watchmaker9 "new preorder sub cases" perfect match

[By-Tor]

Ahh... that one. I have already forgotten about him... he was a troll and easily forgettable.

 

[pineypl]

A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

How difficult would it be to actually 3-D scan a gen case and then manufacture one in Stainless?

Obviously it seems tough, but would there not be someone with access to such tool and die and perhaps be able to make these mythical 1:1 cases? Or would it be simply a matter of price for materials and time on the equipment? Or pehaps an actual violation of a physical copyright on the case size and shape?

I am serious here and am not trying to ignite a flame war. I ask, as I have access to CADD software and such, however I do not have access to the tool and die process.... :-(

I am off to church in a few then to my son's school orientation, so I won't be back to read responses for a few hours. BTW, I am going with the Gen Fortis Flieger for this today, prolly put the DSN 063 on later today.

 

[Jake48]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

Good morning all!

For the record I think this is a good thread and I appreciate the thoughts people have put into it.

Seeing that I like to keep things simple, I look at WM9 this way - He could be a scammer - he might not be a scammer. He could provide what is arguably the best sub case made - he might not provide the best sub case made

This is were I simplify things FOR ME...

If (and yes I know it is a big IF) he makes the sub case as pictured and described, FOR ME, it is worth the money. I am not talking about the other watches he sells and yes - for the life of me - I am not sure why people pay the prices they do -BUT THEY DO- and that is not a scammer.

I have spent in excess of $1,000.00 questing to build the real "perfect sub" more than once. To date I have 1 - yes that's right 1 and it's not really "perfect" - d@mn close, but not perfect.

The case WM9 claims he will make will give the platform to really build a close to "perfect" sub. I think the price is worth it.

Will the price go down? Probably - somewhat...

What I factor in is how long would you wait and with the "cartel" in play, movements drying up - how low will the price really go (assuming it is offered by other dealers)?

There are way to many "What ifs" in that scenario for me and the potential for a very long wait.

Remember, a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush.

To summarize, it is real simple:

WM9 will either make the watch as he has promised or he won't. If he does I will buy one and I think it is worth the price.

If he doesn't make the watch or the watch is not as promised - Scammer or overconfident watchmaker? I guess that will depend on the fact if people loose money...

The only thing anyone can say for sure is that we ALL have to wait and see.

Like I have posted before - if YOU (not a friend of a friend or some inane statement like "everyone knows that...") have been scammed by WM9 - let's hear about it and tell us why.

Heck, I would want to know. If you are just repeating gossip and have no real experience with WM9, well, your just repeating gossip and have no real experience and I would HIGHLY recommend that the reader take that into consideration. "Facts" usually end up befitting you better than innuendo, conjecture and speculation.

Repeating gossip is far from a "FACT".

 

[pugwash]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

I am not sure why people pay the prices they do -BUT THEY DO- and that is not a scammer.

So what's the difference between Bluefakes and Watchfelcher9?

They both use shills, overcharge and make outrageous claims about their watches. They're both scammers in my book. If it quacks like a duck ...

 

[hk45ca]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

How difficult would it be to actually 3-D scan a gen case and then manufacture one in Stainless?

Obviously it seems tough, but would there not be someone with access to such tool and die and perhaps be able to make these mythical 1:1 cases? Or would it be simply a matter of price for materials and time on the equipment? Or pehaps an actual violation of a physical copyright on the case size and shape?

I am serious here and am not trying to ignite a flame war. I ask, as I have access to CADD software and such, however I do not have access to the tool and die process.... :-(

I am off to church in a few then to my son's school orientation, so I won't be back to read responses for a few hours. BTW, I am going with the Gen Fortis Flieger for this today, prolly put the DSN 063 on later today.

well, i will say this about that, i build these for a living,


running a cad program to reproduce a gen sub is absolute child's play and can be done in a matter of minutes. finding a movement that fits and will let you have correct crown location is another story and you can't have a 1 to 1 copy until you can do that. is there a movement that will work?

 

[Jake48]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

I am not sure why people pay the prices they do -BUT THEY DO- and that is not a scammer.

So what's the difference between Bluefakes and Watchfelcher9?

They both use shills, overcharge and make outrageous claims about their watches. They're both scammers in my book. If it quacks like a duck ...

Pug, I really am trying to look at this objectively and your history of subjectively manipulating the "facts" never cease to entertain me. In one sentence you use words like "shill" and "outrageous claims" and attempt to link them to WM9.

