• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

Theory: Rolex Serial Number encoded in crystal Laser Etched Crown (LEC)

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
I don't know if there's already a post about something like this... I honestly wouldn't know what to search for. But I was looking at gen vs. rep LECs, and I noticed that all the gen LECs aren't exactly straight:

GEN:


Whereas all of those on reps are very nicely aligned.
REP (my noob v4):


This makes me think that Rolex isn't getting the LEC dots aligned because they can't -- they have infinite money, if a factory in China can align dots on an LEC, then Rolex could if Rolex wanted to. From this we can conclude that Rolex is making the dots of their LEC not perfectly aligned because it wants to have the dots not perfectly aligned.

The second thing that I find interesting, is that if a crystal is replaced by Rolex during a service, the new crystal has an S etched into the hole in the crown:


And suspiciously, the dots on the S-version of the LEC crystal are very well aligned.

To me this feels like Rolex is encoding the serial number of the watch into the alignment pattern of the dots in the original LEC as an authenticity security feature. Doing so would be quite easy for Rolex in production, the laser etching could be one of the final steps after the case and blank crystal have been assembled, the laser etching machine simply etches a crown pattern that's distorted using a cryptographic hash of the serial number e.g. SHA256(serial_number)...

Or if they were being really sneaky they could do something much harder to reverse engineering like distort the crown using Encrypt(rolex_private_key, serial_number), because then any AD could (in theory) validate that the crystal matches the serial number on the case by reading the distortion pattern and checking to see if serial_number = Decrypt(rolex_public_key, distortion_pattern).
 
  • Like
Reactions: AG91 and nicmend

Raddave

Most Delicious of all Nipples!
Staff member
Global Moderator
Administrator
Certified
24/12/11
67,017
18,557
113
The S is for SERVICE xtal

and no , the dots are burned by laser at different heights , so if you hold them at an angle they dont look straight
 

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
The S is for SERVICE xtal

and no , the dots are burned by laser at different heights , so if you hold them at an angle they dont look straight

Interesting... although different heights are just another way of encoding information, not unlike back in the day when we used to "burn" CDs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raddave

Raddave

Most Delicious of all Nipples!
Staff member
Global Moderator
Administrator
Certified
24/12/11
67,017
18,557
113
im sure they would need a lot more dots to do that
 

Oascom

Respected Member
DO NOT TRADE WITH ME
Patron
Certified
19/1/16
4,408
5,060
113
It's designed this way to make it harder to replicate
 

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
im sure they would need a lot more dots to do that
I count 150 dot on the gen (138 in the crown and 12 in the hole).

Assuming each dot can encode either a 1 or a 0 (deep or shallow etching), that gives us 150 bits of "storage".

There are 36 possible characters (A-Z, 0-9) to encode. Each character would require 6-bits to encode. Technically Rolex could use 5-bit encoding if they picked 4 letters that would never appear in a serial number e.g. O-0, I-1, would be good candidates, as would Z-2 and B-8.

With 5-bit encoding we'd have enough bits to encode 30 characters in the LEC. With 6-bit encoding we'd have enough bits to encode 25 character. Rolex would probably use a few bits for parity, but that's more than enough to encode an encrypted 8-digit serial number. Even using standard 7-bit ASCII, you'd have enough room for 21 characters plus 3 parity bits.
 

trailboss99

Head Honcho - Cat Herder
Staff member
Administrator
Certified
30/3/08
43,269
15,982
113
Um, no.
if they really wanted to do that they would use a QR code instead of the crown. Also, what would be the advantage of doing so?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Oascom

Seadwellermike

Proud RWI Supporter
Banned
Certified
Yeah bud, your making alien space signals out of the letters in your Alphabet Soup bowl.

Chill, its layers in the crystal reacting to the laser. Nothing more. As indicated by the codes (like the S in service crystals, etc) they’ve done: if they want information there, they’ll put information there.
 

Raddave

Most Delicious of all Nipples!
Staff member
Global Moderator
Administrator
Certified
24/12/11
67,017
18,557
113
Maybe each dot is a microdot composed of 10 individual dots ......hmmmm
 

GrandmasterChime

Agent Provocateur
Certified
6/1/19
1,729
1,340
113
New Zealand
I don't know if there's already a post about something like this... I honestly wouldn't know what to search for. But I was looking at gen vs. rep LECs, and I noticed that all the gen LECs aren't exactly straight:

GEN:


Whereas all of those on reps are very nicely aligned.
REP (my noob v4):


This makes me think that Rolex isn't getting the LEC dots aligned because they can't -- they have infinite money, if a factory in China can align dots on an LEC, then Rolex could if Rolex wanted to. From this we can conclude that Rolex is making the dots of their LEC not perfectly aligned because it wants to have the dots not perfectly aligned.

The second thing that I find interesting, is that if a crystal is replaced by Rolex during a service, the new crystal has an S etched into the hole in the crown:


And suspiciously, the dots on the S-version of the LEC crystal are very well aligned.

To me this feels like Rolex is encoding the serial number of the watch into the alignment pattern of the dots in the original LEC as an authenticity security feature. Doing so would be quite easy for Rolex in production, the laser etching could be one of the final steps after the case and blank crystal have been assembled, the laser etching machine simply etches a crown pattern that's distorted using a cryptographic hash of the serial number e.g. SHA256(serial_number)...

Or if they were being really sneaky they could do something much harder to reverse engineering like distort the crown using Encrypt(rolex_private_key, serial_number), because then any AD could (in theory) validate that the crystal matches the serial number on the case by reading the distortion pattern and checking to see if serial_number = Decrypt(rolex_public_key, distortion_pattern).
They put the laser dots at different heights in the crystal in order to not weaken it.
 

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
Um, no.
if they really wanted to do that they would use a QR code instead of the crown. Also, what would be the advantage of doing so?
True… the QR code format give you a lot of stuff “for free” when it comes to encoding binary information in a 2D array.

For anyone who’s ever wondered what each part of a QR code does, here’s a great 60 second video explainer:

 
  • Like
Reactions: madmax783

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
They put the laser dots at different heights in the crystal in order to not weaken it.
That makes a lot of sense. Curious, is that your theory or info direct from Rolex?
 

dogwood

I'm Pretty Popular
Patron
Section Moderator
Certified
7/9/21
2,311
4,830
113
Canada
Yeah bud, your making alien space signals out of the letters in your Alphabet Soup bowl.

Chill, its layers in the crystal reacting to the laser. Nothing more. As indicated by the codes (like the S in service crystals, etc) they’ve done: if they want information there, they’ll put information there.
Agreed, it’s probably just my normal level of paranoia… but it raises the question of why would Rolex put an S on the crystals that get installed during a service?

Why go to the effort of having two crystal supply chains: one for originally installed crystals, and one for those installed during a service. That seems unlikely to have happened by accident, so why is Rolex making the effort to distinguish an originally installed crystal from one replaced during a service?

One explanation is that the original crystal is somehow marked with the encoded serial number of the watch… similar to how a vehicle’s VIN is marked in three places on a car: on the engine block, on the driver side door well, and under the windshield.

But obviously there could be another explanation. I’d love to know why there are S and non-S Rolex crystals. And if the LEC is simply an ornamental detail, why bother having S and non-S?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AG91 and nicmend

Storm.

Supreme Leader
Banned
Patron
Certified
14/2/20
7,875
11,290
113
1100 S. Ocean Blvd
Maybe each dot is a microdot composed of 10 individual dots ......hmmmm
Hackerman GIF by warrify