotic. Xiaomi, Lenovo, Oppo and even Seagull are legally made so we're talking a whole different game.

But, if you put yourself two magnificent examples, A6497 and A7750, so quixotic nothing...

 

[mysterio]

It was a rhetorical question, mate.

It may be rhetorical, for you. But not expecting an answer does not mean that it cannot be answered. Plus unanswered questions like that plant doubt in the minds of those people who are wondering about the reliability or lack thereof of Asian movements. I am just making it clear that Asian movements, however incapable of being compared to Swiss movements, are generally reliable, especially given proper servicing. But there are still elements of the movement like how it was assembled or the lack of precise mechanical tolerances or the lack of quality control that from time to time, cause infant mortality or a wobbly hand @ 3.

But, if you put yourself two magnificent examples, A6497 and A7750, so quixotic nothing...

They are magnificent examples of reliable movements that have been used in lots of PAM reps. However they weren't as reliable in the beginning, maybe around 5 years ago. But they improved, however, there is no indication what caused the improvement in quality. So to dream of a movement assembled by underpaid Chinese workers working under God knows what conditions, under constant threat of being arrested by the Chinese authorities for illegal activities, expecting it to meet a minimum level of quality, that is quixotic (and for those who aren't familiar with the term, idealistic or impractical).

 

[zocker4711]

Grimmlock is Absolutley right... It's an matter of Time and the A7753 F... Up
I have done an Rebuild for an Customers Tudor Black Shield... The A7753 was horror...
My Customer had many luck that he had found an cheap ETA7753 at the bay...
We had think coolio all we must do is an Straight Swap... But this was only an thinking...
Because the DateWheel of the A7753 and ETA7753 are not Compatible... The end of the Story was that I have shape down the complete A7753 DateWheel to an thickness of an DWO and glue this as DWO at the ETA7753...
This was an real F.... Up work...

So and don't spend your $$$ into an Service! It doesn't worth the Money...
Only if the Movement is an ETA7753

 

[AmoryBlaine]

It may be rhetorical, for you. But not expecting an answer does not mean that it cannot be answered. Plus unanswered questions like that plant doubt in the minds of those people who are wondering about the reliability or lack thereof of Asian movements.

That's what i meant by my rhetorical question, why it not makes much sense answer so . If other movements, made under the same precarious and illegal conditions, working properly, the problem is quality control in addition to mismatching the original desing.

I am just making it clear that Asian movements, however incapable of being compared to Swiss movements, are generally reliable, especially given proper servicing. But there are still elements of the movement like how it was assembled or the lack of precise mechanical tolerances or the lack of quality control that from time to time, cause infant mortality or a wobbly hand @ 3.

That's what I said from the outset, but it seems that I have not expressed properly since from the beginning I have replicated that is not a problem of quality control. Althoug his own words desprendise otherwise.

They are magnificent examples of reliable movements that have been used in lots of PAM reps. However they weren't as reliable in the beginning, maybe around 5 years ago. But they improved, however, there is no indication what caused the improvement in quality. So to dream of a movement assembled by underpaid Chinese workers working under God knows what conditions, under constant threat of being arrested by the Chinese authorities for illegal activities, expecting it to meet a minimum level of quality, that is quixotic (and for those who aren't familiar with the term, idealistic or impractical).

As I said before, the same conditions that made the 7750, for example. Quality, as we see, must not only be in pieces, but also in its assembly. Hopefully they will improve to reach the quality of the 7750, 2836 or 6497. If they did before with them, I don't think to ask them to do the same with the 7753 is quixotic.

Grimmlock is Absolutley right... It's an matter of Time and the A7753 F... Up
I have done an Rebuild for an Customers Tudor Black Shield... The A7753 was horror...
My Customer had many luck that he had found an cheap ETA7753 at the bay...
We had think coolio all we must do is an Straight Swap... But this was only an thinking...
Because the DateWheel of the A7753 and ETA7753 are not Compatible... The end of the Story was that I have shape down the complete A7753 DateWheel to an thickness of an DWO and glue this as DWO at the ETA7753...
This was an real F.... Up work...

So and don't spend your $$$ into an Service! It doesn't worth the Money...
Only if the Movement is an ETA7753

Thank you very much for your experience, has been very enlightening!!

 

[d4m.test]

Grimmlock is Absolutley right... It's an matter of Time and the A7753 F... Up
I have done an Rebuild for an Customers Tudor Black Shield... The A7753 was horror...
My Customer had many luck that he had found an cheap ETA7753 at the bay...
We had think coolio all we must do is an Straight Swap... But this was only an thinking...
Because the DateWheel of the A7753 and ETA7753 are not Compatible... The end of the Story was that I have shape down the complete A7753 DateWheel to an thickness of an DWO and glue this as DWO at the ETA7753...
This was an real F.... Up work...

So and don't spend your $$$ into an Service! It doesn't worth the Money...
Only if the Movement is an ETA7753

the tricompax on the a7753 is a unique and very ingenious approach to the Swiss but certainly not 1:1. It will always have some quirks.

But just FYI Zocker, the new version of the A7753 that Noob started using around 2013 on the daylight Chrongraphs (PAM356, PAM196, etc...) is more nicely made and does accept an ETA datewheel. Good news!!!

 

[zocker4711]

Ahhh good to know Grimlock
The Movement where i had the probs was with an Tudor... So when the new a7753 are nearly exactley then it´s nice

the tricompax on the a7753 is a unique and very ingenious approach to the Swiss but certainly not 1:1. It will always have some quirks.

But just FYI Zocker, the new version of the A7753 that Noob started using around 2013 on the daylight Chrongraphs (PAM356, PAM196, etc...) is more nicely made and does accept an ETA datewheel. Good news!!!