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RAIDS happening - message from reddit dealer

bertieng

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I heard that Rolex were getting Daytona's,Subs sent to then for service and were found to be reps,so reps were getting in the gen market


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If this is real, then there will be no hopes for high quality reps again.
Surely Rolex will have extreme eagle eyes on the rep market if they are really receiving reps asking for service.
Just can't believe those people will be so stupid in sending their reps to RSC
 

Uhr70

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If this is real, then there will be no hopes for high quality reps again.
Surely Rolex will have extreme eagle eyes on the rep market if they are really receiving reps asking for service.
Just can't believe those people will be so stupid in sending their reps to RSC

I honestly don’t think they knew they were sending in reps. My understanding is that buyers were duped and paid gen price for what turned out to be reps.
 
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CurioLeo

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Well, the Noob Daytona A4130 and the VSF Submariner 3135 movements have now evolved to the point that there is a very high likelihood of numerous replicas circulating in the legitimate secondhand market. Once that happens, identifying replicas will get even more complicated as there will be a chance that a replica is being compared to another replica incorrectly assumed to be genuine. That's the sort of shit Rolex clearly wouldn't tolerate under the heading of "copying is the highest form of flattery" and any government seen to be supporting or at the very least tolerating such high level of replication (implicitly or otherwise) would face criminal ramifications. Not sure exactly what that would entail however I imagine it would have significant material impact. As the young folk say, shit got real. Pretty sure it isn't a coincidence that the factories being targeted are Noob and VSF.
 
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Fergulator72

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I honestly don’t think they knew they were sending in reps. My understanding is that buyers were duped and paid gen price for what turned out to be reps.
Exactly,they had no idea they were reps,they probably had box and papers

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tommikeson

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It doesn't make sense that China gives a shit about Rolex or any other manufacturer.

They've been boosting their military by stealing technology from the US for years. You'd think that it would be more important to not mess with their relationship with the US. Why would they care about their relationship with the luxury watch industry?
 
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CurioLeo

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It doesn't make sense that China gives a shit about Rolex or any other manufacturer.

They've been boosting their military by stealing technology from the US for years. You'd think that it would be more important to not mess with their relationship with the US. Why would they care about their relationship with the luxury watch industry?

Any idea what the biggest luxury goods market is in the world and how much tax foreign companies pay there ? Go and do some research and let me know how you go. While you are at it, look up VAT rate in China
 
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Tribefan

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Any idea what the biggest luxury goods market is in the world and how much tax foreign companies pay there ? Go and do some research and let me know how you go. While you are at it, look up VAT rate in China

Yeah, umm, I don't think this works like you think it does. Chinese government is worried about investment inflows and export outflows. Swiss made watches contribute to neither. VAT is an internal tax which means nothing to a sovereign that issues it's own currency. It actually destroys money and is a policy tool to regulate resource allocation.

The Chinese party may be focused on this for political reasons, but from a economic and monetary perspective, Rolex isn't worth two shits to the Chinese economy.
 

CurioLeo

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Yeah, umm, I don't think this works like you think it does. Chinese government is worried about investment inflows and export outflows. Swiss made watches contribute to neither. VAT is an internal tax which means nothing to a sovereign that issues it's own currency. It actually destroys money and is a policy tool to regulate resource allocation.

The Chinese party may be focused on this for political reasons, but from a economic and monetary perspective, Rolex isn't worth two shits to the Chinese economy.

Read away as to why counterfeit goods is a huge problem for Rolex in China .....

https://daxueconsulting.com/rolex-china-chinese-luxury-watch-market/

And yes, VAT is a tool to regulate resource allocation. However, suggesting it is irrelevant in a country with a population of 1.4 billion people along with aspirations of transitioning 70% of its population to middle class where relatively affordable luxury goods ( like a Rolex watch ) is a status symbol is completely missing social implications of macro economic decisions. I assure you, Rolex is worth a lot more than two shits to the Chinese economy. Raids on the two factories that make the best Rolex counterfeit goods is not a coincidence.
 
