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This is my 2000th post on RWG (plus a bunch on RWI and RepGeek), and to celebrate that milestone I am writing the first rep vs. gen review of the Audemars Piguet Tourbillon replica.
Audemars Piguet Tourbillon Replica
The genuine version of the Extra-Thin Tourbillon (26510ST.00.1220ST.01) was announced by Audemars Piguet at the 2012 SIHH convention. The design is a really beautiful evolution of the classic Royal Oak design by Gerard Genta in 1972, with obvious modifications including case dimensions. The Extra-Thin gen was a breakthrough in tourbillon design with a thickness of only 8.85 mm.
The first AD to announce sales of the replica AP Tourbillon was Tim aka Fat Panda aka Watch Finder, TD at RWG. Here’s his posting on RWG from July 2014:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=82897&st=0
My watch was originally purchased from Watch Finder by RWG VIP Mnaji89, who sold it to me member-to-member. To help me with this write up, he forwarded all his QC pictures, QC videos, emails and messages sent to him by Watch Finder in the purchase. The quality of communications and service by Watch Finder was superb. Watch Finder actually rejected the original tourbillon replica sent to him by Factory T because of this smudge on the bezel, so he did the whole QC process twice until he found a second AP tourbillon replica that was perfect.
Like many of you I have been interested in owning a tourbillon for years. Here is a sampling of what is out there. This is a collage of pics from the RWI Tourbillon Club member photos.
I hope you will agree by the end of this that this Audemars Piguet rep is one of the most visually stunning Tourbillons on the rep market.
On to the review. For the most part, I will let the pictures do most of the talking. I have seen the AP Extra-Thin Tourbillon in the flesh (at local AD) but was unable to obtain detailed photos as the price was over $100K and they seemed cautious about loaning it to me. The photos of the gen on www.audemarspiguet.com and on print ads appear to be extremely Photoshopped. Whenever possible, I used photos of genuine watches on sale at various dealers and auctions gleaned from the web.
REP VS. GEN AUDEMARS PIGUET TOURBILLON
Frontal view:
Notice from the front view in particular how the rep is virtually indistinguishable from gen. Color of dial is absolutely correct to gen (rep is available in multiple colors but gen only in blue). Steel case looks good (gen also available in gold). The Petite Tapisserie design of the dial identifies it as an extra-thin AP (the Grande Tapisserie squares and Mega Tapisserie squares on other models are larger); I counted squares and sizing is correct. The engraving of the Petite Tapisserie is perfect, including the different directions of engraving on the tops of squares vs the “Clous de Paris†engraving on the flat. The precision and depth of the engraving are incredibly good. See also close-ups below.
I also note that the bridges of the tourbillon are more highly polished on most photos of the gen. On the rep, they are not exactly matte but just a little unpolished.
Oblique view:
Again, virtually indistiguishable from gen. Note the correct polished vs brushed finish on case and bezel (only diagonal beveled surface of bezel is polished, rest brushed).
Bracelet:
The gen like feel and finish quality of the bracelet is absolutely outstanding. It shimmers in the sunlight in a way that is difficult to describe. Well done, Factory T
Clasp:
This is at the first oops. There should not be an AP logo, just the words spelled out. It is not visible when watch is on.
Logo detail (loupe):
The logo is painted directly over the squares of the Petite Tapisserie as per gen (there is no flattened area for the logo printing).. It is approximately 1/2 square too low on the rep, with the top of the letter A falling on top of a raised square rather than on the flat. Unfortunately it is near impossible to get a blow-up loupe photo of the gen, other than the heavily Photoshopped ones on the official AP site. My sense is the font design, size, and color is correct. The white paint might be applied somewhat more thinly on the rep. Other differences are just because it is printed too low on the Tapisserie which makes the print look slightly different.
Cannon wheel and hands detail (loupe):
There are differences in the cannon pinion and hands between rep and gen, but these are visible only with magnification. Briefly, the hands on the gen have slightly rounded surfaces and a more appealing and sculpted appearance of the joint between the hands and their bases. The cannon pin is slightly thinner and slightly sunken on the Rep but again, this is hardly visible. You can also see that the hour markers are correct width, color and length.
Lume (REP VS REP):
I am comparing this to my beast of a Graham, which has lume you can read by. Again, it is unfair to compare a dive watch lume to a dress watch. But I think it is pretty obvious the lume is pretty weak. At about 1 min it is barely present.
Anti-Reflective Coat (REP VS REP):
Also comparing to my Graham diver, which has top-notch AR. The light is the same distance and angle from the crystals of each watch, but the sunburst pattern of reflection of light from the crystal is much worse on the AP Tourbillon. I do NOT know of gen AR quality 100% but based on photos I believe that the rep is not as good as the gen AR.
