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I 100% agree, and you are not wrong either! Everyone has their own opinions, and I'm always open to and appreciate hearing what others have to say on the subject, so I most definitely appreciate your input on it! Thanks, Dave!
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Rep Rolex Serial Numbers
- Thread starter Magna_Graecia
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I 100% agree, and you are not wrong either! Everyone has their own opinions, and I'm always open to and appreciate hearing what others have to say on the subject, so I most definitely appreciate your input on it! Thanks, Dave!
alfonzo
Active Member
- 25/7/19
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I dig and each has a different experience. Since I got into this hobby no one that is not "in the know" has asked to see my watch Gen, Franken or Rep. I am not sure if it is because I wear them so well they just assume that it is gen and would feel that it's rude to ask or they just assume it's fake, either way I give zero weight to it. The game of make it gen is fun for me and that is all that is important and like I said the point of diminishing returns is only relative to the guy spending the money...I agree with Raddave that if it is important to you then hell yeah make sure that shit is right and tight!
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Well, that is an interesting topic...
I am a real noob, been here for not even 2 months. But as everyone here, rep world is so instantly fascinating that one can spend hours (and white nights) on forums such as RWIs to acquire the basic knowledge about what the reps are : customising fake lookalike metal gears to the best close-to-gen specs as possible.
Within a few reads here, one can quickly understand what to look for as flaws on a rep. And as soon as you get these flaws, that is all you see when you discover one on your rep. And that builds in your head that childish feeling of guilt, that makes you feel that everyone around you will see it as well from the end of the street, will spot you, will tell everyone you're a fraud and blabla...
But that's not how it works. Whever it's about SNs, 0.2 degrees angles on a dial's marker or a slight gap on SELs, only you and people from this hobby can actually spot those microflaws from close enough, and sometimes only on pictures. But hey, a "normal" watch enthusiast spoting a fake SN IRL? No way.
Before that, I think there is a much bigger flaw though, the one that can spread doubt in the mind of people around you and make them look closer to the "something's wrong with that watch", and this flaw isn't on the watch itself : the biggest flaw is you. The most obvious error when you don't want to get spotted, is to wear a watch that is clearly way above your lifestyle.
How can you pretend buying a 70ks Patek when earning 2000 bucks a month?
Credibility is the first rules IMO to choose your reps and wear them in public, but that's just me...
Envoyé de mon ELE-L29 en utilisant Tapatalk
I am a real noob, been here for not even 2 months. But as everyone here, rep world is so instantly fascinating that one can spend hours (and white nights) on forums such as RWIs to acquire the basic knowledge about what the reps are : customising fake lookalike metal gears to the best close-to-gen specs as possible.
Within a few reads here, one can quickly understand what to look for as flaws on a rep. And as soon as you get these flaws, that is all you see when you discover one on your rep. And that builds in your head that childish feeling of guilt, that makes you feel that everyone around you will see it as well from the end of the street, will spot you, will tell everyone you're a fraud and blabla...
But that's not how it works. Whever it's about SNs, 0.2 degrees angles on a dial's marker or a slight gap on SELs, only you and people from this hobby can actually spot those microflaws from close enough, and sometimes only on pictures. But hey, a "normal" watch enthusiast spoting a fake SN IRL? No way.
Before that, I think there is a much bigger flaw though, the one that can spread doubt in the mind of people around you and make them look closer to the "something's wrong with that watch", and this flaw isn't on the watch itself : the biggest flaw is you. The most obvious error when you don't want to get spotted, is to wear a watch that is clearly way above your lifestyle.
How can you pretend buying a 70ks Patek when earning 2000 bucks a month?
Credibility is the first rules IMO to choose your reps and wear them in public, but that's just me...
Envoyé de mon ELE-L29 en utilisant Tapatalk
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- 6/10/19
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I didn't say gen spec serial #'s. I said random serial numbers. Right now pretty much all of the ARF Sub-C's come with serial numbers that start with 9 and end with J2R0. I, and all of you, now know that any Sub-C you handle in person that has a serial # with this type of sequence is highly likely a fake. Try to do the same with a Noob. You can't because Noob uses truly random serials from my understanding. At least with other flaws there is always a question of "idk, that pearl looked off, but maybe it was just the lighting." If you spot a Sub-C that starts with 9 and ends with J2R0, then there is no question in your mind regarding what it is, lighting/angles or not.