Can you provide proof(?) or are you just going to repeat your favorite line "everyone knows that..."

Would it be possible for me to politely ask you to refrain from making statements with no real experience as if you have known "facts".

We get it - you THINK WM9 is a scammer.

The truth is you have never offered up any proof...

 

[pineypl]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

finding a movement that fits and will let you have correct crown location is another story and you can't have a 1 to 1 copy until you can do that. is there a movement that will work?

Well then, that is just it. Is there any movement that is of the same dimensions to align the crown position properly in the case? I wish I had an answer. Part of my reasoning in asking these questions was that we "know" the rep manufacturers will not make a 1:1 case for whatever reason. If they will not do it, could we then do it?

As usual I am late to the party on such things and am probably [smilie=banghead.gif]

 

[pugwash]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

Pug, I really am trying to look at this objectively and your history of subjectively manipulating the "facts" never cease to entertain me. In one sentence you use words like "shill" and "outrageous claims" and attempt to link them to WM9.

Can you provide proof(?) or are you just going to repeat your favorite line "everyone knows that..."

Would it be possible for me to politely ask you to refrain from making statements with no real experience as if you have known "facts".

Shill: Daunjuan (and others)
Outrageous Claims: This is their spec for a Swiss Noobmariner

Grading: Grade 1, (AAA)

(Original retail price is $4,850 US dollar.)

Additional Comments: This is the finest quality reproduction you can find on the market. Other Swiss replica dealers are offering this great timepiece at $850 US dollar. Buy this great watch directly from WATCHMAKER9, the expert of Swiss ETA mechanical watches, at manufacturer's cost those dealers purchase from us: $529.99 US dollar, safely with much less money.

Over to you.

 

[pugwash]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

We get it - you THINK WM9 is a scammer.

The truth is you have never offered up any proof...

Are we using different definitions of the word Scammer here? Let's see, what's your definition of a scammer and how does it differ from what WM9 is doing?

 

[Jake48]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

We get it - you THINK WM9 is a scammer.

The truth is you have never offered up any proof...

Are we using different definitions of the word Scammer here? Let's see, what's your definition of a scammer and how does it differ from what WM9 is doing?

Pug your starting to post to yourself.
This concerns me.
I really hoped this would be a thread about the potential for a new sub case that is as close to 1:1 as we have seen. I am not sure why you feel the need to jump on threads and prove people wrong by throwing around your crazy "conspiracy" theories with out any proof.

I really am bored with your shenanigans and truthfully at my age I am over the 3rd grade game of "gotcha" that you seem to enjoy.

Again, can I respectfully ask you to go some where else if you can't post with facts?

You need help.

I do not want to bore this thread with your need to debate the definition of "scammer"

Like I said before - people on this board are intelligent enough to figure it out themselves.

Post some facts - if you have them. Please try and refrain from your usual tactic of making unfounded allegations and derailing the thread with a meaningless argument so that you can showcase your perceived intelligence.

You have been warned by the admin here before. Have you gone mad? Why do persist with this useless banter. If you want to argue about the definition of "scammer" PM me.

 

[pugwash]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

You have been warned by the admin here before. Have you gone mad? Why do persist with this useless banter. If you want to argue about the definition of "scammer" PM me.

I've been banned before. That's not the point. :wink:

This is a FORUM. We're here to discuss, educate and admire. Your telling me to shut up isn't going to do it, I'm afraid. I'm expressing the same opinion of many forum members but you choose not to shout them down.

I've remained on topic on this thread until this post. We're discussing WM9 and their Subs, right? I personally believe WM9 are scammers as they sell MBW or Noobmariners for significantly higher than our dealers, just like Bluefakes, Replicahaus and the rest of the scammers we warn against. The difference is they appear to have advance pictures of what could be a new Sub.

So, what do we do? We warn and advise our fellow members not to part with their hard-earned cash in the hope that WM9 suddenly change their ways and sell something worth what they're charging.

Here's my prediction: We'll see some amazing Subs on ioffer and members will discuss them and within two days, we'll get word from Eddie Lee or Angus that there are new Subs on the way. They'll go on sale and the world will explode and then, finally, the WM9 pre-orders will come through and the brave, brave few will get their $500 Subs a week after we've got our new $380 Subs.

Caveat Emptor is the point of my posting in this thread. You can disagree with that all you like.