Case back:
Here we start to see some cracks in the otherwise well done design of this replica. The power reserve meter is absent (not even a faux meter, which I would actually have preferred to the cut out where it should have been. The word SWISS is missing from next to the PR meter. There are multiple other imperfections in the fonts on the back, most notably the “Audemars Piguet†is done in normal Roman font not the typical AP logo typeface. On the wrist, none of this is obvious of course.
Side view:
Sigh. It’s just not “Extra-Thin.†This could EASILY have been reduced a little with a flatter rep bezel (see how the rep bezel protrudes at least a mm farther out). The depth of the case back probably can’t be helped due to the size of the Chinese tourbillon movement.
Movement:
There are a number of reviews of the different Chinese tourbillon movements. Here are two
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=16780&st=0
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=36615
Based on these I believe the movement on the AP Tourbillon replica is the Shanghai. I could be wrong, but I think the combination of center-mount balance spring (non carousel) and bridges strongly suggests this is true. Which is good, because (again, see the reviews), it is unquestionably one of the more dependable and beautiful Chinese tourbillon movements. The AP Tourbillon balance wheel frequency is 21,600 which is correct to gen; the tourbillon cage makes one full revolution per 60 seconds, also correct. The AP Tourbillon movement winds and sets smoothly, movement is smooth and silky, and is nearly silent (you can listen to video at end). It has an observed power reserve over 36 hours. Obviously using the Shanghai movement instead of gen AP calibre 2924 is part of why the rep is thicker than gen.
A few more pictures, just cause It is a damn good looking rep.
And a video (you may need to click it):
And finally, I know you are likely curious to see if it keeps good time
In summary:
- This is an extremely attractive piece.
- On the wrist the tells are not visible, as defects are in overall thickness, caseback design, and back of clasp. There is a roughly zero risk of being called out especially given the gen is vanishingly rare.
- The quality of case, bracelet, dial engraving, and the raw beauty of the tourbillon movement are exceptional.
- The movement is well made, beautiful, and keeps fantastic time
- Tourbillon reps are less common, and so expensive that that I guess there probably will not be a version 2 of the AP Tourbillon. But, Factory T and Watch Finder, if you are listening, I would like a fake PR meter on the movement back, correct fonts and the word Swiss on the movement back, the Audemars Piguet logo a bit higher and a bit whiter on the dial, and a thinner bezel to slim the case down.
I cannot in good conscience call a replica that is 40% too thick a super rep or 1:1. But, I can say it is SUPER. So, get one.
Machiavegli
***EDITED 11 APRIL 2018*** All images reuploaded to different image host for your enjoyment -Mach
Audemars Piguet Tourbillon Replica
The genuine version of the Extra-Thin Tourbillon (26510ST.00.1220ST.01) was announced by Audemars Piguet at the 2012 SIHH convention. The design is a really beautiful evolution of the classic Royal Oak design by Gerard Genta in 1972, with obvious modifications including case dimensions. The Extra-Thin gen was a breakthrough in tourbillon design with a thickness of only 8.85 mm.
The first AD to announce sales of the replica AP Tourbillon was Tim aka Fat Panda aka Watch Finder, TD at RWG. Here’s his posting on RWG from July 2014:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=82897&st=0
My watch was originally purchased from Watch Finder by RWG VIP Mnaji89, who sold it to me member-to-member. To help me with this write up, he forwarded all his QC pictures, QC videos, emails and messages sent to him by Watch Finder in the purchase. The quality of communications and service by Watch Finder was superb. Watch Finder actually rejected the original tourbillon replica sent to him by Factory T because of this smudge on the bezel, so he did the whole QC process twice until he found a second AP tourbillon replica that was perfect.
Like many of you I have been interested in owning a tourbillon for years. Here is a sampling of what is out there. This is a collage of pics from the RWI Tourbillon Club member photos.
I hope you will agree by the end of this that this Audemars Piguet rep is one of the most visually stunning Tourbillons on the rep market.
On to the review. For the most part, I will let the pictures do most of the talking. I have seen the AP Extra-Thin Tourbillon in the flesh (at local AD) but was unable to obtain detailed photos as the price was over $100K and they seemed cautious about loaning it to me. The photos of the gen on www.audemarspiguet.com and on print ads appear to be extremely Photoshopped. Whenever possible, I used photos of genuine watches on sale at various dealers and auctions gleaned from the web.
REP VS. GEN AUDEMARS PIGUET TOURBILLON
Frontal view:
Notice from the front view in particular how the rep is virtually indistinguishable from gen. Color of dial is absolutely correct to gen (rep is available in multiple colors but gen only in blue). Steel case looks good (gen also available in gold). The Petite Tapisserie design of the dial identifies it as an extra-thin AP (the Grande Tapisserie squares and Mega Tapisserie squares on other models are larger); I counted squares and sizing is correct. The engraving of the Petite Tapisserie is perfect, including the different directions of engraving on the tops of squares vs the “Clous de Paris†engraving on the flat. The precision and depth of the engraving are incredibly good. See also close-ups below.
