UK customs detained...any advice?

[rolex4me]

oh man, that hurts.unfortunately i can't give you any advice on what to do, as i've never (fortunately) been in such a situation.but it would be nice if you would tell us how it all turned out, so that others members can learn from it. I wish you the best of luck with your problem and hope that you don't lose interest in the rep game.
ps. i sent a bracelet to england 2 weeks ago (from germany) which fortunately arrived without any problems (i sent without tracking).

 

[geoffdragon]

Have to agree with @Bad Wolf.

They are your property being returned from having work done to them.

Explain the work done and the cost of this work...include a receipt.

And if you have it, provide the details of the postage when you sent the watches abroad - this "proves" you are not buying or selling anything..so any customs duty would be only on the value of the work done, not on the items themselves.

Good luck and keep us posted (excuse the pun)

 

[dave180]

I have found a load of threads here from 2013/14 era but nothing recent.

I sent two lovely watches off to the US for repolishing work. One franken explorer and the other being a wedding day gift!

Not ideal when I received a letter today from UK boarder force!

Any advice here? Do I write this off or can something be done? Never really found a clear answer!

It happens all the time in Germany too, your first mistake was not printing a fake receipt and certificate from Rolex and put it in the box, if you do they open the package see this inside and send it on its way, your best option is going on eBay or Chrono24 and looking for certificate of authenticity and photoshopping it with your watch SN

 

[orob88]

Also, just for clarity,

Was the package intercepted by customs as it was going out of the UK to the US, or as it was coming back in to the UK? That letter seems to imply the parcel was addressed to you, but surely if it was outbound it would have been addressed to the repair person in the US ?

Hey.

It made it safe to the USA from me...it did however take 2months with Royal Mail!

The issue was coming back to me from the US. Shipped by UPS from the repair guy

 

[eBoy]

It happens all the time in Germany too, your first mistake was not printing a fake receipt and certificate from Rolex and put it in the box, if you do they open the package see this inside and send it on its way, your best option is going on eBay or Chrono24 and looking for certificate of authenticity and photoshopping it with your watch SN

Pardon my French, but this is probably the dumbest advice I have so far read on RWI regarding German jurisprudence in the context of personal ownership of replicas, which is perfectly 100% legal in Germany...

What you describe though is forgery of certificates and official documents which is not just disorderly conduct, but actually a rather serious criminal felony in Germany.

@trailboss99 @daytona4me @P..DR..D I'd advocate for deletion/removal of above "advice", but let you decide, ultimately...

 

[MikeOxlong]

Pardon my French, but this is probably the dumbest advice I have so far read on RWI regarding German jurisprudence in the context of personal ownership of replicas, which is perfectly 100% legal in Germany...

What you describe though is forgery of certificates and official documents which is not just disorderly conduct, but actually a rather serious criminal felony in Germany.

@trailboss99 @daytona4me @P..DR..D I'd advocate for deletion/removal of above "advice", but let you decide, ultimately...

Yup, copyright infringement for personal use may not be an offence. Defrauding the authorities certainly is.

The logic of this is also strange, make it look real enough so inland revenue decide to tax you for 20% of £10k instead.

 

[eBoy]

It's not about logic. In Germany, nothing is about logic when it concerns the govt.

It's about potentially getting yourself into serious trouble with the authorities over here without the slightest need to do so. Perhaps forgery is not a big deal in the UK. I honestly don't know. Here, it is one ...

 

[eBoy]

The logic of this is also strange, make it look real enough so inland revenue decide to tax you for 20% of £10k instead.

Hahaha yeah. I didn't even consider this.

 

[eBoy]

@MikeOxlong So basically, you shoot yourself in the foot big time either way, right?

Scenario A) You fail to convince authorities, you end up with a forgery charge

Scenario B) You convince authorities your Patek 5711 rep is gen, now you're stuck with 40 grand debt in taxes.

 

[geoffdragon]

If your belongings are being returned to the UK from abroad there is no tax to pay on them as this would be double taxation. You will only be taxed on the work you had done to them.

So, prove to UPS you posted them out via Royal Mail, and show a receipt of the work you had done on them.

I suggest you try to speak to someone on the phone. I've always found UPS staff very helpful...they are only human after all...unlike an automated letter.

 

[orob88]

If your belongings are being returned to the UK from abroad there is no tax to pay on them as this would be double taxation. You will only be taxed on the work you had done to them.

So, prove to UPS you posted them out via Royal Mail, and show a receipt of the work you had done on them.