 

[MICAVI]

I've got to agree with Pug on this one. What WM9 is doing is what these forums were supposed to stop. All this talk of A+, AAA, Swiss Grade 1, etc. That is bullshit. Then to say that the same sub is sold elsewhere for over $800 dollars is bullshit too. Where is it sold for $800? On the scam sites? Yes. So WM9 is saying they sell to scammers knowingly. What's his face PT was looking to sell or produce a Porsche Watch for close to a grand, which was supposedly to justify them having to buy the watch to make a 1:1 copy, okay that's a possibility, I'm not saying anything bad about PT. But if the price jump from other 1:1 replicas was due to the cost of the genuine then how does WM9 explain the huge price tag? It shouldn't be much more expensive than any other replica since the gen would have only cost them around 5,000. WM9 is looking to make a ridiculous profit and that in combination with his marketing practices pretty much puts him at "entry level scammer" in my book. Meaning, you may actually get something, just as you would from SuperDuperSwissRep.com or what have you, but what you get is not worth anywhere near what you paid nor what was advertised. That is a scammer.

 

[Jake48]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

The difference is they appear to have advance pictures of what could be a new Sub.

So, what do we do? We warn and advise our fellow members not to part with their hard-earned cash in the hope that WM9 suddenly change their ways and sell something worth what they're charging.

Here's my prediction: We'll see some amazing Subs on ioffer and members will discuss them and within two days, we'll get word from Eddie Lee or Angus that there are new Subs on the way. They'll go on sale and the world will explode and then, finally, the WM9 pre-orders will come through and the brave, brave few will get their $500 Subs a week after we've got our new $380 Subs.

Caveat Emptor is the point of my posting in this thread. You can disagree with that all you like.

Reasonable statements that didn't need the chicken little argument that "the sky is falling.'

With all your "scammer" this and that arguments the point remains that we will have to wait and see.

My take on the "WM9 is a scammer because he charges ridicules prices" is that people didn't wail "scammer" when some of our very own dealers were charging $500.00 + for "perfect subs."

I certainly wouldn't pay that much and that is what is beautiful about a free market - you don't have to.

What amazes me is that again, it is really simple - some people think WM9 is a scammer, some do not.

I like to go with verifiable facts. You seem to like to go with subjective facts. That is our main difference.

I will wait and see about all the "predictions". At the end of the day, right now, they are just that - predictions.

No one knows what will happen with the WM9 sub. I would prefer to wait before we tie WM9 to the stake and burn him.

You have him on the stake and are trying to light the match.

 

[MICAVI]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

Reasonable statements that didn't need the chicken little argument that "the sky is falling.'

With all your "scammer" this and that arguments the point remains that we will have to wait and see.

My take on the "WM9 is a scammer because he charges ridicules prices" is that people didn't wail "scammer" when some of our very own dealers were charging $500.00 + for "perfect subs."

I certainly wouldn't pay that much and that is what is beautiful about a free market - you don't have to.

What amazes me is that again, it is really simple - some people think WM9 is a scammer, some do not.

I like to go with verifiable facts. You seem to like to go with subjective facts. That is our main difference.

I will wait and see about all the "predictions". At the end of the day, right now, they are just that - predictions.

No one knows what will happen with the WM9 sub. I would prefer to wait before we tie WM9 to the stake and burn him.

You have him on the stake and are trying to light the match.

So it would be okay for me to put up a $200 Sub on eBay or something similar and charge $900 for it? Describing it as 1:1 and how it's A+ Swiss Grade 1, etc. Looks exactly like the real deal, etc. Certainly someone would buy it, not knowing any better. But who cares if I overcharged them by almost 500%, it's a free market and they didn't have to buy it, no one forced them.

When you compare this to the "Ultimate Versions" offered by some dealers, you're comparing apples to oranges. I don't like Andrew or Josh's business practices either, but what they were offering were subs that had to be modified after the watch had already been made. That is an added expense. RBJ and the like were offering the same services and if you compared the price increase over a stock sub, you'd save money buying it already modded.

