The asian 2836 clone, that isn't!

[katt]

Just wanted to concur with you-alexwaller on this. I have noticed this movement in BRTs SOSFs. I found them to be inordinately cheap and harder to work with than ETA clones. They may at first glance appear to be ETA clones but are very far from it-yuk.

 

[Toycarsmy]

Bronze color clone is the same price as the silver clone. No diff.


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New Sub c using tianji yingge TY2130. Is it better?

 

[d4m.test]

Yuck. I noticed some problems with my blue SOSF when pulling out the crown to change the time or date, and just thought I had a finicky asian ETA. Just now I tried it out and the date change is very slow like a Seiko (from 11:25pm to midnight) and it is still very difficult to get the crown in the right position for date and/or time change. So much for this watch being a great deal at $215. At least the hands will presumably fit a proper asian or swiss ETA if I swap movements, right?

 

[AllergyDoc]

I'm with big_raji. When this cheap movement quits, can we install a proper Asian ETA clone? Or gen ETA. The SOSF is otherwise a nice rep (except for the clasp, which is thin and cheap-feeling).

 

[Cynikal.Mindset]

Yuck. I noticed some problems with my blue SOSF when pulling out the crown to change the time or date, and just thought I had a finicky asian ETA. Just now I tried it out and the date change is very slow like a Seiko (from 11:25pm to midnight) and it is still very difficult to get the crown in the right position for date and/or time change. So much for this watch being a great deal at $215. At least the hands will presumably fit a proper asian or swiss ETA if I swap movements, right?

2 of 3 hands will fit...one may not without broaching

 

[Xman]

As an update to what I mentioned about this movement a few months back, the hour hand ended up slipping in my eta swapped sosf, so I built up the hand tube with thin CA glue, broached to size and pressed on, done. Even thou I did get a few months of trouble free service after my swap I would not recommend just installing the hour hand as I did in my previous post, I apologize for that, this would be a hassle free swap if it were not for the *slightly* loose hour hand.

 

[set2374]

I'm with big_raji. When this cheap movement quits, can we install a proper Asian ETA clone? Or gen ETA. The SOSF is otherwise a nice rep (except for the clasp, which is thin and cheap-feeling).

Katt may have first hand experience witb this, but makers like BP are using this movement as a replacement for the 21j and are calling it either the new Asian 25j high beat, the high beat 2813 and I think Angus is calling it a 2693. It is a cheap movement loosely based on the 2824, but it is not a clone. It is a bit more expensive than a 21j and possibly a better movement than the cheap chinese 21j's, but since it has the same crown height, accepts an ETA dial and ETA hands, it saves the maker the cost and time required to build a cheaper version of their mid and high end watches. As bonus, it also uses the same movement holder. So, you can upgrade your watch to a clone or ETA movement, which was not feasible with a 21j watch.

As a 21j substitute, the new movement is a winner. If unscrupulous makers are going to pass it off as a clone and charge clone prices, we will catch on and our TDs will have to change their QC measures to give us assurance that we get what we pay for. Moreover, we need to give this movement a universal name so our TDs can correctly identify it in their product listings without creating confusion--just as we did with the 21j/2813. I think we will sort this all out as we have done in the past.

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[templeton]

If unscrupulous makers aee.going to pass it off as a clone and charge clone prices, we will catch on and our TDs will have change their QC measures to give us assurance that wr get what we.pay for.

Correction: We HAVE caught on.

It seems like a lot of V2 SOSFs went out with this movement. This wasn't some fly-by-night maker, it was put out by the reputable H-factory. Who knows what else? One instance I could accept as a mistake. 3 or 4 individuals and counting in a five page thread from people in different parts of the world is too much to swallow as coincidence.

The only real question is whether dealers were involved (or at the very least complacent) or not. The dealers claim there is little markup in prices, so if they've been paying the factories for thousands of watches at clone pricing, and really been getting cheap high beat 21Js passed off to them, you'd think they'd be making a pretty big stink about it

 

[Luthier]

New Sub c using tianji yingge TY2130. Is it better?

There's no such a movement exist.
TY series names were given to Seagull movements by HK-based PTS Resources Ltd, for their own catalog. The movement you mentioned, is Seagull ST-2130, exact clone of ETA 2824-2.

 

[Cynikal.Mindset]

Correction: We HAVE caught on.

It seems like a lot of V2 SOSFs went out with this movement. This wasn't some fly-by-night maker, it was put out by the reputable H-factory. Who knows what else? One instance I could accept as a mistake. 3 or 4 individuals and counting in a five page thread from people in different parts of the world is too much to swallow as coincidence.