I suggest you try to speak to someone on the phone. I've always found UPS staff very helpful...they are only human after all...unlike an automated letter.

I think the issue lies with UK Boarder force for suspected IP infringement rather than UPS/taxation. As far as I am aware it would be out of UPS hands now and with UK government authorities...

I will see how this ends up. I believe if you refuse to have items destroyed they go over to a third party that can prosecute...not sure on what they are exactly prosecuting for though!?!

 

[wubsub]

did your watchmaker state that items are returned goods in the declaration? that is very important

 

[dave180]

Pardon my French, but this is probably the dumbest advice I have so far read on RWI regarding German jurisprudence in the context of personal ownership of replicas, which is perfectly 100% legal in Germany...

What you describe though is forgery of certificates and official documents which is not just disorderly conduct, but actually a rather serious criminal felony in Germany.

@trailboss99 @daytona4me @P..DR..D I'd advocate for deletion/removal of above "advice", but let you decide, ultimately...

Dude do whatever you want, it saved me a bunch of times, nobody cares about this stuff, and of they doubt you, tell them the guy who sold you the watch gave you the paperwork, also fake watches are very much illegal to buy / send through customs in Germany, always getting seized in Frankfurt, doesn't matter if you ship to yourself, they literally announced last year had over 170 Millon euro in fake watches seizures in Frankfurt.

 

[rolex4me]

Dude do whatever you want, it saved me a bunch of times, nobody cares about this stuff, and of they doubt you, tell them the guy who sold you the watch gave you the paperwork, also fake watches are very much illegal to buy / send through customs in Germany, always getting seized in Frankfurt, doesn't matter if you ship to yourself, they literally announced last year had over 170 Millon euro in fake watches seizures in Frankfurt.

these 170 million would be worth it if the watches had been real. now calculate the real value of the confiscated reps down then you come up with the actual value of the confiscations. if a gene e.g. 10,000 costs and the rep about 500, then that's 5% from the genpreis.5% of 170 mill. are ?? correct-8.5 mill. this is the value of the goods in RESALE.

 

[eBoy]

it saved me a bunch of times

How much did that amount to in import taxes / duties once you proved a "bunch of times" those reps were gens? Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to write off a few 100s for the reps than paying thousands in taxes for reps "disguised" as gens?

nobody cares about this stuff

German authorities don't care about receipt and certificate forgeries? OK. But that's simply untrue.

also fake watches are very much illegal to buy

Who told you that? It is perfectly legal for a private person to buy and own one for personal use in Germany. Selling with commercial (!) intent is illegal. Please cite the name of the German law with the exact penal code which supports your incorrect claim.

 

[orob88]

did your watchmaker state that items are returned goods in the declaration? that is very important

Unfortunately not

 

[orob88]

did your watchmaker state that items are returned goods in the declaration? that is very important

 

[dave180]

so yes if you already have the watch the law is pretty gray here, transporting package with a sold fake watch through customs is very much illegal, if it was perfectly legal like you say why German customs seizures in the fallowing link? but please keep lying to yourself...
https://starconnectmedia.com/german-customs-announce-seizure-of-e170-million-worth-of-fake-watches/
i send stuff to Germany all the time, i have family in there, they have %19 vat tax on tons of stuff, yes if its an expensive item you will need to pay,
i usually put a fake receipt that the item is broken and cost less then 40 euro, never have a problem

 

[dave180]

How much did that amount to in import taxes / duties once you proved a "bunch of times" those reps were gens? Wouldn't it have been much cheaper to write off a few 100s for the reps than paying thousands in taxes for reps "disguised" as gens?


German authorities don't care about receipt and certificate forgeries? OK. But that's simply untrue.


Who told you that? It is perfectly legal for a private person to buy and own one for personal use in Germany. Selling with commercial (!) intent is illegal. Please cite the name of the German law with the exact penal code which supports your incorrect claim.

so yes if you already have the watch the law is pretty gray here, transporting package with a sold fake watch through customs is very much illegal, if it was perfectly legal like you say why German customs seizures in the fallowing link? but please keep lying to yourself...
https://starconnectmedia.com/german-customs-announce-seizure-of-e170-million-worth-of-fake-watches/
i send stuff to Germany all the time, i have family in there, they have %19 vat tax on tons of stuff, yes if its an expensive item you will need to pay,
i usually put a fake receipt that the item is broken and cost less then 40 euro, never have a problem

 

[wubsub]

damn .. they probably think its a purchase from that declaration