I'm not expecting a rep Rolex to have a gen serial # that allows me to walk into a Rolex dealer and have it come back as valid if they run it in their system, come on. I'm asking for random serial #'s that prevent what in my opinion is an easy callout. I'm sorry, but you can mod your watch to the end of time with gen parts, but if I'm a colleague of yours that acts like I'm so delighted by your watch and kindly asks if you don't mind if I take a look at it because I haven't been able to handle one in RL since all the dealers have no sports models available, you can either look super sketchy and awkward by saying "no, my watch is my watch, nobody touches my watch but me", or you can hand the watch over for me to see your serial knowing full well about ARF's and go "oh, this is an ARF rep. Nevermind I thought you had a gen", then hand it back to you while you get embarrassed.
It's not about wanting gen serial #'s or scamming people. It's about preventing callouts, which I believe we all try to strive for by wanting a watch that is as close to gen as possible. Hence why this forum scrutinizes flaws so much, and why people dump hundreds upon hundreds into modding with gen parts. If noob can prevent this simple callout by doing random serial #'s, then so can the other factories. I don't think it's asking for too much in a rep since 1 rep factory has already been doing it for years now.
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Haha I 100% agree! I really love the ice blue/glacier dials that only come on VERY expensive Rolex's like the Day-Date and Daytona platinums, but if I bought a rep of these (as good as they are), I would get instantly called out. I make good money, but I don't drive an Aventador and live in the Hollywood Hills, so I don't have the context for this watch.
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Agreed, everyone has different experiences. My experiences haven't involved anyone wanting to see my watch because they were wondering if it was gen or not. It was more-so that they assumed it was gen and actually just loved the watch and wanted to handle it. There are a lot of people out there that have seen Sub-C's in photos and videos and absolutely love them, but never handled a real one because how can you unless you know someone that owns one? You gonna go to the dealer that has absolutely no sport models in the showcase? So if they spotted one on the wrist of their colleague they might compliment it and go "wow, is that a Sub? Man I've had my eye on one of those for the longest time. How long did you wait for it? Or did you buy it grey market and pay a pretty penny? Do you mind if I looked at it? I've never handled a real one before. Oh wow, this is heavy, damn. Wait, is this an ARF rep? I just know they all have serials that tend to start with a 9 and end with J2R0 like yours. Oh ok so it's a rep, I thought it was gen, my bad." Now you feel embarassed.
efajri
Put Some Respect On My Name
You seem to have a very good knowledge or idea on how to elevate the “realness” of fake rolexes. However, general population really don’t care what you wear tbh unless you constantly hang out with a group of watch enthusiasts. Even many gen owners have no clue which gen and which rep.
All I can say is that you can always franken the watch. Find a good builder then have a gen case, dial and crystal to build your franken. No need to have gen spring bars or screws as no one will see those. Your franken should be good as gen and you will look like a real millionaire.
Sent from my iPhone using RWI
All I can say is that you can always franken the watch. Find a good builder then have a gen case, dial and crystal to build your franken. No need to have gen spring bars or screws as no one will see those. Your franken should be good as gen and you will look like a real millionaire.
Sent from my iPhone using RWI
+1
However,
as I had one time the chance to talk to "someone" from AR fabric,
I get told that they use this type of serials for the purpose that the watch could be easier spotted as a replica .
Turns out that they are more worried that "fakes" could be sold as "gen" than I expected.
(Happens all the time since)
Weird
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Thanks. I agree, general population doesn't even know what's on your wrist. I've had people think the watch on my wrist looks nice and lean over while saying "that's a nice watch!" Then as soon as they were close enough to read "ROLEX" they go "oh wow, that's a Rolex? No wonder!"
My sentiment had to do more with the type of situation that I explained in my reply to alfonzo. Having random serial #'s would save you some serious embarrassment from that type of scenario. They don't need to be gen #'s, just random. At least with other flaws they can be very hard to spot without having a gen side by side to compare with, so even a colleague at your office who knows about watches and reps might not have the confidence to outright call you out. I certainly wouldn't. But with a well-known rep serial sequence, that's just an easy callout. No need to have a gen side by side or the right angle or lighting conditions. Your serial starts with 9 and ends with J2R0, and you're out of here! lol
shortlegs
Active Member
- 31/5/19
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I think this is the first time I have ever seen anyone complain about the serial number as a tell. Like, really? Anyone who knows that a certain serial number means its a rep, would also be able to tell it's a rep from all of the other more obvious tells, tells that could be noticed from way further than anyone could read the serial number.
I totally understand if a hardcore rep enthusiast or expert finds that the serial number is an issue, because they are in the game for the most gen like rep. But to say it's an issue because it's an obvious tell, is really pushing it I think.