I also note that the bridges of the tourbillon are more highly polished on most photos of the gen. On the rep, they are not exactly matte but just a little unpolished.
Oblique view:
Again, virtually indistiguishable from gen. Note the correct polished vs brushed finish on case and bezel (only diagonal beveled surface of bezel is polished, rest brushed).
Bracelet:
The gen like feel and finish quality of the bracelet is absolutely outstanding. It shimmers in the sunlight in a way that is difficult to describe. Well done, Factory T
Clasp:
This is at the first oops. There should not be an AP logo, just the words spelled out. It is not visible when watch is on.
Logo detail (loupe):
The logo is painted directly over the squares of the Petite Tapisserie as per gen (there is no flattened area for the logo printing).. It is approximately 1/2 square too low on the rep, with the top of the letter A falling on top of a raised square rather than on the flat. Unfortunately it is near impossible to get a blow-up loupe photo of the gen, other than the heavily Photoshopped ones on the official AP site. My sense is the font design, size, and color is correct. The white paint might be applied somewhat more thinly on the rep. Other differences are just because it is printed too low on the Tapisserie which makes the print look slightly different.
Cannon wheel and hands detail (loupe):
There are differences in the cannon pinion and hands between rep and gen, but these are visible only with magnification. Briefly, the hands on the gen have slightly rounded surfaces and a more appealing and sculpted appearance of the joint between the hands and their bases. The cannon pin is slightly thinner and slightly sunken on the Rep but again, this is hardly visible. You can also see that the hour markers are correct width, color and length.
Lume (REP VS REP):
I am comparing this to my beast of a Graham, which has lume you can read by. Again, it is unfair to compare a dive watch lume to a dress watch. But I think it is pretty obvious the lume is pretty weak. At about 1 min it is barely present.
Anti-Reflective Coat (REP VS REP):
Also comparing to my Graham diver, which has top-notch AR. The light is the same distance and angle from the crystals of each watch, but the sunburst pattern of reflection of light from the crystal is much worse on the AP Tourbillon. I do NOT know of gen AR quality 100% but based on photos I believe that the rep is not as good as the gen AR.
Case back:
Here we start to see some cracks in the otherwise well done design of this replica. The power reserve meter is absent (not even a faux meter, which I would actually have preferred to the cut out where it should have been. The word SWISS is missing from next to the PR meter. There are multiple other imperfections in the fonts on the back, most notably the “Audemars Piguet†is done in normal Roman font not the typical AP logo typeface. On the wrist, none of this is obvious of course.
Side view:
Sigh. It’s just not “Extra-Thin.†This could EASILY have been reduced a little with a flatter rep bezel (see how the rep bezel protrudes at least a mm farther out). The depth of the case back probably can’t be helped due to the size of the Chinese tourbillon movement.
Movement:
There are a number of reviews of the different Chinese tourbillon movements. Here are two
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=16780&st=0
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=36615
Based on these I believe the movement on the AP Tourbillon replica is the Shanghai. I could be wrong, but I think the combination of center-mount balance spring (non carousel) and bridges strongly suggests this is true. Which is good, because (again, see the reviews), it is unquestionably one of the more dependable and beautiful Chinese tourbillon movements. The AP Tourbillon balance wheel frequency is 21,600 which is correct to gen; the tourbillon cage makes one full revolution per 60 seconds, also correct. The AP Tourbillon movement winds and sets smoothly, movement is smooth and silky, and is nearly silent (you can listen to video at end). It has an observed power reserve over 36 hours. Obviously using the Shanghai movement instead of gen AP calibre 2924 is part of why the rep is thicker than gen.
A few more pictures, just cause It is a damn good looking rep.
And a video (you may need to click it):
And finally, I know you are likely curious to see if it keeps good time
In summary:
- This is an extremely attractive piece.
- On the wrist the tells are not visible, as defects are in overall thickness, caseback design, and back of clasp. There is a roughly zero risk of being called out especially given the gen is vanishingly rare.
- The quality of case, bracelet, dial engraving, and the raw beauty of the tourbillon movement are exceptional.
- The movement is well made, beautiful, and keeps fantastic time
- Tourbillon reps are less common, and so expensive that that I guess there probably will not be a version 2 of the AP Tourbillon. But, Factory T and Watch Finder, if you are listening, I would like a fake PR meter on the movement back, correct fonts and the word Swiss on the movement back, the Audemars Piguet logo a bit higher and a bit whiter on the dial, and a thinner bezel to slim the case down.
I cannot in good conscience call a replica that is 40% too thick a super rep or 1:1. But, I can say it is SUPER. So, get one.
Machiavegli
***EDITED 11 APRIL 2018*** All images reuploaded to different image host for your enjoyment -Mach
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