This forum contains plenty of information on how to go about your (first) purchase with a Trusted Dealer.
The purpose of this thread is to put expectations into perspective and wipe the slate clean of some misconceptions around the whole purchasing experience of counterfeit watches.
Also, I would like to give some advice about how to deal with those misconstrued expectations.
What motivated me writing this is the all too frequent complaints about perceived bad service or even alleged scams.
Disclaimer: I am not being paid by any factory, Trusted Dealer or even RWI. On the contrary, I myself pay RWI a supporter fee to contribute financially to the upkeep of the forum and therefore partly assist in ensuring the gargantuan amount of information is available to all the members (contributing and non-contributing)
Furthermore, English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse my mediocre syntax.
Some basics first:
Factories produce (or assemble) watches from parts, Dealers only source them from the factories for selling to the end customers (YOU).
All the Dealers have access to all factories/watches (some have better/preferential connections to some factories), so the question “who is the best dealer for this watch?” is inane.
You have to pick the dealer yourself from the list provided by RWI in the relevant section (warning: use only RWI’s Trusted Dealers by following RWI’s links, do not ever google them).
forum.replica-watch.info
A Dealer becomes “Trusted” for RWI after they get vetted by RWI Admin. There are certain requirements to be met, including, but not limited to the ability to source watches, capability to speak English, availability to provide QC, but foremost, willingness to work with RWI staff for dispute resolution.
You will not get scammed by a Trusted Dealer. And rationally, do you think a Trusted Dealer would ruin their reputation, and ultimately, their revenues from the collective forum clientele for 500 bucks? The purpose of the RWI Trusted Dealers list is to provide you with a scam-free selection of sources where you can find the watch you want.
Still, you must do a bit of homework yourself before putting your money in their hands. As any other commercial enterprise, they have different terms and conditions (T&Cs), they have different shipping and refund policies, they have different payment methods.
It is up to YOU to read those and pick the one YOU feel more comfortable with. For example, some Trusted Dealers offer a free refund/replacement in case of customs seizure (but it’s not like you call them and tell them, you have to give proof of that. More of that later). Maybe that’s one of the reasons why some are more expensive than others, don’t you think?
Lastly on the Trusted Dealers, they’re normal people running small outfits (sometimes even one-person shows), taking clear risks in handling counterfeit goods, negotiating hundreds of orders at a time and managing a family on the sides. They’re not 24-7 available for you and your queries (although some are pretty damn quick in responding). You have to cut them some slack.
The general rule of thumb is, the TD will respond when, and if, they have something to tell you. They won’t send you a PM per week saying “no news”. But they will answer promptly if they have news. If you read the stickies you should have learned that patience is the key for a good purchasing experience.
You should also have learned that harassing the TD will do you no good and will not do anything to change the situation.
You can ask your TD for a polite update on a weekly basis, but don’t expect an immediate answer and don’t go in Karen-mode after a couple of hours. Sourcing watches can take time, sometimes, a LOT of time (like, months). That’s the nature of this game. The less popular the watch, the more difficult to source it.
Put in some police raids that regularly affect the industry, and the wait can be even longer. Throw in Chinese New Year, another delay.
Now you have chosen a watch (a specific one, with all the specs), you chose a TD and are ready to make an order (again, plenty of stickies on the topic in the New Members Area, please read those).
First rule, contact the TD of your choice and ask for availability: can they source the watch at all?
Sometimes (quite often, actually) watches listed on the TD sites are not available anymore, they’ve been discontinued, or the factory doesn’t even exist anymore (Noob, for instance!).
Then, follow the TD’s instructions, place the order, make a payment.
