RM 11-03 Mclaren ABD/ZF a story to follow ...

[Zapparulz]

Hi,

Yes, I am junior member... but spending last weeks reading a lot of posts & reviews on the RWI forum about trusted dealers, opnions/reviews with thanks to @Angus, _DC_ and so on ...

As an architect I love the design of watches and cars. Besides a great taste for a chunky Panerai or Jeager Lecoutre Polaris or Memovox I have set my mind on a Richard Mille

I have a great heart for the vision and work of Richard Mille and the RM 11-03 Mclaren is glueing all my passion into ONE beautiful timepiece ....and I decided to give a go trying to buy one ...

Based on tips on RWI, I checked trusted dealers and Instagram .... and got in touch with ABD (all black department 2020). They advertise having better prices then the usual replica resellers on the web
promising !

Good contact, swift answers ... first conclusion from ABD.:
- no good RM 11-03 available : bad bezel, no carbon, but cheap plastic instead
- the offer a regular RM 11-03 instead with carbon or steel/gold bezel

Pricetag ABD :

• 2200 usd for carbon
• 1600 usd for steel/gold version ...

Maybe my mistake but this sounds Hugh for a rep with Chinese movement ?
Compared with L Puretime/intime/ etc ... price tag ca 630 usd this is big difference..

But still building trust (also on my side with this price tag) because ABD states better quality, modification ....

Now waiting for ABD to convince me on the quality they can deliver by QC pictures ... etc...

I keep you all posted....how this story develops ....

But love to hear all your advice ...

Thx Zappa

ps : anybody familiar with dreamstreetwatches.max or rm_club on instagram ...

my aim in pict =

 

[_DC_]

Word to the wise, don’t tag me in a post about ABD, it is not my favourite topic!!

You May have read my posts but you clearly haven’t paid attention to them, lol, you’re about to spend circa $2,000 on a slightly improved $600 rep... can you not see the problem with this?! Why are you still pursuing this?!?

DC

 

[Kastro26]

Hi,

Yes, I am junior member... but spending last weeks reading a lot of posts & reviews on the RWI forum about trusted dealers, opnions/reviews with thanks to @Angus, _DC_ and so on ...

As an architect I love the design of watches and cars. Besides a great taste for a chunky Panerai or Jeager Lecoutre Polaris or Memovox I have set my mind on a Richard Mille

I have a great heart for the vision and work of Richard Mille and the RM 11-03 Mclaren is glueing all my passion into ONE beautiful timepiece ....and I decided to give a go trying to buy one ...

Based on tips on RWI, I checked trusted dealers and Instagram .... and got in touch with ABD (all black department 2020). They advertise having better prices then the usual replica resellers on the web
promising !

Good contact, swift answers ... first conclusion from ABD.:
- no good RM 11-03 available : bad bezel, no carbon, but cheap plastic instead
- the offer a regular RM 11-03 instead with carbon or steel/gold bezel

Pricetag ABD :

• 2200 usd for carbon
• 1600 usd for steel/gold version ...

Maybe my mistake but this sounds Hugh for a rep with Chinese movement ?
Compared with L Puretime/intime/ etc ... price tag ca 630 usd this is big difference..

But still building trust (also on my side with this price tag) because ABD states better quality, modification ....

Now waiting for ABD to convince me on the quality they can deliver by QC pictures ... etc...

I keep you all posted....how this story develops ....

But love to hear all your advice ...

Thx Zappa

ps : anybody familiar with dreamstreetwatches.max or rm_club on instagram ...

my aim in pict =

Based on experience ABD has by far the best mods for RM, I know a few members stating others can do the same.. But i havent seen any RMs done by other modders that are of the same quality of ABDs. As far as i know they make their own carbon case. No more modded bezels of factories.

Me personally ill be waiting for a ZF RM11-03. As for now, there is NO to gen dimensions for the 11-03(correct me if im wrong, havent been super updated on this). But god knows how long it will be till it comes out.. Its alr been a couple years...

ABD's RM 11 line is really really good though, but it just irks me that i notice the off dimensions sometimes. Its deffo not a blatant tell tho. Especially after the recent updates they have done regarding the dimensions. Its just a stupid OCD of mine. Then again my RM 35-02 was before the current updated to gen specs and i still find it a beauty so meh.


Looking forward to see your pics. Cheers~


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[Zapparulz]

No offense ment

I will keep the "wise" in mind

just learning and trying to find my way

as I said, I read a lot ... some good, some bad stuff about abd, kf, zvf, ... and building a path form here ...

thanks for clarifying again !

zappa

 

[Zapparulz]

Based on experience ABD has by far the best mods for RM, I know a few members stating others can do the same.. But i havent seen any RMs done by other modders that are of the same quality of ABDs. As far as i know they make their own carbon case. No more modded bezels of factories.

