Last question, did you age the hands, or is it the just the photo angle and perfect lume that's tricking my eyes? I was 50/50 with hour hand, minute and seconds hands totally fooled me into thinking they were genuine. Damn, they look great in that picture! Beautiful build man.
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Revisiting my Franken 16800 “Zorro”
- Thread starter turbo911
- Start date
- 21/12/09
- 106
- 284
- 63
Again with a great eye! I use a Bergeon Dial pen that has the little leather pad on them and I just sort of wipe the hands down to knock off a tiny bit of shine, then re lume. But that’s it.
- 14/10/19
- 2,906
- 13,220
- 113
I purchased this dial on eBay.nice!!
flat "S"? is it a 16800 or early 16610 dial?
It was 320 euros as 16610-16800Zifferblatt.
The case is JF16610 with lug holes.
It is not exact but I like it.
Case part II
So lets continue with the case of a 16800/0.
Its not easy to find a case with the correct features for a 16800/0 project.
I am quite happy with my MBW case, it has the right look with one exception, the rehaut which is a bit too deep since its originally a case made for 16610. And that bugs me a bit.
Since the Gen 16800/0 is equipped with a 3035 caliber which is taller than its successor 3135 (a little bit thicker above the stem), the 16800 case had a shallower (and also a very perpendicular) rehaut and for a long time I was not aware that it was exactly that what makes me immediately think that a 16800 had the correct signature look.
One could now think to just file down the rehaut on a 16610 case but that will not solve the problem. Then it will look shallower but only because the rehaut is shorter from the top down and also that would result in a visually larger distance from crystal top edge to rehaut top shoulder. And you would need to file down quite a bit which would make it look off.
The real solution would be to shave the rehaut on the inner side of the case which you can only do with a lathe and a lot of knowledge. But then again, a clone 3135 will probably not fit because the stem alignment will be off and could also causing seconds hand clearance issues.
BTW flashback: some may remember its funny how everyone in this rep hobby was desperately looking for a case with deep rehaut 20 years ago (OMG I am old) when most Sub reps had terribly wokky and shallow rehauts, “which case has a deep rehaut” was the second most asked question besides “who has the best sub” ;-) And now I am looking for a shallow rehaut 
Anyway, therefore I investigated different case options. This is what I came up with (no guarantee that all is correct):
-Silian/ARF/RAF case: gen dial fits, gen spec bezel assembly. but needs drilling lugholes and the rehaut is still too deep for a 16800. Lug length is also different than 16800, too short. So imho no advantage compared to my MBW case.
-BP case: Has a shallower rehaut although its a 16610 case. Gen like bezel assembly. Needs removing of the rehaut engravings which unfortunately impacts the thickness of the rehaut “shoulder” seen from top because material is removed. Tested it, was not thrilled. Also need drilling lugholes. But the killer: the dial opening is too big, gen dial falls through at least the 16800/0 dials, even with the VR3135 BP case. So no option for me.
-TC case: Gen dial fits, great case, gen spec bezel assembly. But also rehaut a bit too deep since it’s a 16610 case and no way I will drill lugholes in my 16610 TC ;-) Alternative would be an early TC case with lugholes which features a shallower but still a bit to deep rehaut compared to Gen, somewhere between a gen 16800 and 16610 rehaut depth. But hard to get and expensive and still for that not optimal.
-JF V1 or V2 case: 16610 case but with shallower rehaut. v1 needs shaving off the rehaut engraving.
Incorrect for 16610 but close to the 16800 case. Needs taller crystal gasket otherwise second hand touches the crystal. Would theoretically be an option but hard to find.
- ST3035 case: Gen spec case, but stubby crownguards which annoys me , not available anymore or expensive.
-ST3135 case: Gen spec case, but designed as 16610 case, so deeper rehaut, stubby crownguards, also not available anymore or expensive
-Old MBW case: 11610 case, dial opening as gen, gen dial fits perfectly, proportions very near to gen (right “look”), no gen spec bezel construction, has lugholes, perfect bezel height and shape with shallower teeth as 16800, 316L steel. Sometines bad lughole position so fiddly to install endlinks, current case i use for my 168000.
-AliX case: Got a sub case on Aliexpress not branded for a specific sub model but with nice shallow and perpendicular rehaut and lugholes (too small though, need drilling). Gen dial fits. Has a sapphire crystal installed with no cyclop, so need a replacement. Downside is that the case shape needs to be heavily reworked in several spots (lug shape, thickness, CGs etc.). Need to check if Eta 2836 fits regarding stem height though. But I assume it does.
It has a wire spring mounted bezel, so not gen spec but on the other hand I could install the perfect MBW bezel, might work (hopefully).
So in sum as always nothing perfect, you have to choose the trade offs you can live with, as always.