It can sometimes happen that, even after the TD said he could source the watch and you have made a payment, the watch is not readily available or even not available at all. Maybe the factory just discontinued that particular model, maybe the wait would be too long due to already mentioned delay events. In this case be prepared to either wait a lot of time to get feedback from the TD or the TD communicating you he can't source it after all and will you please consider ordering another model. This can happen. Please do not open a thread ranting about lousy customer service and "the TD told me xy but didn't keep his word". THIS JUST HAPPENS, be prepared for this possibility. The best way to manage such a situation is, as always, communicate with him, find a solution with him. If you don't want to change watch, you'll most probably get refunded (in which case be aware that in relation to your payment method additional fees may be due and you may not receive the full sum you paid in the first place; risks of dealing in this industry, account for it and don't call any TD a scammer because of it, it's not his fault).
After that, wait. And wait. And be prepared to wait even more.
At some point ranging from 1 day (say, a Clean Daytona) to some weeks or even months (e.g. a Jacob & Co. Astronomia Tourbillon….) you’ll receive QC pics.
Please read the rules about QC pics.
forum.replica-watch.info
forum.replica-watch.info
QC is for YOU and YOU ONLY! It’s to make sure the watch is the one you ordered and all visible things are where they should be. Nothing more.
Your eyes are as good as the next guy’s, so asking for their opinion is pointless. You are the one wearing it, your opinion is all that matters.
As for timegrapher results, they’re a snapshot in time that will only tell you the watch is running and keeping, more or less, time. Those results will be different when taken under different conditions and foremost after a potentially wobbly shipping.
After you have GL’d the watch, wait a bit more. After a couple of days (dealers use shipping agents, they don’t ship themselves) you’ll receive tracking information.
This is the point where the dealer’s terms and conditions come into play. They have as much control over shipment as you have, so don’t expect them to know the location of your watch better than the tracking app.
It’s not unusual at all for the parcel to disappear from tracking for a week or two, sometimes even more, and then magically appear a couple of kilometers away from your hands.
Sometimes the parcel gets lost, sometimes the tracking will tell you it’s been delivered although it hasn’t, sometimes (rarely) you’ll get a notification from customs. A number of things can happen.
The most important thing is, be patient and keep your cool. In any case, ALWAYS KEEP A CIVIL COMMUNICATION with the Trusted Dealer. Even if they ghost you (or, you think they're ghosting you…).
Again, they’re busy people and there’s only that much they can do in any case, they are also relying on third party information.
Now, if after a reasonable amount of time and all yours and the TD’s best efforts the watch is definitely/unanimously/undoubtedly declared lost/seized/destroyed/whatever and you think you are entitled to some kind of refund but have not reached any reasonable agreement with him, then, and only then, you may open a helpdesk ticket to have RWI staff help sort things out with the TD.
This is the very last resort, you should always aim at an amicable resolution with the TD.
But remember: the TD’s terms and conditions apply and you have agreed to those the moment you made an order.
Also remember: this game is full of risks and if you don’t accept them or if you ignore them, then the fault is on you.
A typical misconstrued expectation is that the TD should give a full refund or replacement. Wrong. Shipping fees are almost always extra, you’ll have to pay those again most of the times.
Also, any currency conversion fees in case of certain types of payments.
Bottom line, you must be aware of what you’ve signed up for and take ownership of the intrinsic risks of dealing in the commerce of counterfeit goods. We’re grown ups here, aren’t we?
If instead you are spared the hassle of a lost/seized watch and it arrives safely in your hands, there’s some precautions you will want to take before putting it on your wrist.
Again, this has to do with the T&Cs. Before removing any stickers, make sure the watch is working, it winds, it changes date. The stickers are equal to a warranty seal.
You can make a DOA claim only if the stickers are still on, otherwise, the warranty is void and you’ll have to rely solely on the TD’s good will to find a solution. For this kind of “negotiation” the same conduct rules as above apply: keep calm, keep the conversation civil and seek help from the helpdesk only if no reasonable solution is reached.
The good news in all of this is, the last scenario is the most frequent one: you receive a working watch and carry a big smile on your face when wearing it for the first time.
A smile that will make your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend wonder if you're having an affair…
In this case, please don’t end it there. Take some extra time and effort to post a positive review of your transaction with the TD.