 

[Jake48]

I've got to agree with Pug on this one. What WM9 is doing is what these forums were supposed to stop. All this talk of A+, AAA, Swiss Grade 1, etc. That is bullshit. Then to say that the same sub is sold elsewhere for over $800 dollars is bullshit too. Where is it sold for $800? On the scam sites? Yes. So WM9 is saying they sell to scammers knowingly. What's his face PT was looking to sell or produce a Porsche Watch for close to a grand, which was supposedly to justify them having to buy the watch to make a 1:1 copy, okay that's a possibility, I'm not saying anything bad about PT. But if the price jump from other 1:1 replicas was due to the cost of the genuine then how does WM9 explain the huge price tag? It shouldn't be much more expensive than any other replica since the gen would have only cost them around 5,000. WM9 is looking to make a ridiculous profit and that in combination with his marketing practices pretty much puts him at "entry level scammer" in my book. Meaning, you may actually get something, just as you would from SuperDuperSwissRep.com or what have you, but what you get is not worth anywhere near what you paid nor what was advertised. That is a scammer.

Micavi,

I see your points, but let me ask you this. Have you ever emailed WM9 or had any dealings with him?
I have and I can only tell you about my experiences. I too read his web site, years ago, and thought "Seems like a lot of Bullsh!t there. I pass." Now as far as I am concerned if he sends what he advertises to his customers (not movement swaps, Chinese for Swiss as an example or cheap canal street reps in place of what he advertises) and they willingly pay it - good for him. Doesn't make him a scammer in my book. And as far as I have read NOBODY that has bought a watch from him has complained. The loudest complainers are people who have NEVER dealt with him or emailed him.

Back to my experience...

When I saw WM9's claim that he was going to make a 1:1 sub I was interested. For $499.00 I think a sub like that would be worth it. I emailed him a bunch of questions and he clearly understood what I expected. He answered my questions professionally and made me guarantees.

When (if) I get the watch, if it is not as he agreed to, I can send it back for a full refund.

COULD he be scamming me? - sure! But I am willing to take this chance. Like I said before, if you have personal knowledge of WM9 ripping you off - let me know. I have been asking this for quite a few months now and the best argument brought forward is "WM9 overcharges for his watches".

Sorry, to me, that is not a scammer.

 

[pugwash]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

No one knows what will happen with the WM9 sub. I would prefer to wait before we tie WM9 to the stake and burn him.

You have him on the stake and are trying to light the match.

I would prefer that nobody pre-ordered a Sub for $500 because they weren't told WM9 overcharges.

If WM9 proves me wrong and becomes the exclusive 1:1 Sub dealer, then no matter what I say, he'll sell every one he makes.

 

[Jake48]

Re: A stupid question of a noob about 1:1 cases

No one knows what will happen with the WM9 sub. I would prefer to wait before we tie WM9 to the stake and burn him.

You have him on the stake and are trying to light the match.

I would prefer that nobody pre-ordered a Sub for $500 because they weren't told WM9 overcharges.

If WM9 proves me wrong and becomes the exclusive 1:1 Sub dealer, then no matter what I say, he'll sell every one he makes.

I think I agree with you on this one Pug - but I can't really tell for sure. Are you trying to say that it would be likely that nobody would pre-ordered a Sub for $500 if they knew WM9 overcharges?

or just that it would be your preference that nobody pre-order a WM9 sub because he overcharges?

Either way, it is something to consider.

I also agree that If (and truthfully I know it is a big IF) WM9 makes that watch as he says it is, he will definitely sell every one of them. I also feel regardless of who sells it, it will be worth the $500.00.

I don't remember WM9 saying he had exclusive rights. I think he was just the first person to post pictures of his alleged 1:1 copy.

 

[MICAVI]

I've got to agree with Pug on this one. What WM9 is doing is what these forums were supposed to stop. All this talk of A+, AAA, Swiss Grade 1, etc. That is bullshit. Then to say that the same sub is sold elsewhere for over $800 dollars is bullshit too. Where is it sold for $800? On the scam sites? Yes. So WM9 is saying they sell to scammers knowingly. What's his face PT was looking to sell or produce a Porsche Watch for close to a grand, which was supposedly to justify them having to buy the watch to make a 1:1 copy, okay that's a possibility, I'm not saying anything bad about PT. But if the price jump from other 1:1 replicas was due to the cost of the genuine then how does WM9 explain the huge price tag? It shouldn't be much more expensive than any other replica since the gen would have only cost them around 5,000. WM9 is looking to make a ridiculous profit and that in combination with his marketing practices pretty much puts him at "entry level scammer" in my book. Meaning, you may actually get something, just as you would from SuperDuperSwissRep.com or what have you, but what you get is not worth anywhere near what you paid nor what was advertised. That is a scammer.