Forgive me if I'm being presumptive, but your fixation with this and your worry of being called out probably stems from your insecurities of wearing a rep? I was like this before, obsessed with every flaw because I was worried they will give me away, but I've gradually learnt to just wear and enjoy the rep for what it is. In the immortalized words of Elsa, "let it go..."
I totally understand if a hardcore rep enthusiast or expert finds that the serial number is an issue, because they are in the game for the most gen like rep. But to say it's an issue because it's an obvious tell, is really pushing it I think.
Forgive me if I'm being presumptive, but your fixation with this and your worry of being called out probably stems from your insecurities of wearing a rep? I was like this before, obsessed with every flaw because I was worried they will give me away, but I've gradually learnt to just wear and enjoy the rep for what it is. In the immortalized words of Elsa, "let it go..."
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Really?? Well that makes a lot of sense then if this is the case! They accomplished their goal then, but at the same time it makes it more difficult for those in the community that are honest and just want their rep to be as difficult as possible to callout as being a rep. I would think that this is why people go the extra mile in swapping parts and such. Thanks for this post!
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I think this is the first time I have ever seen anyone complain about the serial number as a tell. Like, really? Anyone who knows that a certain serial number means its a rep, would also be able to tell it's a rep from all of the other more obvious tells, tells that could be noticed from way further than anyone could read the serial number.
I totally understand if a hardcore rep enthusiast or expert finds that the serial number is an issue, because they are in the game for the most gen like rep. But to say it's an issue because it's an obvious tell, is really pushing it I think.
Forgive me if I'm being presumptive, but your fixation with this and your worry of being called out probably stems from your insecurities of wearing a rep? I was like this before, obsessed with every flaw because I was worried they will give me away, but I've gradually learnt to just wear and enjoy the rep for what it is. In the immortalized words of Elsa, "let it go..."
That's my point though. Anyone that spots that the tip of the leg of the "R" on your V2 Daytona 116500 bezel is not as per gen is most definitely going to spot a well-known rep serial sequence, so then why does the forum sweat miniscule flaws like that and overlook one as huge as an obvious rep serial #? Like I said in my reply to efajri, at least with other flaws they can actually be pretty hard to spot without having a gen side-by-side to compare with, even with rep snobs like us on this forum. Sorry, but if you're looking at an ARF Sub-C that a colleague handed to you at work and you don't have a gen side-by-side to compare with, then you can easily overlook something like the pearl being not quite the right color, something that people constantly scrutinize on this forum, and you're not going to have the balls to call them out when it can be a complete mistake. With a spotted rep serial sequence there's no questioning it. It's black and white. It starts with 9 and ends with J2R0 and you know it's most likely fake.
I've worn reps for over 20 years now, so confidence was never an issue. My first was a super crappy DJ that had a quartz movement and a plastic crystal when it was definitely supposed to be an automatic movement with a sapphire crystal. It was laughable. At least with my next rep I stepped up to an almost-$200 Day-Date that actually had an automatic movement and was quite decent for the year 2001. I still didn't have the context for being able to afford this watch though, so aside from the many flaws, anyone who knew me knew I couldn't afford the real thing. I never cared. I just see how far reps have come, and I want them to get even better and as close to gen as they possibly can. Isn't that the goal of everyone on this forum? To have a rep that passes the auth test so good that there is no way it can get called out on your wrist or by a colleague that handles it because they were intrigued and wanted to look at it? If so, then Noob is doing the better job as far as serials go. ARF is beating Noob in the overall quality of their Subs though, so it's a shame that they can't get up their serial-game. This is just my 2 cents, but as we can see in this thread, everyone has their own opinions on it.
shortlegs
Active Member
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The number of people who knows about the serif issue on Daytona bezels (which is the single biggest and easiest way to tell it is a Noob rep), and how this can be easily seen at an arm's length away.
vs
The number of people who knows what rep serial numbers are, and how this can only be seen up close and after tilting the rep at an angle?
And you call the former minuscule, while calling the latter an obvious tell?
I don't know what to say anymore.. :idontno:
vs
The number of people who knows what rep serial numbers are, and how this can only be seen up close and after tilting the rep at an angle?
And you call the former minuscule, while calling the latter an obvious tell?