Me personally ill be waiting for a ZF RM11-03. As for now, there is NO to gen dimensions for the 11-03(correct me if im wrong, havent been super updated on this). But god knows how long it will be till it comes out.. Its alr been a couple years...

ABD's RM 11 line is really really good though, but it just irks me that i notice the off dimensions sometimes. Its deffo not a blatant tell tho. Especially after the recent updates they have done regarding the dimensions. Its just a stupid OCD of mine. Then again my RM 35-02 was before the current updated to gen specs and i still find it a beauty so meh.


Looking forward to see your pics. Cheers~


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Kastro
thx for the reply
Did you go for a regular RM 11-03 or the Mclaren one ?
Which TD did you go to ..
thx

Zappa

 

[Kastro26]

Word to the wise, don’t tag me in a post about ABD, it is not my favourite topic!!

You May have read my posts but you clearly haven’t paid attention to them, lol, you’re about to spend circa $2,000 on a slightly improved $600 rep... can you not see the problem with this?! Why are you still pursuing this?!?

DC

Sorry to say this but, till i see other modders doing ABD quality work for "slightly" improved RMs, which comparing the ZF and their custom carbon case.. Calling it a slightly improved rep is in my opinion, delusional and outright denial.

Anyways ive seen members posting that ZF bezel is able to be modded, other modders can do the same for a better price etcetc but till today i havent seen a modded ZF bezel nor any other modders doing ABD quality RMs. For any price as a matter of fact.

To address some members worried about ABD being shady or unethical, the issue of pricing that was brought up in the past was a misunderstanding that occured when ABD was called out due to a difference in price quoted.

How ever it was stated by the members whom were quoted of said price, that they were both quoted months apart. Where updates were already done hence price increase.

Despite that, there was still a mini witch hunt that went on against ABD. Which is one of the reasons i stop surfing here as often.


Personally realized that blatant biases occured here and in my opinion one of the reasons why the RM rep game has never really progressed as much.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers


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[Kastro26]

Hi Kastro
thx for the reply
Did you go for a regular RM 11-03 or the Mclaren one ?
Which TD did you go to ..
thx

Zappa

I havent gone for an RM11-03 yet. Im waiting for a ZF RM11-03 or till abd releases to gen dimensions of the RM11 line. Personally im looking towards a titanium case one.

My preferred TD has been trustytime so far. Pleasant dealinga with Andrew from TT.

Cheers.


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[_DC_]

Sorry to say this but, till i see other modders doing ABD quality work for "slightly" improved RMs, which comparing the ZF and their custom carbon case.. Calling it a slightly improved rep is in my opinion, delusional and outright denial.

Anyways ive seen members posting that ZF bezel is able to be modded, other modders can do the same for a better price etcetc but till today i havent seen a modded ZF bezel nor any other modders doing ABD quality RMs. For any price as a matter of fact.

To address some members worried about ABD being shady or unethical, the issue of pricing that was brought up in the past was a misunderstanding that occured when ABD was called out due to a difference in price quoted.

How ever it was stated by the members whom were quoted of said price, that they were both quoted months apart. Where updates were already done hence price increase.

Despite that, there was still a mini witch hunt that went on against ABD. Which is one of the reasons i stop surfing here as often.


Personally realized that blatant biases occured here and in my opinion one of the reasons why the RM rep game has never really progressed as much.

Just my 2 cents. Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I take your points on board, my only issue with ABD (apart from the guy being an arse to me personally) is their pricing is ridiculous. But I guess that is all relative and if people will pay it then is it really ridiculous? Market dictates price I guess, but I worry about the president this type of pricing sets for the future of what is already a really expensive hobby! Before you know it we’re paying several thousand pounds for cosmetic rather than technical advancement, that’s not the right direction in my opinion.

As for the progression of the RM rep game, this has nothing to do with ABD, they are modders (for now at least) so not responsible for what happens at the factories in any way.

DC

 

[Kastro26]

I take your points on board, my only issue with ABD (apart from the guy being an arse to me personally) is their pricing is ridiculous. But I guess that is all relative and if people will pay it then is it really ridiculous? Market dictates price I guess, but I worry about the president this type of pricing sets for the future of what is already a really expensive hobby! Before you know it we’re paying several thousand pounds for cosmetic rather than technical advancement, that’s not the right direction in my opinion.

As for the progression of the RM rep game, this has nothing to do with ABD, they are modders (for now at least) so not responsible for what happens at the factories in any way.

DC

What i meant by progression of RM rep game is where by i strongly believe that if we dont have a platform to share works of better quality be it in aethetics or technical, without fear of being reprimanded (provided source aint an outright scammer).

the factories will always have the upperhand in what they are willing to produce as it will be deemed as "oh they will buy because there isnt any better out there". If a modding group can make such amazing looking RMs, i dont see why factories cant do the same. Unless of course price to produce better quality works and profit margin is an issue.

