Rep vs gen….am I the only one?

[Dragonfan]

Let me start by saying that I’m not trying to be a jerk, tone deaf or worse. I’m genuinely curious if anyone else has these conversations with themselves.

it is getting increasingly difficult to justify buying reps ( for me anyway ) with the way prices are moving. A few years ago the gens I was interested in were $5k -$6k. The reps were $300. Now days, the gens I like are $3k - $4k and the reps are $500 and even higher.

For example, I can buy a 000 with triple boxes and all stickers/paperwork for $3500. I have spent close to $1000 on reps in the last two weeks. At some point shouldn’t I just get the gen?

I understand that there is still a difference between $1000 and $3500 but not prohibitively so. Anyway, I hope I didn’t ruffle any feathers. I’m just interested to know if anyone else has similar thoughts.

 

[R2L]

You raise a question that crosses the mind of just about every serious rep collector. But only you can make that decision. Some here would prefer to own 5-10 reps than one gen as it gives variety to their collection. Others use reps as a way of determining which gen they’d like to own for the long term. Whatever you’ll decide will work for you and some members, but not for others. And all that is ok.


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[mech500]

Interesting points. What gen are you interested in that is depreciating by 50% in a few years?

If you like Patek/Rolex designs but can’t get on the waiting list or don’t want to fork out 10-80k then a 500 rep makes practical sense.

If you like omega but don’t want to spend 9000us on a NTTD or planet ocean (or whatever), then once again a 500us rep, that is essentially indistinguishable from gen, makes sense.

Don’t think I could get too excited about a $3500 gen, when I could have 30k gen AP aesthetics on the wrist for 500 but that’s just me


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[mech500]

Perhaps get the 3500 gen but that shouldn’t stop you from enjoying reps of more high end watches that you like the aesthetic of


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[KOT1917]

Another position: VSF makes for $ 500 PAM382, which I would never buy for $ 20k.
Knowing about reps, I find it difficult to understand what would have made me buy gen pam005 / 111/104/312 and something similar.
But trying the PAM985 for $ 500 rather than $ 50k is a very attractive option.

Here it is not necessary to go into exclusive models, a fairly massive, but rather expensive 438, buying a gen of which, knowing about the rep VSF, is not an unambiguous step.

I don't think it makes sense to buy simple gen models, because they give too few advantages over rep, and expensive, because their AD price is clearly overpriced, in my opinion.
Buying rare collectible, vintage gen models is a smart way, but it is always quite expensive, and in general, a different class of watches.

And of course, I agree with the comment above: I would hardly imagine the circumstances under which I would exchange 5 of my rep for 1 gen, and probably very commonplace.

 

[Dragonfan]

I appreciate all the input. I guess I was hoping for someone to convince me to buy the $3500 PAM000. Seems that most people here wouldn’t go that route.

 

[allez]

For me it is a personal thing to buy a gen for the amount I could have a couple high end reps.
Second I was in a similar position few years ago because I like the Pams too and a good friend got a 005 what I did try on etc.

I bought Noob/Hfact 005, 177, 088 and after few months the gen base Pam was not desirable because I realized I like more to swap watches and (my personal!) opinion was/is that it is too much $ for a let’s say simple Handwind watch so I decided to go for a gen omega speedmaster wirh coax movement with more technical claim instead. And I do not regret after nearly 10 years now since.

But tbh watches and their value is a pretty discutable thing and over all personal view.

So think about it or if the money for that is no prob for you, do what makes you happy

And PS here are many „crazy inmates“ that have a lot of Gens and yes reps… and could afford more gens but maybe also love to see the rep industry improvements or only put the 10K watch in the safe and wear the 500$ rep with no regret also at gardening


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[Dragonfan]

I don’t doubt that there are many gen owners on this and other rep fora. Trust me, I love a good rep as much as the next guy. Maybe this issue is bigger for me because the gens I like are not the $25k Rolex or the $35k AP or the $60k Patek. I’m more drawn to the sub $5k Breitlings and Panerais.

 

[allez]

I‘m also more with the let’s say non gold etc and affordable watches which I could buy also one or maybe two as gen without risking divorce but not 5/6 of them to swap like I do ….so I own a bunch of Pams, Seamasters, Subs.

An older Chronomat on bracelet maybe I would buy also gen as a everyday piece, for me personally a nice and affordable gen that has his own history and Charme. Maybe for next round birthday or so.
A gen is a gen and you get another feeling (me) wearing it. But I am impressed from the zf and vsf pieces I own so nothing to worry..it’s a nice hobby and also the rep prices are very stable so risk is predictable apart from bigger technical problems etc which can occur on reps more than gens of course


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[mech500]

I agree. Gen is gen. if you like your breitling and PAMs, then yes, get a gen, why not.

The question is, after you’ve gotten the planned gen, are you actually going to “wear it daily” (as planned) or will you be distracted by all the beautiful and exclusive PAM reps in your collection?

That’s the issue I Have....gens sounds good in theory but there’s just so many reps to try out, that I don’t have the time or inclination to wear my gens.

If I was a 1 watch guy, then yes, I’d buy gen and probably would dabble in reps. However, like many here, we like to try out different watches and therefore the rep hobby is more accommodating.


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[allez]

However, like many here, we like to try out different watches and therefore the rep hobby is more accommodating.

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Totally agreed, my opinion.


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[Hazing]

I appreciate all the input. I guess I was hoping for someone to convince me to buy the $3500 PAM000. Seems that most people here wouldn’t go that route.

I don’t think that’s true. There are a lot of users here, myself included who have a mix of gen and rep watches. I think it’s the way you phrased the question that asked for the logic of why own a rep that people responded too.