I don't know what to say anymore.. :idontno:
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Of course because one is larger and the other is tiny, but really I'm just using this as ONE example. There are tons of other miniscule flaws that are well known on specific reps, but that are still quite difficult to spot or notice until you have a gen side-by-side to compare with. Anyway, you disregarded my scenario that I have repeated numerous times. You keep assuming that the only way someone can ever see your watch is on your wrist. Read the scenario that I stated in a number of my replies on here. It's really not difficult at all to imagine this type of scenario taking place. I've had it happen numerous times, and I've even seen it happen with other people. Not being called out, but I mean having someone notice your watch and asking if they can take a look at it. It's like a colleague at work loving the new car you just got and saying how they had been eyeing the exact same model and asking if they could sit inside. You're not going to be a douchebag and say "nah, you look too scummy to sit in my car." You're going to say "absolutely!" This is a colleague from the office. Not some stranger. If you work at a large office, or even a small one, then you really don't know if there is another RWI poster working there or even a Rolex enthusiast that perhaps even hates reps and is one of those guys that thinks fake watches are for fake people, and they actually peruse these forums just to learn how to spot reps. This can apply to any other place as well, like a college. Maybe you go to a college and have a class with someone that is also an RWI poster, or as I said previously, a rep-hating Rolex enthusiast. Now unless you reply with "thanks, it's a fake" to anyone that compliments your watch and even asks if they could try it on, then it's assumed that you're generally passing it as real. That's the point of reps. They're supposed to pass as real for personal use, not to scam people during a sale of course. I doubt the majority in this forum tell people they know that their rep is indeed a rep. I hope that people replying against my sentiment can finally understand.
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If you have the watch in your hand, or very close to you, then all Rolex reps have flaws that tell you they are reps - and it's nothing to do with serial numbers.
No rep maker has ever made a dial with the same print quality as Rolex - I'm not talking about the noobs favorite subject, font..
All rep bezel inserts are recognizable as rep - from 4 digit to 6 digit.
Rep lume never looks like gen lume.
I've never seen a rep crown that looks even slightly like a gen.
Just about every noob on here will think the JF 93250 on sale on eBay is gen, when in fact it's full of flaws - and it has nothing to do with serial numbers.
Everybody was talking about the font, spacing etc on the JF 16610 LV dial when it came out, none of them noticed that the printing looked like watercolors and that it could be spotted from 6 ft away that it was a rep. The finish on the case too is well below the standards of a genuine Rolex.
There are plenty of other 'tells' too - depending on the model.
Having random serial numbers won't change a thing if the person looking at your watch has the right knowledge.
Reducing it down to measurable factors - random serial numbers, font etc, is pointless, it does nothing to make you watch uncalloutable - except to those with little to know watch knowledge.
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lol like watercolors. I completely understand what you're saying, but as you said yourself, it won't change a thing IF the person has the right knowledge, and herein is where the issue lies. How much knowledge do you need to have to spot a super rep, especially a franken super rep, that has miniscule flaws that don't have to do with the serial number? Quite a bit! Even experts can have a difficult time if they don't have a gen side-by-side to compare with. If anyone is going to be aware of these flaws, it's going to be experts that study the watches, and people that post on and read up on this forum. How many people in this forum will absolutely 100% spot a well-frankened super rep in hand without a gen to compare with side-by-side? Even if they have read up on the subject. I would say not that many. It's difficult to do, and it really takes experience. However, now that anyone reading this thread knows that ARF Sub-C's have serials that begin with 9 and end with J2R0, how many can 100% guaranteed spot a well-frankened ARF Sub-C when handling one in hand? EVERYONE! It doesn't take experience on learning the finite details. It's learning the serial # sequence 1 time and now you know. The franken ARF has gen crystal, gen hands, gen bezel, maybe even a gen bracelet? COOL! The serial beginning with 9 and ending with J2R0 says its insta-fake. This is my point.
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You are going around in circles with you nonsensical explanations and justifications - go around any faster and you risk disappearing up your own asshole.
Unsubscribed from this drivel.
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It's not going around in circles, you're just not willing to accept someone else's point of view. You have tunnel vision and only see your way as the right way. What I said is accurate. You need to have quite a bit of experience to unconditionally spot miniscule flaws on reps, especially without having a gen side-by-side to compare with, and believe it or not, even gens can have flaws. I remember reading a post on here that stated "If gen buyers received macro QC photos from dealers, they would never sell any watches!" I 100% agree with that sentiment. Look at a gen under macro and you're probably going to notice some things that can appear funky. That being said, how much experience do you need to spot a rep serial # sequence? NONE! You learn it 1 time and now you can spot it every single time without a doubt. No need for right lighting, right angles, or having a gen to compare with side-by-side. You see a serial that goes 9-randomnumbers-J2R0? It's fake!
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