Rusty 14060 Dial Repair attempt

[HulkyGalore]

I got this old battered dial recently, and thought it would be good for learning about dial restoration and getting some reluming experience. It is a gen 14060 dial with water damage.

At first I thought it was a tritium dial due to the flat S (with T<25 hidden under rust), but it is just rust covered luminova and actually a swiss made dial, maybe a service replacement.

There is a patch in the middle which had been wiped before I got it. This encouraged me to take the risk that the main markings would stay intact.

Here it is:

 

[Pinion Minion]

Good luck- keep sending updates!

 

[Caboose]

I'm guessing there is going to be some sort of mild solvent you can soak this in to do a lot of work but not dissolve the indice glue. Stay far away from IPA or acetone!

 

[HulkyGalore]

I'm guessing there is going to be some sort of mild solvent you can soak this in to do a lot of work but not dissolve the indice glue. Stay far away from IPA or acetone!

I am not sure what the clear coat is, and know that acetone is a probably a bad idea! I haven't got an ultrasonic cleaner in case that might have helped, so got to work with some wood and cotton, gently brushing. I wiped in one direction then used a new bit, in case the rust particles act like sandpaper. If one brush of the main logo damaged it, that would mean game over!

 

[Caboose]

I am not sure what the clear coat is, and know that acetone is a probably a bad idea! I haven't got an ultrasonic cleaner in case that might have helped, so got to work with some wood and cotton, gently brushing. I wiped in one direction then used a new bit, in case the rust particles act like sandpaper. If one brush of the main logo damaged it, that would mean game over!

I would not recommend brushing it at all. You will scratch it up a bit. Cotton will also get stuck in those indices. The ultrasonic with just water is the first thing I would try. The second is an ultrasonic with soap. Ultrasonics are very affordable, and you can use for bracelets are well. Highly recommended.

 

[dpd3672]

I have this saved with some other You Tube videos, it might be of some help.

These are some others worth checking out:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=restore+rusty+dial

Looks to me like you need to rinse of the rust "wash" from the dial, which shouldn't be too difficult if done carefully. I'd start with a little water and dish soap and very lightly "polish" it off, follow up with some scratch and haze remover like you'd use on a show car.

For the indices, I believe they're real gold, so they shouldn't rust themselves, but probably would benefit from being removed, cleaned, and relumed from scratch.

There shouldn't be anything there that actually rusted, since it's a brass dial with gold indices...you just need to remove the haze that was deposited on the dial from when water entered the movement.

 

[HulkyGalore]

Thanks all, good tips, I will get reading, updates later!

 

[dpd3672]

FWIW, most of the videos I've seen involve some type of mild solvent (probably water) and VERY gentle agitation with a paint brush. Anything more aggressive than that is likely to remove the writing from the dial.
You'll see what "more aggressive" looks like when I post my next build...a Franken

__R KI__
__STER PERPETUAL


_RECISIC_

Lol​

 

[HulkyGalore]

Thanks for the video from Kalle Slaap, he's very interesting to listen to with some great tips. I also found another video about dial restoration. One option for the ultimate repair would have been to remove all the markers, clean it up, repaint if necessary then clear coat it a few times before polishing back.

A few reasons I won't be going that far. One is that it is a lot of work still with a risk of going trough the text if care isn't taken. Another is that there is bubbling of the paint on this dial, which can be considered unsightly or patina -like in its appearance depending on how it cleans up. It can only be seen from certain angles. But too much interference or polishing may delaminate it and once that starts it would be wrecked.

This video is now giving me ideas like what colour to relume etc. Although that is for later!

 

[HulkyGalore]

FWIW, most of the videos I've seen involve some type of mild solvent (probably water) and VERY gentle agitation with a paint brush. Anything more aggressive than that is likely to remove the writing from the dial.
You'll see what "more aggressive" looks like when I post my next build...a Franken

__R KI__
__STER PERPETUAL


_RECISIC_

Lol​

Looking forward to seeing this, any sneak previews to show? Meantime, the gentle brushing approach is getting some of the rust off, and it appears that the main text is intact - so far...!

 

[Caboose]

Thanks for the video from Kalle Slaap, he's very interesting to listen to with some great tips. I also found another video about dial restoration. One option for the ultimate repair would have been to remove all the markers, clean it up, repaint if necessary then clear coat it a few times before polishing back.

A few reasons I won't be going that far. One is that it is a lot of work still with a risk of going trough the text if care isn't taken. Another is that there is bubbling of the paint on this dial, which can be considered unsightly or patina -like in its appearance depending on how it cleans up. It can only be seen from certain angles. But too much interference or polishing may delaminate it and once that starts it would be wrecked.

This video is now giving me ideas like what colour to relume etc. Although that is for later!

You may want to relume to match whatever hands you end up with!

 

[HulkyGalore]

You may want to relume to match whatever hands you end up with!