The answer to the questions you asked (and didn’t ask) depend a lot on the individual wants and needs as well as the persons collection Itself and also what they’re trying to accomplish with reps.

And while I could easily justify buying gen models, personally I’m not sure if I would put $3500 to a 000. But this is personal preference. I could see buying a rep. But you’re asking about the cheapest possible panerai option and it’s important to consider not every panerai is around $3500. In fact, it’s pretty tough to get any model other than a base mode for under $5k. Realistically we’re talking a $6500 floor for other “low priced” options. But as been stated here, many of the repped models are $10, 12, 30 or even $100k models. But your question is worth considering for anyone who buys reps. I’m sure we’ve all thought about it from time to time. And think about it from time to time on an ongoing basis.


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[leo6929]

Variety in reps and gens... that's the real beauty of it! :thumbsup:

 

[Rupert Fripp]

The question for me is why would anyone spend $3500 when you can spend $350?

 

[GingerBubba]

Horses courses. Everyone's different so every response on this thread is equally valid, but I see no value at all in Gen. I only have one Swiss Gen and even that's because there isn't a decent rep (Speedy). If VSF come back from the dead and make a clone movement Speedy, I'll sell the Gen in a heartbeat. They literally feel no different (to me) and whilst I love the Speedy, that's down to the design, not some imagined, additional Gen quality; they're nothing but wrist trinkets, just a lump of metal on the wrist.

 

[Dragonfan]

Whoa…..slow down. I love a good rep as much as the next guy but there is undoubtedly a difference between rep and gen. Even the best rep…..Noob 005 for instance….is still lacking in quality when compared to gen.

You are right that the difference between the rep and the gen may not be worth the price difference to some, but it most certainly is to others.

 

[Hesekiel]

I appreciate all the input. I guess I was hoping for someone to convince me to buy the $3500 PAM000. Seems that most people here wouldn’t go that route.

There are people on this board who can afford to buy an expensive GEN, or two, or three, yet still choose to wear a superrep instead. So why?
Let me take your example and view it from a different angle, as it's my angle. I don't have 30 reps like some folks here. I have 4 reps and 2 GENs, for a total of 6 watches.

1) PAM 3646, paid $600 for used custom rep, GEN $125,000
2) PAM 6152-1, paid $1,250 for custom rep, GEN $165,000
3) PAM 382, paid $500, used GEN now $28,000
4) Rolex DSSD, paid $400 for used rep, GEN $18,000

5) Seiko Tuna, paid $650 for used GEN
6) Zlatoust 191 ChS, paid $650 for used GEN


If I were to buy my 4 reps as GEN, it would cost me around $326,000
Yet all in all I have about $2,750 invested my 4 reps, less than you'd have to pay for a used PAM 000 GEN.

If you buy a rep PAM for $400 instead of spending $3,500 on a GEN, you can put $3,100 in your retirement account, buy VTSAX or its ETF equivalent VTI, forget about it, and never look back. Assuming you are about 30 years old, you first look at that account again in 35 years, when you are ready to retire. Guess what the $3,100 have turned into? I'll tell you. At a conservative rate of 7% after inflation, you're looking at over $33,000.

Now ask yourself this question again: would you rather have a GEN PAM 000, or a top-notch replica plus $33,000 to be withdrawn when you are older?
This is how I have approached this hobby. I drove a Ferrari Dino when I was 26, had several GEN Rolexes, Cartier stuff, vacationed several times a year on Ibiza, but I never had any savings. I lived paycheck to paycheck and it took me decades to realize how stupid I have been. Now I'm more of a value-oriented shopper, and I'm thinking long term. I would never wear a crappy rep again, one that looks fake from across the street, but we luckily now have access to superreps that are so well made that it would take an expert with a loop to tell it apart from a GEN. I'm wearing my Panerai Bronzo right now, and it looks so perfect on my wrist that I find myself looking at it more often than I should and I can't believe it's not a GEN, so perfect is it.

Life is full of choices. Good luck in your decision-finding process.

 

[EuroTime25]

For me I could have bought a Gen Panerai 111 or Tudor Pelagos or Breitling B50 which I wanted for a long time all with in the 4k range, but for same price I was able to get all the watches I dreamed of. Pam111, 1661, Rolex Deepsea, Rolex SeaDweller, Tudor Pelagos, Breitling B50(GHgate version), Breitling Avenger Blackhawk (just purchased), AP 15703 (which I never thought I wanted but I did once I got it), Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Titanium (ordered waiting for QC). So in the end got all of my dream watches plus more. Yes some say Gen is Gen but my brain cannot tell the differences. I still treat my reps like they are gens. So its a win win for me. I am eyeing Breitling B50 just because the DH Gate rep sucks donkey balls. So that may have to be a Gen only purchase.

 

[Dragonfan]

If you wear the rep because you like how it looks then I guess it doesn’t matter about anything else. Unfortunately, many rep owners try very hard to pas# their reps off as gens. That just looks silly when someone is driving a Honda Civic wearing what they purport to be a $50k watch. It’s a personal choice but I wouldn’t wear a rep of a watch that I couldn’t afford in gen.

The more I think about it, I guess it really doesn’t matter. 99.7% of people don’t care about your watch. However, that 0.03% of people who will notice and do care about your watch will know it’s fugazi.

 

[pixel_junkie]

99.7% of people don’t care about your watch. However, that 0.03% of people who will notice and do care about your watch will know it’s fugazi.

That maybe in most of the US but if you travel to major metropolitan areas around the world, people know what’s up.