Revisiting my Franken 16800 “Zorro”

[turbo911]

​

After finishing my 1675 raffles project and my DW v23 6263, I am thinking about revisiting and upgrading my Franken 16800 “Zorro”


Here is the current status quo:





Its based on a 20 year old MBW 16610 Submariner case with lugholes and 316L steel and good crown height (gen 3035 fits). I has a bezel with correct thickness and correct bevel and more correct shallow teeth which are different to the successor 16610.
The case just has the right proportions and the “look” compared to a gen neo vintage sub. Even compared with todays available rep cases.
The downside was fitting the endlinks was a PITA because the lugholes are a tad bit far from the tips of the lugs. I had to shorten the endlinks to get them to fit.

The watch features a rarer gen Tritium 16800 dial with flat „S“ also called “Zorro” dial or “Zubmariner” imho dating the watch to around 1985-87 and 8-9 million serial.

As movement I installed a Swiss ETA 2386 with a really nice DWO with great serifs.
As bracelet, i used a rep 93150 with hollow midlinks and 580 endlinks (I don’t have the correct 593 endlinks).

First a bit of history about the 16800 (because i like to research :
The 16800 was the first Rolex sport model to have a sapphire crystal along with a high beat movement, caliber 3035 . It followed the 1680.
Rolex also introduced a Quickset date function for added convenience. The 16800 featured an improved water resistance rating of 300 meters, aligning with today's Submariners.
The bezel design was changed to a safer unidirectional rotation, preventing accidental time measurement errors during dives.
Case size is 39mm. From its introduction in 1979, up until 1984, Rolex continued to use the matte dials with painted hour markers.
On later 16800's - from 1983 and until 1987 - the matte was replaced with a gloss dial and hour markers surrounded with white gold.

Toward the end of the production of the 16800, and for only about nine months, Rolex produced the 168000, in which the stainless steel was upgraded from grade 316 to grade 904. The one main difference between both models is the stainless steel material.
Ultimately, the ref. 16800 was phased out in the late 1980s, making way for the ref. 16610 and a new era of Submariner watches.

Gen:


Ad in 1985 funnily not mentioning the reference (we are geeks arent we)


So, following thoughts for possible improvements:
Insert
Install genuine 16800 insert with tritium pearl I have. I think i also have one with an aged tritium pearl but have to look in the safe.


Movement

History: The gen 16800 received an updated caliber, the 3035 with higher frequency of 28,800 bph and introduction of a quick-set date function for the first time and increased power reserve up to 42 hours.
Since the 16800 is equipped with a 3035 caliber which is taller than its successor 3135 which was used in the 16610, the 16800 case had a shallow and also more perpendicular rehaut. But more on this topic when it comes to my case options.

So what are my movement options:
using a clone 3135: not sure if that would fit because of stem height since the case is made for 3035 or 2836, so most likely not because of stem height issues.

Gen 3035: apparently should fit the case but too costly and I would rather use it on one of my all-gen-parts projects.

Unfortunately there are no clone 3035
Therefore I probably will stay with the swiss Eta 2836 which I serviced and which runs great.

to be continued...

 

[Rocketdog]

​

After finishing my 1675 raffles project and my DW v23 6263, I am thinking about revisiting and upgrading my Franken 16800 “Zorro”


Here is the current status quo:





Its based on a 20 year old MBW 16610 Submariner case with lugholes and 316L steel and good crown height (gen 3035 fits). I has a bezel with correct thickness and correct bevel and more correct shallow teeth which are different to the successor 16610.
The case just has the right proportions and the “look” compared to a gen neo vintage sub. Even compared with todays available rep cases.
The downside was fitting the endlinks was a PITA because the lugholes are a tad bit far from the tips of the lugs. I had to shorten the endlinks to get them to fit.

The watch features a rarer gen Tritium 16800 dial with flat „S“ also called “Zorro” dial or “Zubmariner” imho dating the watch to around 1985 and 8.8 million serial.

As movement I installed a Swiss ETA 2386 with a really nice DWO with great serifs.
As bracelet, i used a rep 93150 with hollow midlinks and 580 endlinks (I don’t have the correct 593 endlinks).

First a bit of history about the 16800 (because i like to research :
The 16800 was the first Rolex sport model to have a sapphire crystal along with a high beat movement, caliber 3035 . It followed the 1680.
Case size is 39mm. From its introduction in 1979, up until 1984, Rolex continued to use the matte dials with painted hour markers.
On later 16800's - from 1983 and until 1987 - the matte was replaced with a gloss dial and hour markers surrounded with white gold.

Toward the end of the production of the 16800, and for only about nine months, Rolex produced the 168000, in which the stainless steel was upgraded from grade 316 to grade 904. The one main difference between both models is the stainless steel material.



