Timegrapher QC, regulation and DIY

[DucatiWiz]

My QC image for my Nautilus PPFv4 said 0 m/s beat error and +5 secs per 24hrs time gain. Well, either the watch took one almighty wallop in transit, which knocked it all out or some of the TD's aren't totally honest with the Timegrapher pics , because my watch was gaining 2.5 minutes per 24 hrs when it arrived!

Either way, the watch you get might not be accurate, so for those who are fairly good at DIY tinkering, here is a good cheap fix for the commonly used Miyota 9015 movement:

1. Download the Timegrapher app from your smartphone app store. It costs £12.99 (UK) but is well worth it.
2. Measure the beat of the watch using the mic on your headset or even just by holding the watch to your smartphone works in a very quiet room.
3. Take the back off of your watch using the appropriate tool bought for a few quid off Amazon.
4. Using a jeweller's eyeglass or other magnifying glass, carefully move the top lever (red arrow) on the escapement as pictured below. Clockwise to make slower, anti-clockwise to speed up. Nudge it by the smallest possible amounts you can, then recheck with the app. I'd STRONGLY recommend using a jeweller's loop, you don't want to touch the hairspring or damage the movement in any way.

The lower lever (blue) is used for adjusting the beat error, which for those who don't know, is the difference between the length of the "tick and tock" as the balance wheel rotates clockwise and anti-clockwise. Adjusting the top lever will also change the beat - and may make the error better or worse, but I'd recommend not touching this lever anyway if it's your first time. If you start adjusting the upper and lower levers, you'll be in for a long night of micro-adjustment - checking - more adjustment - more checking... Might be worth taking a photo of the positions before you start just in case it goes wrong, you could get back close to where you started.

After adjusting mine, using nothing more than the £12.99 app, I managed to regulate it to less than 1 sec per 24 hours and that is correct according to the atomic clock I've been monitoring it against over the past 3 days. The beat error is now under 1, which is as good as I could get it, but much better than the it was over 6.0+ it was when I first checked it!

The Miyota 9015 movement is a very nice, relatively high beat movement capable of good accuracy if properly regulated. A good choice for these watches.

Here's my Timegrapher after adjustment. Very happy with the result.

 

[Tobel]

Very interesting thread, thanks for taking the time!

 

[DucatiWiz]

Thanks, appreciated. What I’ve noticed is that during the day when I’m wearing it, it gains about 5 seconds, then when it’s on my side table overnight, it loses 5. Half way through the day, it’s exactly correct to the second according to the atomic clock. It’s done that same thing for 5 days in a row now and whilst I’d really like to get beat error lower and I like tinkering, I daren’t touch it as I’m sure there was a fair amount of luck involved where I mine ended up and I’ll never be able to get it that good again :/.


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[Logixa]

DucatiWiz buddy are you sure about those arrows for regulation?

I dont think that the red arrow one is for adjusting the beat error. Neither is the red arrow for adjusting the timing, its just decoration. The blue arrow is for timing.
Looking at your picture after regulation and I see that the beat error is way too high with 0.9ms and the amplitude is too low with 214.

check below picture, green arrow is what I think the right handle to adjust beat error.

The gaining/loss of time on your wrist vs sitting on desk is normal. You have only adjusted the watch in 1 position and not 5 or 6.

To do things correctly:
1. Manual wind the watch fully (40x +)
2. Measure the watch and adjust the beat error to as close to 0.0ms in 1 position (Green arrow)
3. measure the watch in the following positions: Dial up, Dial Down, Crown up, Crown down, 6 up, (6 down for 6 positions)
4. add the measurements of all position up to each other, for example:-4+10-1-8+20= +17 sec / 5(positions) = +3,4 sec a day average across 5 positions
5. Put the watch in dial down position and measure the current timing.
6. Slower the watch down (blue arrow) in that position with 3,4 seconds.
7. If successful, your watch is now running perfectly 0 seconds a day while wearing.

 

[DucatiWiz]

Thanks for that. The red arrow definitely does adjust the timing - what I mean by that, is when you move it, the timing changes - clockwise makes it slower, ant--clockwise faster, however it seems like it might be doing that merely by friction on the other lever. That's the lever I used to move mine from +2.5 mins per day to almost perfect, but if you look at the undecorated Miyota, there are only two levers, the lower two of which look like the ones you have referenced, so I'm sure you're right.
Thanks, that's what's great about this site :drinks_cheers:

PS, as I work at a desk all day, I measured mine at the angles it'd most likely be at for the majority of the day and as I have it on a watch winder at night, I did it 1st thing in the morning from a automatic wind rather than a manual one. Seemed logical at the time but of course they are very specific circumstances to me.