The only real question is whether dealers were involved (or at the very least complacent) or not. The dealers claim there is little markup in prices, so if they've been paying the factories for thousands of watches at clone pricing, and really been getting cheap high beat 21Js passed off to them, you'd think they'd be making a pretty big stink about it

dealers clearly know which is why the SOSF has come down $80 in price

 

[atrain289]

I just bought my Mom a Patek Philippe Nautilus from Ryan for her birthday and it had this movement, now I'm worried cause I sent it back for repairs because I thought it was not functioning properly, but now I'm sure it's the movement and I'll get the same watch back with this movement.

The quick date change did not work, then randomly, it started working after a day or two of wearing it. Then it started losing 10-30min in a matter of hours. The watch also felt terrible to wind, and was extremely difficult to turn, like it was grinding gears every turn I made. I knew right away something was wrong, it didn't not feel the like the typical 2836. Screwing the crown back down was also a nightmare because of the winding problem. It seemed like the gears had not been disengaged from winding, so when screwing the crown down it felt like I was still winding the watch, and it made screwing the crown down a pain in the a**.

I sent it back, as per their request, but now I'm sure I will get the same watch back, with the same problems. The problem is, this watch was not cheap, and I thought I was paying for the 2836 asian, not this asian movement, and I'm sure that's the whole Idea.

Idk what to do, if I should do anything...

Here is a picture from another thread I made praising how happy I was with the initial look and feel of the watch, but you can clearly see that their are no marking on the watch where the balance wheel is, where the 2836 would have some markings, it also looks the same to earlier pictures, maybe someone could advise.

 

[Toycarsmy]

There's no such a movement exist.
TY series names were given to Seagull movements by HK-based PTS Resources Ltd, for their own catalog. The movement you mentioned, is Seagull ST-2130, exact clone of ETA 2824-2.

Thanks Luthier, I did a picture search and confirmed it is Seagull ST-2130 is new Sub C.

That means when the movement give way, the replacement will be ETA2824 or maybe TC 2824 for me.

 

[Toycarsmy]

.

That looked like a Seagull ST-2130 to me with A decorated rotor.

 

[ShiroTenshi]

Is the dial hold on by screws or lever? Maybe a pic without the back would help better to id


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[atrain289]

I don't have the watch any more. When I explained the issues I was having with it, the crown in the quick date set position just spinning freely around and not actually changing the date, and then it losing time, 10 to 30 min a day, they told me to send it back so they could take a look at it, so I did.

I tried everything before sending it back, I was going to just deal with the quick date set not working, but when it starting losing a lot of time I figured it be better to send it back. I did give it a generous helping of winding before sending it back just to make sure that was not the issue, or an error on my part.

 

[Thomas_G.]

In upper right it is visible that there is the lever for the dial. No screw, and it looks just like Seagull which usually ist reliable and good. In this case not, as it seems
But this shoul be a quick exchange for a better functioning one.

The main reason for the newly designed movement is that the hands move the other way around, which fits Rolex watches best. Makes it more genuine. Plus a new instant date mechanism.

 

[atrain289]

Thanks Thomas

 

[ShiroTenshi]

I don't have the watch any more. When I explained the issues I was having with it, the crown in the quick date set position just spinning freely around and not actually changing the date, and then it losing time, 10 to 30 min a day, they told me to send it back so they could take a look at it, so I did.

I tried everything before sending it back, I was going to just deal with the quick date set not working, but when it starting losing a lot of time I figured it be better to send it back. I did give it a generous helping of winding before sending it back just to make sure that was not the issue, or an error on my part.

I have one of these PP, its on clone movement, yours looks like its a clone too.

 

[AllergyDoc]

My SOSF with this movement does not stay wound on my winder. I've tried all the winder settings but the watch always dies. Keeps accurate time, though.

 

[ShiroTenshi]

As a 21j substitute, the new movement is a winner. If unscrupulous makers are going to pass it off as a clone and charge clone prices, we will catch on and our TDs will have to change their QC measures to give us assurance that we get what we pay for. Moreover, we need to give this movement a universal name so our TDs can correctly identify it in their product listings without creating confusion--just as we did with the 21j/2813. I think we will sort this all out as we have done in the past.

Was reading back on this, and just have to disagree on this "new" movement being a winner over the 21J. I will say the 21J (mainly the DG 2813) movement are much more solid and reliable. $20 replacement cost and easily availability put it high above the problematic movement.