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VOTE NOW: What should the new Shanghai 3235 movement be called?

What should we call the new Shanghai 3235 movement?


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Slugger

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…makes me think of something different (the BP/GMF variant).
I thought about that too. I bought an otherwise nice GMF SD43 with their “in house” version of the 3235 and we can agree that movement is a piece of junk. They also used the VR3235 which is a pretty solid (albeit hybrid) clone.

It was my experience with the BP/GMF home brew variant that I had in mind when I suggested above that it could get confusing designating a movement by the watch factory when that factory sells a single ref with multiple variants of a given caliber.

Also, since a single iteration of a given movement can be released from multiple factories simultaneously (ie BP and GMF), how do you name it…after both?

Finally, such as we’ve seen in the case of Dandong movements, the designation by primary movement factory would help in predicting the quality of a new movement or version when it is introduced.
 
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dogwood

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I had one of these movement cross my bench this morning in a brand new CF 36mm DJ. I didn't do a full service on the movement. The person who sent it to me just asked me to pressure test his new watch, so I only did a high level inspection as I was removing the movement from the case before the immersion test. Here's what I found.

Firstly it seems that Shanghai got rid of the idiotic decoration plate on the balance bridge (note the lack of seam -- blue arrow). And the paraflex shock setting does appear to be real (yellow arrow). I wonder if the paraflex shock springs will be interchangeable between DD and SH movements? And on the example I have the hairspring is mounted anti-clockwise (red arrow). EDIT: (I messed up the previous version of this and said the hairspring was clockwise, it's not, it's anti-clockwise. The picture below shows the correct orientation of the red arrow now).



When I removed the balance to get a look at it from the bottom, I noticed a few things. First, the balance end shake adjuster isn't functional. The golden screw doesn't turn a gear to adjust the end-shake knob (purple arrows). This is a disappointment and means that it'll be impossible to adjust end shake without shims (annoying), but also that this movement won't be compatible with gen balances. Also, note that the pallet fork (orange arrow) isn't the chronenergy skewed design. I suspect the pallet fork / balance / escape wheel is basically the same as we saw on the VR3235 although I don't know if the parts will be interchangeable.



Next up I removed the automatic works to get a look if Shanghai used the ring support jewel for the winding pinion. They didn't (black arrow). That's not a big deal since the VR3235 never had issues in this area and it doesn't have one. But it's a sign that corners were cut in the design.



Finally, looking at the train bridge there are two things to note: 1) there is no shock setting for the escape wheel like we see on the Dandong VS3235 (cyan arrow), and 2) the intermediate winding works appear to be 3135 style the same as the VR3235 (green arrow).



I can also confirm that the stem is a 3135 style stem, so I strongly suspect that we're basically looking at an updated VR3235 movement with a new balance complete. That's not a bad thing. I'm happy that Shanghai has ditched the fake hairspring stud and move the beat and rate adjusters to be more easily accessible. But this is not an equal to the Dandong VS3235 although now it is much harder to tell the two apart -- going forward the best way to tell these two apart is going to be the size of the crown winding works pinion hole in the train bridge (green arrow in my pics above and well described by @KJ2020 above).

Given the small number of changes, I'm somewhat inclined to call this a VR3235 v2 since not much has changed. But If the VR3235 and this movement end up not having interchangeable parts, then that label might make things even more confusing.
 
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Slugger

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Given the small number of changes, I'm somewhat inclined to call this a VR3235 v2 since not much has changed. But If the VR3235 and this movement end up not having interchangeable parts, then that label might make things even more confusing.

Nice review my friend. The new movement looks like an upgrade of the sturdy (but not a super clone) VR hybrid. Good riddance to that kooky balance thing they had. I've always felt a clock (or watch) hairspring should turn "clockwise" because anything else is just anti-clockwise.:ROFLMAO:

VR3235 v2 or VR32235.2 (which might be a more accurate nomenclature)
 
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KJ2020

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I had one of these movement cross my bench this morning in a brand new CF 36mm DJ. I didn't do a full service on the movement. The person who sent it to me just asked me to pressure test his new watch, so I only did a high level inspection as I was removing the movement from the case before the immersion test. Here's what I found.

Firstly it seems that Shanghai got rid of the idiotic decoration plate on the balance bridge (note the lack of seam -- blue arrow). And the paraflex shock setting does appear to be real (yellow arrow). I wonder if the paraflex shock springs will be interchangeable between DD and SH movements? And on the example I have the hairspring is mounted anti-clockwise (red arrow). EDIT: (I messed up the previous version of this and said the hairspring was clockwise, it's not, it's anti-clockwise. The picture below shows the correct orientation of the red arrow now).



When I removed the balance to get a look at it from the bottom, I noticed a few things. First, the balance end shake adjuster isn't functional. The golden screw doesn't turn a gear to adjust the end-shake knob (purple arrows). This is a disappointment and means that it'll be impossible to adjust end shake without shims (annoying), but also that this movement won't be compatible with gen balances. Also, note that the pallet fork (orange arrow) isn't the chronenergy skewed design. I suspect the pallet fork / balance / escape wheel is basically the same as we saw on the VR3235 although I don't know if the parts will be interchangeable.