 

[DucatiWiz]

Ok, this just got a little confusing. My PPF v4 with a Miyota 9015 is different from the picture I posted. It only has the two top levers not the lower one, so it looks like they may have changed the design. Mine is the same as the PPF V4 on the intime website, the other picture I got from elsewhere just because it was clearer and didn't notice the difference (sorry).

Thanks for pointing that out, but I think on the newer PPF V4s, what I said was correct, but the picture was wrong. Sorry, I'll try and get a clearer image of the newer escapement and update the 1st post so it isn't confusing.

 

[Ex-ki]

To do things correctly:
1. Manual wind the watch fully (40x +)
2. Measure the watch and adjust the beat error to as close to 0.0ms in 1 position (Green arrow)
3. measure the watch in the following positions: Dial up, Dial Down, Crown up, Crown down, 6 up, (6 down for 6 positions)
4. add the measurements of all position up to each other, for example:-4+10-1-8+20= +17 sec / 5(positions) = +3,4 sec a day average across 5 positions
5. Put the watch in dial down position and measure the current timing.
6. Slower the watch down (blue arrow) in that position with 3,4 seconds.
7. If successful, your watch is now running perfectly 0 seconds a day while wearing.

This is pure gold!
I didn't know how to handle the problem of regulating a watch only in one position. I have my answer, awesome Logixa

 

[DucatiWiz]

So, this is what mine looks like. Seems they have updated it so that the top lever is actually the one that adjusts the time whereas it was previously just decoration. Let me know if you think I should update the 1st post to save confusion.
'

 

[Logixa]

you seem to be right, it does look like the one initially pointed out with the red arrow is now for the beat error. There are indeed 2 different versions of this movement


You can always tell which is for regulating the timing and which one is for the beat error. The beat error one is always the one where the balance spring starts.

 

[R2L]

This is a great write-up but may I make a suggestion that you first attempt to demagnetize the watch before beginning? My first thought was that if your watch went from “0” to +2.5 mins, that it was impacted by a magnetic field. By passing it thru a demagnetizer, you may not need to go thru all this. Only if it does not work, then you may wish to go thru these steps.


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[pip72]

Any way to source this movement by itself? I have PP Aquanaut PF factory and it seems to stop or work intermittently.

 

[Oline8992]

DucatiWiz buddy are you sure about those arrows for regulation?

I dont think that the red arrow one is for adjusting the beat error. Neither is the red arrow for adjusting the timing, its just decoration. The blue arrow is for timing.
Looking at your picture after regulation and I see that the beat error is way too high with 0.9ms and the amplitude is too low with 214.

check below picture, green arrow is what I think the right handle to adjust beat error.

The gaining/loss of time on your wrist vs sitting on desk is normal. You have only adjusted the watch in 1 position and not 5 or 6.

To do things correctly:
1. Manual wind the watch fully (40x +)
2. Measure the watch and adjust the beat error to as close to 0.0ms in 1 position (Green arrow)
3. measure the watch in the following positions: Dial up, Dial Down, Crown up, Crown down, 6 up, (6 down for 6 positions)
4. add the measurements of all position up to each other, for example:-4+10-1-8+20= +17 sec / 5(positions) = +3,4 sec a day average across 5 positions
5. Put the watch in dial down position and measure the current timing.
6. Slower the watch down (blue arrow) in that position with 3,4 seconds.
7. If successful, your watch is now running perfectly 0 seconds a day while wearing.

Thank god I found this post! I was sitting 3hs trying to figure out how to get my PPF V4 adjusted and my guesses were right I think. I think that the Beat Error pin is hidden under the Red Arrow decoration thing so I adjusted the pin at the Blue Arrow. According to the Time Graph app I went from -15 sec/day to close to 0 sec/day now.

The thing I dont understand this being a Miyota 9015 you should get + seconds/day by turning the Blue Arrow Pin Anti-clockwise but its reversed.. How can this be?

 

[mmar141]

Sorry to revise a dead thread but this post is confusing to me. I have a movement that is the same as the first picture. Which lever do I move if my movement is running slightly slow? Red or blue lever?

 

[OnTheSly]

Here's my Timegrapher after adjustment. Very happy with the result.

Although the rate is OK, the BE and amplitude are out of spec. However, more of an issue is the shape of the trace. That periodic "roller coaster" type of wave suggest an issue somewhere in the train of wheels, and it looks like it is occurring about every 5 seconds. The Miyota 9015 is a 28,800 BPH movement with an escape wheel with 20 teeth. 28,800 bph is equal to 8 beats per second which means the escape wheel has turned through 4 teeth in that time, which translates to 5 seconds for a full revolution. So the escape wheel would be the first place to look for the fault.