Sec@12 longevity

[phoband]

Yup <---- waited 3 months for a watch from TTK. And that wasn't something you cried Harry carry. Oh, and i walked to school in the snow, up hill — BOTH WAYs

Sometimes it takes someone who pops in and sees a dramatic change QC pics and the consequences to get the impact slammed at you vs dripping slowly.

I was helping a newb who had a few issues with a purchase and he said "ha I got the watch from Andrew because people rave about him, but he is on the level of amazon.com"

After rolling my eyes, I calmly suggested that, amazon.com here, is an exceptional opportunity and he came back down to earth, but, I see sprinkles of that all over.

 

[Mendel272]

What I worry about is dropping 500$ on a watch that will die and be irreparable. If I get a sec@12 that dies 2 years from now, and I can send it to G who can fix it for 250$ and then I get another 3 years out of it, I'm happy. If I get it and it dies after 2 weeks and it cannot be fixed, then I'm pissed. I don't need it to go diving, I don't need it to be 100.000% the same as the gen. What I want is a watch that is 95%+ similar, and that will give me a good couple years of working like it's supposed to, not like the gen is supposed to. If it breaks, I want to know that someone can fix it and that I didn't just flush 500$ down the drain. When I ask about the reliability of the movement, I am asking as much about how long it is likely to last without service as how easy it is to repair. 500$ is 500$, and If I get a passable rep for more than a couple years, it's 500$ well spent. Anything less, and I should've saved the money and spent it on something swiss.

I have already ordered the watch. Answers posted here will help me decide whether to use it until it breaks, and then send it for service, or get it serviced and modded immediately.

If I am more likely to get 2 years out of it than 2 weeks, I'll use it until it breaks, and then get it fixed up and modded. If I'm more likely to get struck by lightning than get 2 years out of the watch, I'll get it serviced first.

 

[phoband]

What I worry about is dropping 500$ on a watch that will die and be irreparable. If I get a sec@12 that dies 2 years from now, and I can send it to G who can fix it for 250$ and then I get another 3 years out of it, I'm happy. If I get it and it dies after 2 weeks and it cannot be fixed, then I'm pissed. I don't need it to go diving, I don't need it to be 100.000% the same as the gen. What I want is a watch that is 95%+ similar, and that will give me a good couple years of working like it's supposed to, not like the gen is supposed to. If it breaks, I want to know that someone can fix it and that I didn't just flush 500$ down the drain. When I ask about the reliability of the movement, I am asking as much about how long it is likely to last without service as how easy it is to repair. 500$ is 500$, and If I get a passable rep for more than a couple years, it's 500$ well spent. Anything less, and I should've saved the money and spent it on something swiss.

I have already ordered the watch. Answers posted here will help me decide whether to use it until it breaks, and then send it for service, or get it serviced and modded immediately.

If I am more likely to get 2 years out of it than 2 weeks, I'll use it until it breaks, and then get it fixed up and modded. If I'm more likely to get struck by lightning than get 2 years out of the watch, I'll get it serviced first.

Politely - your asking to much. You want a 95% copy of a 20,000$ watch for 500$ and you want a guarantee about it's useful life. I mean putting it that way, do you see what everyone is asking for now? Should it work for the first 6 mo? Yes. Beyond that it's anybody's guess. But, since 99% of us are fine, it's a very reasonable risk. I mean, is it josh's fault customs seizes your watch? No. He takes risk to.

You can't expect to win, if you don't recognize the possibility of losing. Would it suck? Yes. But your getting a 20,000 watch for 500$. You want assurance ? Buy a movado, you want to stretch the possibility of what your supposed to have? Gotta take the risk.

 

[phoband]

FYI my gen movado quartz sport $100 watch was the only one to completely die on me, seller had a 2 yr warranty thankfully

 

[vpx]

The simplest solution I've come up with is to sell it once you've had enough of it (hopefully before it breaks) and get another one.

Seeing that Noobyfactory is making newer limited editions every year for the AP ROO you could easily just get a new watch every year from a little added over your initial investment, consider the loss the cost of you "renting" it for a year.

 

[phoband]

While many people do that, including me, I would be very upset with anyone on the boards who sold watches with intent to unload before they "believed" would drop in value. Especially as an insurance policy for movements. That is not cool. I fully expect all of my watches for sale to work as good as new unless therwise stated.

I used only keep pieces for 3-6 mo. My current collection due to finance is more 2 yrs

 

[Mendel272]

I'm fine with playing the odds. Of course I can't expect a guarantee on a rep, but if 99% of the membership has had these last more than 6 months, and I can get it fixed if it goes wrong, I'm ok with that. I have just seen so much about these movements having a definite expiration. I just need to know that that probably won't happen right way, and once it does, I can get it fixed for less than it costs to replace it.

 

[phoband]

I'm fine with playing the odds. Of course I can't expect a guarantee on a rep, but if 99% of the membership has had these last more than 6 months, and I can get it fixed if it goes wrong, I'm ok with that. I have just seen so much about these movements having a definite expiration. I just need to know that that probably won't happen right way, and once it does, I can get it fixed for less than it costs to replace it.