Next up I removed the automatic works to get a look if Shanghai used the ring support jewel for the winding pinion. They didn't (black arrow). That's not a big deal since the VR3235 never had issues in this area and it doesn't have one. But it's a sign that corners were cut in the design.



Finally, looking at the train bridge there are two things to note: 1) there is no shock setting for the escape wheel like we see on the Dandong VS3235 (cyan arrow), and 2) the intermediate winding works appear to be 3135 style the same as the VR3235 (green arrow).



I can also confirm that the stem is a 3135 style stem, so I strongly suspect that we're basically looking at an updated VR3235 movement with a new balance complete. That's not a bad thing. I'm happy that Shanghai has ditched the fake hairspring stud and move the beat and rate adjusters to be more easily accessible. But this is not an equal to the Dandong VS3235 although now it is much harder to tell the two apart -- going forward the best way to tell these two apart is going to be the size of the crown winding works pinion hole in the train bridge (green arrow in my pics above and well described by @KJ2020 above).

Given the small number of changes, I'm somewhat inclined to call this a VR3235 v2 since not much has changed. But If the VR3235 and this movement end up not having interchangeable parts, then that label might make things even more confusing.
Beautiful pics and great commentary bro. Looks more and more VR-ish but for the balance assembly. That's significantly positive though. Love to know for certain about the calendar parts but I get it that a dial and hands removal wasn't in the mix this time. We'll know soon enough.

Especially if this has 3135 calendar parts but even without that I also like the VR3235 v2 moniker. Maybe there are too many SH's around to add this as another. After all, as I understand it every previous VR was really an SH too.
 

majwilliams0308

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No big loss with the 3135 style keyless, it's easier to mess with and I (personally) have way more spares of the 3135 keyless if anything messes up. My experience with the 32XX movement keyless is hit or miss - sometimes I get a watch that really just is fickle with tolerances on the sliding pinion, etc.
 

Jackster

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Jeez, that was a lot to take in in one hit... my mind is officially blown, thanks for the great post, I will re-read it now 10 more times in the hope that something sinks in!

Nice work! 😉 p.s... can't vote yet, not educated enough!
 
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dogwood

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Looks like now there is a 3285 version with this base 3235 movement.


Since there is already an SH3235 and SH3285 that are not hybrids with the 31xx,

I vote we call we new ones VR3235 V2 and VR3285 as they are both 3135 hybrids.

When it rains it pours. Fair point... looks like these new hybrids are coming fast and furious. I'm with you on calling the new 3235 thing a vr3235 v2 since it's basically the same as the vr3235 with the exception of the balance bridge.

As for this new GMT movement, we're basically looking at a SH3285 with an updated balance bridge that doesn't include the fake decoration plate. I guess that's good, but it's going to make identifying a DD3285 that much harder for exactly the same reason that the vr3235 v2 is going to make identifying a VS3235 harder.

That said, developments on the movements side are always a good thing :)
 
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KJ2020

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When it rains it pours. Fair point... looks like these new hybrids are coming fast and furious. I'm with you on calling the new 3235 thing a vr3235 v2 since it's basically the same as the vr3235 with the exception of the balance bridge.

As for this new GMT movement, we're basically looking at a SH3285 with an updated balance bridge that doesn't include the fake decoration plate. I guess that's good, but it's going to make identifying a DD3285 that much harder for exactly the same reason that the vr3235 v2 is going to make identifying a VS3235 harder.

That said, developments on the movements side are always a good thing :)
We should probably wait to see what the factories/TDs decide to call these "New SH" movements. Maybe they will have a good way to differentiate them.

As far as visual cues both the "new SHs" being hybrids, are using the 3135 crown wheel and stem so the hole in the train wheel bridge just shows the bottom of the crown wheel screw shaft. This is just like the 3135 except it has a separate winding bridge for those parts.

K0FCBL.jpeg


THE DD (VS) and the "old SH" has the much larger hole in the train wheel bridge for the intermediate winding gear post.

K0Fp5Q.jpeg


Easy instant ID when you can see the whole part of the train bridge past the model number engraving.
 
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Federicox

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Hello fellas,

Do you know if this new SH3235 or vr3235 v2 had its power reserve increased from the previous 40h to the 70h? I have heard different statements from different sources. Looking at this threat I hardly doubt it but I wanted to clarify it for once.

Thank you in advance!
 

dogwood

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Hello fellas,

Do you know if this new SH3235 or vr3235 v2 had its power reserve increased from the previous 40h to the 70h? I have heard different statements from different sources. Looking at this threat I hardly doubt it but I wanted to clarify it for once.

Thank you in advance!
I haven’t had the chance to have one in hand to test. But I strongly suspect that it doesn’t have a 70 hour power reserve based on the geometry of the escapement.
 

G_trail

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but why on new sh3235 did they include that "chronometer perpetua" wording?
 

Wildwatch

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And do u know of the are a new vr3230? For exepmle for explorer 36mm.
Li Li tell me that is sh3230 with 70h power reserve… but I’m not shure.
 

dogwood

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And do u know of the are a new vr3230? For exepmle for explorer 36mm.
Li Li tell me that is sh3230 with 70h power reserve… but I’m not shure.
Link? I suspect it’s simply a vr3230 with an outward facing balance regulator. I wouldn’t trust the quoted power reserve numbers.
 
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dogwood

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