By all means if any factory can make RMs the same quality as ABD's and charge a better price, by all means ill gladly let them take all my money.


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[jm_brc_7057]

What i meant by progression of RM rep game is where by i strongly believe that if we dont have a platform to share works of better quality be it in aethetics or technical, without fear of being reprimanded (provided source aint an outright scammer).

the factories will always have the upperhand in what they are willing to produce as it will be deemed as "oh they will buy because there isnt any better out there". If a modding group can make such amazing looking RMs, i dont see why factories cant do the same. Unless of course price to produce better quality works and profit margin is an issue.

By all means if any factory can make RMs the same quality as ABD's and charge a better price, by all means ill gladly let them take all my money.


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No offense. But i have difficulty believing that ABD "make" cases and bezels. I haven't seen proof. I wonder If they make their own carbon bezels and cases, why they can't make it for the ZF or some of the other factories, but only for the Z factory rep. Also the side profile of their "full carbon" reps, can hardly be carbon. Looks like plastic. Is the ABD "modded" bezel really that much different than the latest factory release?

I also haven't seen a proper comparison review between the basic Z factory rep and the so-called "modded ABD". A handful of members heavily vouch for ABD. Would be nicer to read that, instead of the frequent vouching for a non-TD. I'm not accusing anyone for laziness, but maybe your effort would be canalized better if we saw something that could clarify it properly.

Btw i've seen a posts that around 2 months after ABD was selling a "modded" version, later the factory releases what looks like the same watch (JBF RM 53-01). If they are modding or just selling the versions before the factory's official release at a higher price, is unclear to me to be honest
Also unclear if their big-money velcro straps are the same as the cheapies sold on DHGate.

 

[philwongnz]

One issue with the rep RM11 is the movement, the current offering is an A7750, the subdials are in the wrong position. Another issue is the date wheel being sunken which to a lot of memebers is a no no. For me RM watches is an acquired taste, I didn't like them before but after trying a gen one I was amazed with its quality and feel on the wrist (Iam mainly a vintage Rolex and Panerai guy). The USP of RM is its engineering (function over form in my opinion), the issue with RM reps are their function will not really going to be replicated as it will be almost impossible for the rep makers to spend that much money to fully clone RM movements. RM mainly does skeleton watches, in car terms is like driving a Ferrari Enzo kit car with a fake plastic molding covering a VW golf engine. Your line of work requires a lot of attention to details, RMs reps will simply annoys you over time as you will gradually see the rep's flaws where you simply can't unsee them. Is like looking at a building where you can see the size of the windows is disproportionate to the walls. Or watching a Wes Anderson movie where the shot wasn't exactly centered. My advice is to browse around the form and I think APs and the 3K Aquanaut may interest you.

On a side note, since you are an architect - wouldn't brands like Junghan and Nomos appeal to you since Bauhaus plays a bit part in modern architecture?

BTW great topic here and welcome!

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[Kastro26]

No offense. But i have difficulty believing that ABD "make" cases and bezels. Can you prove it? If they make their own carbon bezels and cases, why can't they make it for the ZF or some of the other factories, why can it only be for a Z factory rep? Also the side profile of their "full carbon" reps, are anything but carbon! Looks like cheap plastic.

I also haven't seen a proper comparison review between the basic Z factory rep and the so-called "modded ABD". You lot (a handful of members) heavily vouch for ABD in every thread. Instead of vouching for a non-TD, why not put some proper effort into giving some evidence?

Btw i've seen a posts that around 2 months after ABD was selling a "modded" version, later the factory releases what looks like the same watch. If they are modding or not, is unclear to me to be honest.

Ive seen that post too. But till date where is that v2 Z factory RM35-02? I dont see it anywhere but dhgate and that in it self is sketchy as it is. To be frank if Z factory did release a v2 that looks better than the current ZF nonsense we have currently, this whole forum would be raving about it.

As for the JBF RM 53-01 i remember seeing it on their wechat that they did have a modded version of the updated JBF with the main spring exposed compared to the factory one without it being exposed. as per the mod the thread starter claimed he paid most for was the mod to expose the main spring. As seen on TrustyTime, the JBF RM53-01 v2(crown is rubber) does not have its main spring exposed.
https://trustytime.shop/index.php?ma...ducts_id=21146
Here are the pics of the v2 modded by ABD. You are welcome to see the difference between the stock from TT and modded by ABD.

Its only been stated that ZF bezel is not moddable and id say add them on wechat and see their moments or link their IG but its not allowed to do that, they do show.
They do make custom carbon case for the RM11 line as well with KV factory as their base.

