I can see with all of the above posts regarding the best Rolex Sub. that everyone is concentrated on the 116610 [ceramic version]. But then, it is agreed upon that the best Sub ever was [and is] the 16610 [non ceramic] version. The one made by TC. .......... Have you guys ever wondered why this is so. ...... Well, chasing perfection and getting close to it was already done by TC. He stuck it out with his 16610. For a good number of years. The [ceramic] 116610 was already out with lots of versions for a good number of years, yet he stuck it out with the 16610. And he got damn close to perfection. And so did a good number of members here who only worked on the 16610. They all knew that working on the 116610 was an exercise in despair. ........... Perhaps, maybe, we should shift our time and efforts into the 16610 instead of the newest and the latest and the greatest 116610 ! Then maybe, we can all get close to what the TC Sub was and start smiling once again. With the 16610, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And hope is still attainable. All you have to do is break free of this 'gotta have the latest and the greatest' model mindset. Tons of 16610 owners out there are smiling ear to ear. And have not looked back. ........... The holy grail is available. And every step is a step forward. Not the other way around........... Good luck to all.