And please post it in the right place: every TD has a subforum page on RWI exclusively dedicated to buyer’s reviews, don’t post it on their general subforum.
It is extremely important for you to do so to give a realistic picture of the TD’s service.
Bad reviews sometimes outweigh the good ones only because fewer people take the time to post positive experiences. This gives a distorted picture of the real service provided by the TD.
In turn, when you want to make a decision on a TD based on the TD’s buyers’ reviews, please consider that disgruntled customers are far more likely to vent their frustrations than happy ones are to share their good experience (remember the smile?).
You may think “well, who cares about statistics, I got my awesome watch on my wrist”. But trust me, it is important.
As with unnecessary QC extra requests, bad reviews entice more bad reviews which translates in more work for the TD. This will ultimately reflect in pricing. More hassle, more efforts, more time, more costs.
It is a widely shared opinion of the more senior members of this forum that problematic, unnecessary QC processes have affected the final price we pay for our reps.
Now many will think they’re entitled to a top-notch quality service.
This they are, but what is frequently failed to be considered is that we’re talking about illegal copies of watches, not the real thing.
You won’t have Amaz0n customer service.
You get what you pay for and if you think you’re entitled to more, then you have a distorted vision of this particular reality.
I hope this will help in setting the right expectations in a TD purchase. Remember also that the RWI community is always there to support you, give advice, provide comfort with many cumulated years of experience.
Bottom line, take it easy, be patient, enjoy the trepidation of the wait climaxing in the elation of holding a fine (rep) timepiece in your hands.
Cheers!
Edit to include an interesting thread on how the industry works:
The purpose of this thread is to put expectations into perspective and wipe the slate clean of some misconceptions around the whole purchasing experience of counterfeit watches.
Also, I would like to give some advice about how to deal with those misconstrued expectations.
What motivated me writing this is the all too frequent complaints about perceived bad service or even alleged scams.
Disclaimer: I am not being paid by any factory, Trusted Dealer or even RWI. On the contrary, I myself pay RWI a supporter fee to contribute financially to the upkeep of the forum and therefore partly assist in ensuring the gargantuan amount of information is available to all the members (contributing and non-contributing)
Furthermore, English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse my mediocre syntax.
Some basics first:
Factories produce (or assemble) watches from parts, Dealers only source them from the factories for selling to the end customers (YOU).
All the Dealers have access to all factories/watches (some have better/preferential connections to some factories), so the question “who is the best dealer for this watch?” is inane.
You have to pick the dealer yourself from the list provided by RWI in the relevant section (warning: use only RWI’s Trusted Dealers by following RWI’s links, do not ever google them).
BIG WARNING - Do not Google TDs to order a watch.
If ordering from a TD follow the instructions in their sections here on RWI. https://forum.replica-watch.info/forums/trusted-dealers-wanna-buy-a-watch-click-here.137/ There are a numerous scam sites using the names of TDs here. For example: https://marvellousreplica.co/en_gb/ That is not...
forum.replica-watch.info
A Dealer becomes “Trusted” for RWI after they get vetted by RWI Admin. There are certain requirements to be met, including, but not limited to the ability to source watches, capability to speak English, availability to provide QC, but foremost, willingness to work with RWI staff for dispute resolution.
You will not get scammed by a Trusted Dealer. And rationally, do you think a Trusted Dealer would ruin their reputation, and ultimately, their revenues from the collective forum clientele for 500 bucks? The purpose of the RWI Trusted Dealers list is to provide you with a scam-free selection of sources where you can find the watch you want.
Still, you must do a bit of homework yourself before putting your money in their hands. As any other commercial enterprise, they have different terms and conditions (T&Cs), they have different shipping and refund policies, they have different payment methods.
It is up to YOU to read those and pick the one YOU feel more comfortable with. For example, some Trusted Dealers offer a free refund/replacement in case of customs seizure (but it’s not like you call them and tell them, you have to give proof of that. More of that later). Maybe that’s one of the reasons why some are more expensive than others, don’t you think?