This is a video of their updated RM35-02 As of 22/04/2020

If the video is removed then it just further proves my point that any sort if information sharing that skews in the opposite favor is not allowed here.

Disclaimer: i am by no means promoting their work. But merely proving my point that if ANY factory can make RM reps as good as ABD's ill gladly give them my money. Even the so called V2 Z factory that was claimed ABD resold never resurfaced again after many months. The video below features what ABD claims to be their own make, of a 35-02 with gen scans. It isnt based off any factory.



https://youtu.be/DzykhAJPJU8

Edit: Reuploaded the video now hopefully its in HD . if nt i cant find a way to save and upload it to YT in HD .

 

[jm_brc_7057]

Ive seen that post to. But till date where is that v2 Z factory RM35-02? I dont see it anywhere but dhgate and that in it self is sketchy as it is. To be frank if Z factory did release a v2 that looks better than the current ZF nonsense we have currently, this whole forum would be raving about it.

Its only been stated that ZF bezel is not moddable and id say add them on wechat and see their moments or link their IG but its not allowed to do that, they do show.

This is a video of their updated RM35-02 As of 22/04/2020

If the video is removed then it just further proves my point that ant sort if information sharing that skews in the opposite favor is not allowed here.

Disclaimer: i am by no means promoting their work. But merely proving my point that if ANY factory can make RM reps as good as ABD's ill gladly give them my money. Even the so called V2 Z factory that was claimed ABD resold never resurfaced again after many months. The video below features what ABD claims to be their own make, of a 35-02 with gen scans. It isnt based off any factory.



*Reuploading video due to not being in HD* will edit with link once done..

I really hope the mods let this video be, as it backs my statements. They release a low-quality 9 seconds video of their own production, which they put in the effort of scanning a gen, making the carbon parts, movement among others? I find it hard to believe. Either their marketing is a big fail or they didn't make this watch like that.

 

[Kastro26]

I really hope the mods let this video be, as it backs my statements. They release a low-quality 9 seconds video of their own production, which they put in the effort of scanning a gen, making the carbon parts, movement among others? I find it hard to believe. Either their marketing is a big fail or they didn't make this watch like that.

If all u have to prove ur point is my in ability to save a video in HD format via their wechat moments and posting it on YOUTUBE for you guys to see then. im sorry but ur argument is moot.

The video uploaded is by me taken off their wechat. you trying to point the quality of of a video thats uploaded by a third party (me) who has no copy of the actual video, shows blatant biases.. looks like if i take anything off their we chat to show you anything u will probably have something to say about it..

 

[Kastro26]

Since im at it, why not here are a couple photos i could grab from their wechat..i was sent these as i was looking for an upgrade to my current rm35-02.. DISCLAIMER: not promoting their product. just making my point and sharing whats out there in terms of rep quality regarding RMs currently.

 

[Kastro26]

Please delete this post. miss clicked while trying to upload pics

 

[Golden]

Since im at it, why not here are a couple photos i could grab from their wechat..i was sent these as i was looking for an upgrade to my current rm35-02.. DISCLAIMER: not promoting their product. just making my point and sharing whats out there in terms of rep quality regarding RMs currently.

Looks like they use the [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]NH05A movement from the Z+F Factory models instead of the 8215 from Z Maker now? Not sure if they're modding the Z+F bezel though.[/FONT]

 

[Kastro26]

Looks like they use the NH05A movement from the Z+F Factory models instead of the 8215 from Z Maker now? Not sure if they're modding the Z+F bezel though.

I checked with ABD and it is the same NH05A movement. According to them, its the only movement available to achieve gen spec thickness. as far as ive been told, this isnt a modded bezel or case but a complete custom bezel and case that is full carbon.

 

[W47chl0v3r]

I think Richard Mille are ugly, but that's just my opinion. sounds like they overcharge for something cosmetic, and other factories make a product with cost in mind and could make to more expensive but then again there's a cost to that too.

 

[jm_brc_7057]

As for the JBF RM 53-01 i remember seeing it on their wechat that they did have a modded version of the updated JBF with the main spring exposed compared to the factory one without it being exposed. as per the mod the thread starter claimed he paid most for was the mod to expose the main spring. As seen on TrustyTime, the JBF RM53-01 v2(crown is rubber) does not have its main spring exposed.
https://trustytime.shop/index.php?ma...ducts_id=21146
Here are the pics of the v2 modded by ABD. You are welcome to see the difference between the stock from TT and modded by ABD.

[.

Hmm. I can’t see that the mainspring is more exposed on this ABD version you posted compared to the the Trustytime pictures. The crown looks the same on both.

The bezel shines more in the ABD pictures. But that can also be the different lighting conditions the pictures were taken in.

If one of you guys did a review of your own ABD “modded” watches. And detailed comparison to the base version of your watch (or later releases of the base version) it would be more convincing.