So, following thoughts for possible improvements:
Insert
Install genuine 16800 insert with tritium pearl I have. I think i also have one with an aged tritium pearl but have to look in the safe.


Movement

History: The gen 16800 received an updated caliber, the 3035 with higher frequency of 28,800 bph and introduction of a quick-set date function for the first time and increased power reserve up to 42 hours.
Since the 16800 is equipped with a 3035 caliber which is taller than its successor 3135 which was used in the 16610, the 16800 case had a shallow and also more perpendicular rehaut. But more on this topic when it comes to my case options.

So what are my movement options:
using a clone 3135: not sure if that would fit because of stem height since the case is made for 3035 or 2836, so most likely not because of stem height issues.

Gen 3035: apparently should fit the case but too costly and I would rather use it on one of my all-gen-parts projects.

Unfortunately there are no clone 3035
Therefore I probably will stay with the swiss Eta 2836 which I serviced and which runs great.

to be continued...

Lovely build.

 

[est4129]

Beautiful. If I ever decide to build a Rolex instead of Tudors a 16800 would be at the top of my list!

 

[turbo911]

ok on we go.

addition to the first post regarding the history of that reference (found online):
The 16800 or Submariner 300 m was introduced around 1978, ten years after the first Sub Date
The history of the 16800 is like many Subs / SDs linked to Comex, for which Rolex produced around 300 numbered 16800’s with matte and gloss dials between 82 and 86. Some gloss 16800’s had a problem: the tritium COMEX logo dials had little pieces come off the dial. Many received a 16610 tritium replacement COMEX dial when serviced.
This was not the only problem the early 16800 gloss dials. Some have spider web like cracks in the gloss coating. The matte dials are sometimes brownish and the markers get a lot of patina on some samples.

so back to my watch.
Movement
background story: The 1575 movement powering its predecessor ref. 1680 was retired and replaced with the higher-beat cal. 3035 with a then-new Quickset date function for for added convenience.

A safer unidirectional rotation bezel was used, preventing accidental time measurement errors during dives. The 16800 was also the first Submariner to provide water resistance up to 300 meters, which remains the Submariner’s standard depth rating to this day. Quite interesting since we keep forgetting these days that these watches were initially build for professional divers, really… serious divers not bathtub divers like me.

so my options are:
a) using a clone 3135: not sure if that would fit because of stem height since the case is made for 3035 or 2836, so most likely not. Might test it, then i could get gen tritium hands
b) Gen 3035: apparently should fit the case but too costly and If i would get one, I would rather use it on one of my all-gen-parts projects. Unfortunately no rep 3035 available
c) keep the swiss ETA 2836

Probably i will stay with the swiss Eta 2836 which I serviced and which runs great but out of curiosity will test if a VS/VR3135 wil fit.

Datewheel
Early 16800 had the old style silver date wheel with open 6’s and 9’s and round top 3´s. After some time, Rolex switched to a white datewheel.


I have a perfect white DWO with open 6’s and 9’s and round top 3´s installed, so no need to change that.

 

[turbo911]

Bracelet​

Background

The 16800 came with 93150 bracelet and 593 endlinks.
You often see 16800 with 580 and 501b endlinks, but Rolex originally fitted 593 although both 580 and 501b endlinks fit perfectly and are often also offered from an AD when you want to buy a new 93150 for a 16800.

An interesting bit is that there are 2 variations of 593 endlinks.
593 end links with a round 3 font and 593 with a flat 3 font. 16800 equipped with matte dials will have the flat 3 links, later gloss dial watches will have the rounded 3. Similar to the datewheels, silver datwheels had flat 3`s and later white datewheels round top 3´s. Seems that the flat top 3 font was phased out by Rolex.

If one wants a newer style of bracelet, the 93250 bracelet with SEL will also fit your 16800 since it has this milled out ridge at the case between the lugs. Would never do that of course

Back to my watch.

I have a gen 93150 clasp with U9 code in my parts box which dates it to 1996/97. Inknow too late for my 198xish 16800 but often bracelets were replaced therefore that’s good enough for me.

I also have a gen 93150 bracelet with 580 endlinks but its installed on my 1680 Franken and I don’t want to cannibalize that one.


Anyone got a pair of 593? ;-) I am not aware of rep 593s, Raffles only has 580.

I am not willing to shell out 300+ EUR for a 2 pieces of cheap bend sheet metal even if its gen RLX

to be continued...

 

[heska]

Hi, great project !

It's actually possible to fit a 3135 in a 3035, but it will need some works . See there for example: https://forum.replica-watch.info/threads/franken-rolex-datejust-build-with-vs-3135.10919812/
You can keep your 3035 hands but the datewheel will not fit a 3135