Lastly on the Trusted Dealers, they’re normal people running small outfits (sometimes even one-person shows), taking clear risks in handling counterfeit goods, negotiating hundreds of orders at a time and managing a family on the sides. They’re not 24-7 available for you and your queries (although some are pretty damn quick in responding). You have to cut them some slack.
The general rule of thumb is, the TD will respond when, and if, they have something to tell you. They won’t send you a PM per week saying “no news”. But they will answer promptly if they have news. If you read the stickies you should have learned that patience is the key for a good purchasing experience.
You should also have learned that harassing the TD will do you no good and will not do anything to change the situation.
You can ask your TD for a polite update on a weekly basis, but don’t expect an immediate answer and don’t go in Karen-mode after a couple of hours. Sourcing watches can take time, sometimes, a LOT of time (like, months). That’s the nature of this game. The less popular the watch, the more difficult to source it.
Put in some police raids that regularly affect the industry, and the wait can be even longer. Throw in Chinese New Year, another delay.
Now you have chosen a watch (a specific one, with all the specs), you chose a TD and are ready to make an order (again, plenty of stickies on the topic in the New Members Area, please read those).
First rule, contact the TD of your choice and ask for availability: can they source the watch at all?
Sometimes (quite often, actually) watches listed on the TD sites are not available anymore, they’ve been discontinued, or the factory doesn’t even exist anymore (Noob, for instance!).
Then, follow the TD’s instructions, place the order, make a payment.
It can sometimes happen that, even after the TD said he could source the watch and you have made a payment, the watch is not readily available or even not available at all. Maybe the factory just discontinued that particular model, maybe the wait would be too long due to already mentioned delay events. In this case be prepared to either wait a lot of time to get feedback from the TD or the TD communicating you he can't source it after all and will you please consider ordering another model. This can happen. Please do not open a thread ranting about lousy customer service and "the TD told me xy but didn't keep his word". THIS JUST HAPPENS, be prepared for this possibility. The best way to manage such a situation is, as always, communicate with him, find a solution with him. If you don't want to change watch, you'll most probably get refunded (in which case be aware that in relation to your payment method additional fees may be due and you may not receive the full sum you paid in the first place; risks of dealing in this industry, account for it and don't call any TD a scammer because of it, it's not his fault).
After that, wait. And wait. And be prepared to wait even more.
At some point ranging from 1 day (say, a Clean Daytona) to some weeks or even months (e.g. a Jacob & Co. Astronomia Tourbillon….) you’ll receive QC pics.
Please read the rules about QC pics.
The purpose of QC pictures
At RWI, we're fortunate to have a few dealers who take the time to individually procure, inspect, and photograph watches for potential buyers. This has not always been the norm, and in fact, it's a recent development. Up until about two years ago, all of the dealers drop-shipped everything and...
forum.replica-watch.info
A little on QC pics.
QC pics are to satisfy YOU that the watch is OK to YOUR standards, that there are no crooked indices, missing lume, offset chrono hands etc. QC pics are not for picking tells or things that are present in every example of a model such as spelling errors, happy feet, wrong lume colour etc. These...
forum.replica-watch.info
QC is for YOU and YOU ONLY! It’s to make sure the watch is the one you ordered and all visible things are where they should be. Nothing more.
Your eyes are as good as the next guy’s, so asking for their opinion is pointless. You are the one wearing it, your opinion is all that matters.
As for timegrapher results, they’re a snapshot in time that will only tell you the watch is running and keeping, more or less, time. Those results will be different when taken under different conditions and foremost after a potentially wobbly shipping.
After you have GL’d the watch, wait a bit more. After a couple of days (dealers use shipping agents, they don’t ship themselves) you’ll receive tracking information.
This is the point where the dealer’s terms and conditions come into play. They have as much control over shipment as you have, so don’t expect them to know the location of your watch better than the tracking app.