I once read somewhere: “If you get a 16610 case, drill holes and put a 3135 in it, your not building a 16800 your building a 16610 with lug holes”. That perfectly sums it up. And therefore and because I already have a tritium 16610 on my project list and I am a big fan of case shaping I think I might give the ALiX case a try.
to be continued...
So lets continue with the case of a 16800/0.
Its not easy to find a case with the correct features for a 16800/0 project.
I am quite happy with my MBW case, it has the right look with one exception, the rehaut which is a bit too deep since its originally a case made for 16610. And that bugs me a bit.
Since the Gen 16800/0 is equipped with a 3035 caliber which is taller than its successor 3135 (a little bit thicker above the stem), the 16800 case had a shallower (and also a very perpendicular) rehaut and for a long time I was not aware that it was exactly that what makes me immediately think that a 16800 had the correct signature look.
One could now think to just file down the rehaut on a 16610 case but that will not solve the problem. Then it will look shallower but only because the rehaut is shorter from the top down and also that would result in a visually larger distance from crystal top edge to rehaut top shoulder. And you would need to file down quite a bit which would make it look off.
The real solution would be to shave the rehaut on the inner side of the case which you can only do with a lathe and a lot of knowledge. But then again, a clone 3135 will probably not fit because the stem alignment will be off and could also causing seconds hand clearance issues.
BTW flashback: some may remember its funny how everyone in this rep hobby was desperately looking for a case with deep rehaut 20 years ago (OMG I am old
) when most Sub reps had terribly wokky and shallow rehauts, “which case has a deep rehaut” was the second most asked question besides “who has the best sub” ;-) And now I am looking for a shallow rehaut Anyway, therefore I investigated different case options. This is what I came up with (no guarantee that all is correct):
-Silian/ARF/RAF case: gen dial fits, gen spec bezel assembly. but needs drilling lugholes and the rehaut is still too deep for a 16800. Lug length is also different than 16800, too short. So imho no advantage compared to my MBW case.
-BP case: Has a shallower rehaut although its a 16610 case. Gen like bezel assembly. Needs removing of the rehaut engravings which unfortunately impacts the thickness of the rehaut “shoulder” seen from top because material is removed. Tested it, was not thrilled. Also need drilling lugholes. But the killer: the dial opening is too big, gen dial falls through at least the 16800/0 dials, even with the VR3135 BP case. So no option for me.
-TC case: Gen dial fits, great case, gen spec bezel assembly. But also rehaut a bit too deep since it’s a 16610 case and no way I will drill lugholes in my 16610 TC ;-) Alternative would be an early TC case with lugholes which features a shallower but still a bit to deep rehaut compared to Gen, somewhere between a gen 16800 and 16610 rehaut depth. But hard to get and expensive and still for that not optimal.
-JF V1 or V2 case: 16610 case but with shallower rehaut. v1 needs shaving off the rehaut engraving.
Incorrect for 16610 but close to the 16800 case. Needs taller crystal gasket otherwise second hand touches the crystal. Would theoretically be an option but hard to find.
- ST3035 case: Gen spec case, but stubby crownguards which annoys me , not available anymore or expensive.
-ST3135 case: Gen spec case, but designed as 16610 case, so deeper rehaut, stubby crownguards, also not available anymore or expensive
-Old MBW case: 11610 case, dial opening as gen, gen dial fits perfectly, proportions very near to gen (right “look”), no gen spec bezel construction, has lugholes, perfect bezel height and shape with shallower teeth as 16800, 316L steel. Sometines bad lughole position so fiddly to install endlinks, current case i use for my 168000.
-AliX case: Got a sub case on Aliexpress not branded for a specific sub model but with nice shallow and perpendicular rehaut and lugholes (too small though, need drilling). Gen dial fits. Has a sapphire crystal installed with no cyclop, so need a replacement. Downside is that the case shape needs to be heavily reworked in several spots (lug shape, thickness, CGs etc.). Need to check if Eta 2836 fits regarding stem height though. But I assume it does.
It has a wire spring mounted bezel, so not gen spec but on the other hand I could install the perfect MBW bezel, might work (hopefully).
So in sum as always nothing perfect, you have to choose the trade offs you can live with, as always.
I once read somewhere: “If you get a 16610 case, drill holes and put a 3135 in it, your not building a 16800 your building a 16610 with lug holes”. That perfectly sums it up. And therefore and because I already have a tritium 16610 on my project list and I am a big fan of case shaping I think I might give the ALiX case a try.
to be continued...
Nice ,I took an old WM9 Case for my 16800. Shaved the Rehaut down and drilled Lugholes.
I have also an old MBW Case in my parts Bin. Maybe a one for a second 16800
ah interesting! guess this falls under point "TC case" since teh TC and WM9 were the same source/factory.
Which version did you use, WM9 v3?