Q

Your still asking for a guarantee. Before it was when you get the watch when it is serviced, now you want to know it can be fixed. My point is, that is the risk. There are no guarantees as the saying goes anyone telling you different is selling you something.

 

[Mendel272]

Not looking for guarantees, looking for a feel of the odds. Obviously catastrophic failure rates in reps will exceed gens. I just want to know, roughly, what those rates are

Ie will
10% fail beyond repair within 1 month
50% fail beyond repair within 1 year
95% fail beyond repair within 3 years
More? Less (hopefully)?
Obviously these statistics don't exist with any precision. But roughly, how does it seem to people who have had many reps?

I would be very happy with a rep if its numbers looked like this:
5% fail in the first 90 days
33% in the first year
50% in the first 2 years
66% in the first 5 years
etc
With ~85% of failures being fixable for 33-50% of the purchase price of the watch or less. Is this a reasonable expectation?

 

[phoband]

Good, now we are to the meat. Reality is no one can give you reasonably good measure of odds. Cause of the culltural custom of high volume and low quality control in china, there is an equal percentage that any 1 rep will be screwed up. Beyond that, its my experience that the sec at 12 is pretty reliable. I forgot the name, but the person said they aren't reliable has one that hasn't failed. Im not attacking you by the way. I believe you read about issues. I haven't, could be I missed them. I can only give my observance. It's worth some searching and especially looking for guys that break down movements and their comments, I'd be interested tovsee if their is a problem - I think mike on RWG has like 20 AP 's

The best advice I can give is, it's a hobbie, there are built in risks, there never has been a better time to get a rep, I doubt there will be any realistic advances in the system to assure you get a good watch. If you send money to china, be okay about losing it. Everything beyond actually getting a watch mailed to you, is gravy. IMHO it's worth it

 

[revman]

I've had my Safari for a year and the watch is stilll working fine. I wear on the weekends and usually have about 40 hours of reserve time when left unworn. Mine is second generation Safari with the cream colour dial.

 

[HardTalk]

Ok, I gotta set some things straight. Unless ziggy or some other pro watchmaker chimes in and says I'm wrong, I have seen this a lot during my current return. So, here is my soapbox, and:

1 this thread is nowhere near loony. Every post has been on point. Irrelevant but on point.
2. I have been here since early 2005.
3. I have had at least 70 reps go through my hands.
4. I have had 4 franken, custom projects
5. Had watches serviced, relumed AR - bought straps from 10 diff dealers from 20$ to 230$

I've seen it all. From before we had an a7750. The only chrono was a lemania (not really but called) manual wind. When AR wasn't really AR and was just a coating on the dial that made reflections look purple.

The sec at 12 is a very reliable movement. Most reps do not need to be serviced to get a good life out of them.

You new guys - especially in the last year have skewed vision of reality. Eddie Lee used to say, waterproof? Maybe, you can run to your car in a light rain and a rep is a rep.

These watches are not gen, they are not tanks, not ment for diving or flying. It's a decent watch with some high end features. Due to "super reps" dealers now need to advertise reps as 1:1
they cant respond - hey, it's just a rep, don't treat it like a gen. While I'm on it. Don't buy a 100$ watch and put 700$ in mods. I don't piss on sales threads, cause there is no fraud, but it's entirely uneseccary and adds no actual value to the watch, just perception.

Ok back to movements, unreliable is the first generation of seconds at 12 daytonas, first generation portugese, no seconds pams

When a movement is unreliable there are mass posts, lots of pissed off buyers cursing dealers. And almost no one buying and especially no one buying second hand.

Although dealers guarantee against customs or defect on delivery reality is, there are no guarantees. And, we as the board are not here to puff up dealers answer for their faults or make their screwed customers satisfied. They make a shitload off this board. We have 2 purposes. 1 enjoy the community, discuss watches and learn from each other.

2. Be organized so overall we have the purchasing power to keep dealers honest. As a courtesy we advise newbs. It's not a right, it's a courtesy.

Now, as to movements
1 a7750 - great mov, running the chrono is fine doesn't hurt it at all.
2. Reliability - the watches your buying are built in basements and random places by people that have no experience. Shit happens. Any 1 watch could fail. Don't send $$ to china unless your prepared to lose it. I'm serious. 98% of the time everything will be fine. But, these are not built by skilled workers, and this is a criminal enterprise. If you were buying spoiled milk and selling it as real (my ex wife's cousin) you wouldn't wine about the milk carton is not crisp writing under a 10x magnification.

Unless you see a long post from a trusted watchmaker that a movement is crap don't buy or a flood of horror stories then it's find. They sell thousands of these things. believe me, there would be pissed people lining up with dead 600 watches.

Will it last longer if you service? Most likely yes. Will you get 3 yrs out of it with moderate wear time? I'd give that a 95%.

Please go to RWG.cc and check my signature, I have a series of videos documenting chinese watchmaking and Swiss watchmaking.

I need to create a post about this stuff.

Conclusion. This hobby is a risk. You could lose $$ you could go to jail. Or like 99.99999 % of us you could get awesome watches and enjoy them for a period of time that far exceeds the value paid.

This.