Yes good point - the case I have in mind currently houses a 2824 with some decent hands but I may relume some others with the same mix I end up with.
Any tips for reluming tips are welcome later, as I haven't done it before so might practise on a cheap dial first. I might choose a different movement but it depends on what fits, I haven't test fitted this dial in the case yet because the 2824 keyless works is temperamental and I don't want to mess with it more than I need to so will do that later.

 

[Karbon74]

I would just ultrasonic it several times and let it as is, with no further treatment

If you pair it with a properly distressed bezel insert and a tastefully aged case, you will end up witj a watch with a lot of charm

 

[Karbon74]

Using An Ultrasonic Cleaner To Remove Rust on Tools

Can ultrasonic cleaners remove rust from tools? Yes. Learn how you can fight the results of oxidation on iron and alloys that contain iron.

crest-ultrasonics.com

 

[dpd3672]

Using An Ultrasonic Cleaner To Remove Rust on Tools

Can ultrasonic cleaners remove rust from tools? Yes. Learn how you can fight the results of oxidation on iron and alloys that contain iron.

crest-ultrasonics.com

Wow, never considered this. Now I have a use for my Ultrasonic cleaner between watch projects, lol.

 

[KJ2020]

Some threads you might find useful.

Washing Dials, Hands and Crystals with dish soap

Using the methods in the thread above, I have successfully eliminated rust on a rep dial, and I have washed a gen dial multiple times after using some auto polish on it to remove scratches.

External keyless reset

 

[HulkyGalore]

KJ Great info on keyless reset- I had seen that but forgot, so must test that out sometime soon.

I should also have followed your example of taking lots of pictures when doing stuff. I got "in the zone" and didn't take as many as I should have. That is one of the things I like about this hobby, you can get carried away and the time flies. Also you learn new things and there seems to be no limit to how much there is to learn!

Anyway- here is a progress update. Using water, light brushing scraping with shaped wood, etc. The lume was brittle but took some work to get out.

Good news - the main logos and surface paint are good (despite being bubbled).
Not so good news - around the edges particularly the bottom right areas there was seriously hard caked material. I couldn't get it off and didn't try any harder for fear of damage to the paint. I will likely buy an ultrasonic cleaner at some point to try.

Some of the edge markers were coming off but they may be repainted. I haven't messed with the swiss made logo any more than necessary as that edge may have been soaked in the rust pool (maybe the watch was left at an angle whilst wet, hence that bottom and corner side being worse?)

Here are a few pictures. I angled the last one to show the surface finish on the main dial.

 

[Karbon74]

KJ Great info on keyless reset- I had seen that but forgot, so must test that out sometime soon.

I should also have followed your example of taking lots of pictures when doing stuff. I got "in the zone" and didn't take as many as I should have. That is one of the things I like about this hobby, you can get carried away and the time flies. Also you learn new things and there seems to be no limit to how much there is to learn!

Anyway- here is a progress update. Using water, light brushing scraping with shaped wood, etc. The lume was brittle but took some work to get out.

Good news - the main logos and surface paint are good (despite being bubbled).
Not so good news - around the edges particularly the bottom right areas there was seriously hard caked material. I couldn't get it off and didn't try any harder for fear of damage to the paint. I will likely buy an ultrasonic cleaner at some point to try.

Some of the edge markers were coming off but they may be repainted. I haven't messed with the swiss made logo any more than necessary as that edge may have been soaked in the rust pool (maybe the watch was left at an angle whilst wet, hence that bottom and corner side being worse?)

Here are a few pictures. I angled the last one to show the surface finish on the main dial.

Is the third pic the end result ?
If yes, this is spectacular work

 

[HulkyGalore]

Is the third pic the end result ?
If yes, this is spectacular work

Yes, and thankyou. Once I got passed the main logos I was encouraged and enjoyed the few hours of cleaning. Quite relaxing! I did like the colour of the rusty lume but it was too much for this type of dial, although I might go for something slightly off-white later, will see.

I also agree with your previous comments about finding a case which suits this dial. I already have such a build (need to get a picture of it) using a rafflesdial and have this horrible feeling that this dial will be too small for it. I will test this dial in some other cases soon before taking out the movement from the one I want to put it in and checking that.

 

[Karbon74]

Yes, and thankyou. Once I got passed the main logos I was encouraged and enjoyed the few hours of cleaning. Quite relaxing! I did like the colour of the rusty lume but it was too much for this type of dial, although I might go for something slightly off-white later, will see.

I also agree with your previous comments about finding a case which suits this dial. I already have such a build (need to get a picture of it) using a rafflesdial and have this horrible feeling that this dial will be too small for it. I will test this dial in some other cases soon before taking out the movement from the one I want to put it in and checking that.

This case should work

Stainless Steel Watch Case For Vintage SUB 16610, Fit to 3135 Watch Movement, Watch Parts

m.alibaba.com

@trash3939 has made several 14060 builds using it

You need to buy two but you should be able to resell one easily.