It’s not unusual at all for the parcel to disappear from tracking for a week or two, sometimes even more, and then magically appear a couple of kilometers away from your hands.
Sometimes the parcel gets lost, sometimes the tracking will tell you it’s been delivered although it hasn’t, sometimes (rarely) you’ll get a notification from customs. A number of things can happen.
The most important thing is, be patient and keep your cool. In any case, ALWAYS KEEP A CIVIL COMMUNICATION with the Trusted Dealer. Even if they ghost you (or, you think they're ghosting you…).
Again, they’re busy people and there’s only that much they can do in any case, they are also relying on third party information.
Now, if after a reasonable amount of time and all yours and the TD’s best efforts the watch is definitely/unanimously/undoubtedly declared lost/seized/destroyed/whatever and you think you are entitled to some kind of refund but have not reached any reasonable agreement with him, then, and only then, you may open a helpdesk ticket to have RWI staff help sort things out with the TD.
This is the very last resort, you should always aim at an amicable resolution with the TD.
But remember: the TD’s terms and conditions apply and you have agreed to those the moment you made an order.
Also remember: this game is full of risks and if you don’t accept them or if you ignore them, then the fault is on you.
A typical misconstrued expectation is that the TD should give a full refund or replacement. Wrong. Shipping fees are almost always extra, you’ll have to pay those again most of the times.
Also, any currency conversion fees in case of certain types of payments.
Bottom line, you must be aware of what you’ve signed up for and take ownership of the intrinsic risks of dealing in the commerce of counterfeit goods. We’re grown ups here, aren’t we?
If instead you are spared the hassle of a lost/seized watch and it arrives safely in your hands, there’s some precautions you will want to take before putting it on your wrist.
Again, this has to do with the T&Cs. Before removing any stickers, make sure the watch is working, it winds, it changes date. The stickers are equal to a warranty seal.
You can make a DOA claim only if the stickers are still on, otherwise, the warranty is void and you’ll have to rely solely on the TD’s good will to find a solution. For this kind of “negotiation” the same conduct rules as above apply: keep calm, keep the conversation civil and seek help from the helpdesk only if no reasonable solution is reached.
The good news in all of this is, the last scenario is the most frequent one: you receive a working watch and carry a big smile on your face when wearing it for the first time.
A smile that will make your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend wonder if you're having an affair…
In this case, please don’t end it there. Take some extra time and effort to post a positive review of your transaction with the TD.
And please post it in the right place: every TD has a subforum page on RWI exclusively dedicated to buyer’s reviews, don’t post it on their general subforum.
It is extremely important for you to do so to give a realistic picture of the TD’s service.
Bad reviews sometimes outweigh the good ones only because fewer people take the time to post positive experiences. This gives a distorted picture of the real service provided by the TD.
In turn, when you want to make a decision on a TD based on the TD’s buyers’ reviews, please consider that disgruntled customers are far more likely to vent their frustrations than happy ones are to share their good experience (remember the smile?).
You may think “well, who cares about statistics, I got my awesome watch on my wrist”. But trust me, it is important.
As with unnecessary QC extra requests, bad reviews entice more bad reviews which translates in more work for the TD. This will ultimately reflect in pricing. More hassle, more efforts, more time, more costs.
It is a widely shared opinion of the more senior members of this forum that problematic, unnecessary QC processes have affected the final price we pay for our reps.
Now many will think they’re entitled to a top-notch quality service.
This they are, but what is frequently failed to be considered is that we’re talking about illegal copies of watches, not the real thing.
You won’t have Amaz0n customer service.
You get what you pay for and if you think you’re entitled to more, then you have a distorted vision of this particular reality.
I hope this will help in setting the right expectations in a TD purchase. Remember also that the RWI community is always there to support you, give advice, provide comfort with many cumulated years of experience.
Bottom line, take it easy, be patient, enjoy the trepidation of the wait climaxing in the elation of holding a fine (rep) timepiece in your hands.
Cheers!
Edit to include an interesting thread on how the industry works:
Last edited:
