So, as someone who has collected watches since the early 90s, worked on watches since the mid 90s, and did it professionally for 13 years; I look at these a little differently than most people.
I'm (like all of us) attracted to a watch because of it's general form, dial layout, hand shape, features, etc., but I also spend a lot of time looking at all of the parts through a loupe. The last fake I bought until recently was at least 10 years ago. I was pretty impressed with the quality of these back then, but there was still a lot of novelty factor in it; Getting something I could put gen parts on and fool myself enough to enjoy wearing it was fun. Prior to discovering this underground high-end fake thing, almost every fake I saw was total garbage. These had reached a point where none of them held a candle to the genuines, but were close enough to enjoy as long as I didn't look at them through my loupe.
Fast forward to now. I just bought an Omega SPECTRE with the new "clone" movement, and a Korean Chanel J12 for my girlfriend. I have a few others still coming.
I am completely blown away at the leaps ahead in general and finish quality on everything. Including the movement in the Omega.
I haven't torn it down yet like I intended, because it came timing at -3 sec per day. It's 12 seconds slow at 7 days on the wrist. This is chronometer grade accuracy. The finish quality on all the visible parts is hovers between ETA Elabore & Top grade, and I don't expect to find any different when I pull it apart. The timing says a lot about the finish already. The external finish is also impressive, the case, crown and tube are convincingly genuine. The AR is extremely good, and really helps to sell it.The dial print suffers a bit, and the bracelet isn't radiused in spots that make it feel a bit wrong to the hand when manipulated off the wrist, but it is visually extremely close to the genuine even under a loupe. All of the engraving and etching is crisp and correct looking, the polished flats are flat, and the brushing is precise and perfect. The bezel clicks didn't feel great either, but I improved it quite a bit by cleaning up the detent & polishing the teeth. On the wrist it feels and appears genuine to the naked eye, and I'm pretty picky.
I did pull the Chanel apart, and aside from the timing bezel click mechanism being kind of cheap, and the ETA quartz movement not being quite as nice as I would expect; if you walked in and dropped one on my bench I would have sized it or swapped a battery without it crossing my mind that it might be a fake. (I'm not real familiar with Chanel, though.) The dial, case, clasp and bracelet are fantastic.
What I'm getting at is this: The Chinese are getting very close to being able to produce something that is near indistinguishable to the touch and totally indistinguishable with the unaided eye. I believe this market has driven some of the attention to detail that is going into these now and will filter into the production of legitimate products.
ETA controlling parts & movements, Omega making it harder, Rolex doing what they have always done- all are pushing a need for aftermarket parts that are acceptable quality for independent watchmakers & consumers. The Chinese are very soon going to be able to fill this need with parts that are near perfect copies perfectly worthy of replacing their Swiss equivalent. When they hit that point, we're going to see an explosion of micro-brands that use Chinese everything, that are finish & function equivalents of watches of Swiss manufacture at a fraction of the price.
I'm not sure exactly where that will leave the Swiss watch industry, but it's going to shake things up in a big way. The Chinese will have a very difficult time with the cachet thing, but I have a feeling that will be helped along by a small manufacturer with a good reputation already, and something to prove. There are several that were hurt by ETAs crackdown, all it will take is one to dare to use a Chinese produced chronometer of original design and have success to start a snowball. High end watches are micromechanical jewelry, and it will be very difficult for the Chinese to develop any kind of brand themselves that will be taken seriously by the Rolex crowd, because as we all know, many non-watch people own these as a visible status symbol. But the quality will be there.
I'm excited to see what these fakes look like in 5 more years. (If we can still buy them, but that's another discussion.)
I'm (like all of us) attracted to a watch because of it's general form, dial layout, hand shape, features, etc., but I also spend a lot of time looking at all of the parts through a loupe. The last fake I bought until recently was at least 10 years ago. I was pretty impressed with the quality of these back then, but there was still a lot of novelty factor in it; Getting something I could put gen parts on and fool myself enough to enjoy wearing it was fun. Prior to discovering this underground high-end fake thing, almost every fake I saw was total garbage. These had reached a point where none of them held a candle to the genuines, but were close enough to enjoy as long as I didn't look at them through my loupe.
Fast forward to now. I just bought an Omega SPECTRE with the new "clone" movement, and a Korean Chanel J12 for my girlfriend. I have a few others still coming.
I am completely blown away at the leaps ahead in general and finish quality on everything. Including the movement in the Omega.
I haven't torn it down yet like I intended, because it came timing at -3 sec per day. It's 12 seconds slow at 7 days on the wrist. This is chronometer grade accuracy. The finish quality on all the visible parts is hovers between ETA Elabore & Top grade, and I don't expect to find any different when I pull it apart. The timing says a lot about the finish already. The external finish is also impressive, the case, crown and tube are convincingly genuine. The AR is extremely good, and really helps to sell it.The dial print suffers a bit, and the bracelet isn't radiused in spots that make it feel a bit wrong to the hand when manipulated off the wrist, but it is visually extremely close to the genuine even under a loupe. All of the engraving and etching is crisp and correct looking, the polished flats are flat, and the brushing is precise and perfect. The bezel clicks didn't feel great either, but I improved it quite a bit by cleaning up the detent & polishing the teeth. On the wrist it feels and appears genuine to the naked eye, and I'm pretty picky.
I did pull the Chanel apart, and aside from the timing bezel click mechanism being kind of cheap, and the ETA quartz movement not being quite as nice as I would expect; if you walked in and dropped one on my bench I would have sized it or swapped a battery without it crossing my mind that it might be a fake. (I'm not real familiar with Chanel, though.) The dial, case, clasp and bracelet are fantastic.
What I'm getting at is this: The Chinese are getting very close to being able to produce something that is near indistinguishable to the touch and totally indistinguishable with the unaided eye. I believe this market has driven some of the attention to detail that is going into these now and will filter into the production of legitimate products.
ETA controlling parts & movements, Omega making it harder, Rolex doing what they have always done- all are pushing a need for aftermarket parts that are acceptable quality for independent watchmakers & consumers. The Chinese are very soon going to be able to fill this need with parts that are near perfect copies perfectly worthy of replacing their Swiss equivalent. When they hit that point, we're going to see an explosion of micro-brands that use Chinese everything, that are finish & function equivalents of watches of Swiss manufacture at a fraction of the price.
I'm not sure exactly where that will leave the Swiss watch industry, but it's going to shake things up in a big way. The Chinese will have a very difficult time with the cachet thing, but I have a feeling that will be helped along by a small manufacturer with a good reputation already, and something to prove. There are several that were hurt by ETAs crackdown, all it will take is one to dare to use a Chinese produced chronometer of original design and have success to start a snowball. High end watches are micromechanical jewelry, and it will be very difficult for the Chinese to develop any kind of brand themselves that will be taken seriously by the Rolex crowd, because as we all know, many non-watch people own these as a visible status symbol. But the quality will be there.
I'm excited to see what these fakes look like in 5 more years. (If we can still buy them, but that's another discussion.)