Micavi,

I see your points, but let me ask you this. Have you ever emailed WM9 or had any dealings with him?
I have and I can only tell you about my experiences. I too read his web site, years ago, and thought "Seems like a lot of Bullsh!t there. I pass." Now as far as I am concerned if he sends what he advertises to his customers (not movement swaps, Chinese for Swiss as an example or cheap canal street reps in place of what he advertises) and they willingly pay it - good for him. Doesn't make him a scammer in my book. And as far as I have read NOBODY that has bought a watch from him has complained. The loudest complainers are people who have NEVER dealt with him or emailed him.

Back to my experience...

When I saw WM9's claim that he was going to make a 1:1 sub I was interested. For $499.00 I think a sub like that would be worth it. I emailed him a bunch of questions and he clearly understood what I expected. He answered my questions professionally and made me guarantees.

When (if) I get the watch, if it is not as he agreed to, I can send it back for a full refund.

COULD he be scamming me? - sure! But I am willing to take this chance. Like I said before, if you have personal knowledge of WM9 ripping you off - let me know. I have been asking this for quite a few months now and the best argument brought forward is "WM9 overcharges for his watches".

Sorry, to me, that is not a scammer.

So then for the sake of argument, what would your definition of scammer be?

I haven't ordered anything from WM9 because I know I wont get what is advertised. Have you sent back a watch and received a full refund? I could care less about guarantees, I can guarantee you anything you want, but that doesn't mean I'll honor that guarantee. Are you gonna file a complaint with the BBB if he doesn't follow through with his guarantees? The reason you haven't heard anyone complain is because very few people have bought from WM9 and everyone probably received something so just figure that it could've been worse. If I ordered, I wouldn't recieve a 1:1 replica because they don't exist. From the pictures you can see that it's decent, but not 1:1. Moreover, it's not produced in Europe nor is it Swiss Grade 1 A+++.



Full 12 month warranty - Your satisfaction is absolutely guaranteed! The quality and craftsmanship is always top quality, and we guarantee the value of all our watches. Every watch sold undergoes a 48 hour quality control test to fulfill the Swiss watch making standard of accuracy, C.O.S.C.

WARRANTY POLICY

Manufacturers' defects are covered under warranty. This does not include intentional damage, or general wear and tear (such as scratches, dents/chips, etc.). Make sure the crown is always screwed in tight so water does not get in. If any water damage is detected to have gotten in from the crown not being tight, water damage is not covered.

If your watch cannot be repaired, we will send you a replacement of the exact same model. If that model is out of stock, then you can choose another product of the same value. In virtually all cases of manufacturers' defects, the products can be repaired.

Intentional crown/stem damages are not covered. In most cases, crown/stem damages results from the customer pulling extremely hard at the stem, thus jamming the movement. However, if the crown/stem damage is due to a manufacturers' defect, we will gladly repair/replace your watch.

Please allow up to 1-2 weeks to receive your repair product.

The product is subject to final inspection before it is repaired/exchanged.

You really think if your watch stops in 11 months or the crown falls off you're gonna get a replacement?


How come all these posts about people wanting to do group buys get deleted(rightfully so), but people can link to a preorder of a sub that no one really knows anything about? Is this protecting the members?

 

[Jake48]

I haven't ordered anything from WM9 because I know I wont get what is advertised.

Pretty much ends the discussion for me. I can't really reason with a person who has supernatural powers and can see into the future...

We're getting off topic my friend - Like I said - I see your point - maybe you can take some time and try and see mine. Either way, I think I made how I feel pretty clear.

I want to wait and see. You do not. Just do me a favour. Let's wait until the watch comes out before we light the match...

 

[MICAVI]

I haven't ordered anything from WM9 because I know I wont get what is advertised.

Pretty much ends the discussion for me. I can't really reason with a person who has supernatural powers and can see into the future...

We're getting off topic my friend - Like I said - I see your point - maybe you can take some time and try and see mine. Either way, I think I made how I feel pretty clear.

I want to wait and see. You do not. Just do me a favour. Let's wait until the watch comes out before we light the match...

I don't have supernatural powers but I do have 20/20 vision and can see from the pictures that WM9's sub is not 1:1. But are you saying that if I order I won't receive the watch pictured? Is there a chance I'll receive a Swiss Grade 1 A+++ replica made in Europe? Cause last time I checked there wasn't such a thing. Doesn't take supernatural powers to reach a logical conclusion.

I can't really reason...

Well I agree with you on that.