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gsxin

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Heard from a contact in Guangzhou (the mecca of Chinese watches) that one of the problems has to do with the way parts are made.

As you all (should) know the "factories" we use as reference (noob, VS, ARF, H, etc) are not the makers of all of the parts that go into their watches, some may not even manufacture any parts and just assemble them, they source parts from other (actual) factories, these last factories make parts for all kind of watches: replicas, homages and legit ones alike.
So what happened (or so my contact says) is that these big factories got raided/fined/closed, creating a shortage of vital parts for some replicas (for some reason Rolex seems to have been particularly targeted).
This explains why most factories are struggling to come up with watches, including small factories that sell the 2813/cheaper replicas, as some of these are closed as well (YZ/YT, King, etc.)

As to the reasons of the raids, that is beyond anyone to say, but my contact says "they got too serious, and government cares about copyright".

Whatever the reason (s), it does appear that the replica industry may have just passed its "golden years" as things will not be the same again, at least not in the PRC.
 
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Uhr70

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Heard from a contact in Guangzhou (the mecca of Chinese watches) that one of the problems has to do with the way parts are made.

As you all (should) know the "factories" we use as reference (noob, VS, ARF, H, etc) are not the makers of all of the parts that go into their watches, some may not even manufacture any parts and just assemble them, they source parts from other (actual) factories, these last factories make parts for all kind of watches: replicas, homages and legit ones alike.
So what happened (or so my contact says) is that these big factories got raided/fined/closed, creating a shortage of vital parts for some replicas (for some reason Rolex seems to have been particularly targeted).
This explains why most factories are struggling to come up with watches, including small factories that sell the 2813/cheaper replicas, as some of these are closed as well (YZ/YT, King, etc.)

As to the reasons of the raids, that is beyond anyone to say, but my contact says "they got too serious, and government cares about copyright".

Whatever the reason (s), it does appear that the replica industry may have just passed its "golden years" as things will not be the same again, at least not in the PRC.

Thank you for sharing. Makes sense.
 

Alan Bourdillion Traherne

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Whatever the reason (s), it does appear that the replica industry may have just passed its "golden years" as things will not be the same again, at least not in the PRC.

Hmmm, well... its a good thing I'm set for reps with a Sub, YM, DJ41, and Daytona. Heh-heh.

(WAIT! Did I just say that??)
 
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daytona4130

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Whatever the reason (s), it does appear that the replica industry may have just passed its "golden years" as things will not be the same again, at least not in the PRC.

i think there can't be any good factory that can built so accurate parts in indonesia india or africa...
 

bertieng

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Thailand maybe.
They used to have the renowned MBK
All my vintage Rollies are MBKs and Viets. Of course the cost is higher than those massively produced in China.
My personal view is that don't expect there will ever be another VSF comes up again. The magic is now long gone.
 
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ETAWatchlover

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I feel like the dynamic of this forum just died with these factory's .

For now we have to hold on to the watches we still have and cherish that we didn't have to spend 60.000$ on this hobby
 
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YellowFin

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I feel like the dynamic of this forum just died with these factory's .

For now we have to hold on to the watches we still have and cherish that we didn't have to spend 60.000$ on this hobby

Sort of - only managed to get two new reps since April. Most requests in the meantime ended with "Can't get that model at the moment. No idea when they're back." :sad:
 

ellocity

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but on the contrary I see a nice lively m2m, as soon as a pam comes up it is stormed, and then it's nice because many old reps are re-emerging ..
 

ssouthall6

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Thailand maybe.
They used to have the renowned MBK
All my vintage Rollies are MBKs and Viets. Of course the cost is higher than those massively produced in China.
My personal view is that don't expect there will ever be another VSF comes up again. The magic is now long gone.
I think so as well sadly. I can't even be bothered to finish frankens, I've had watches with modders for the best part of a year and I can't even be bothered to chase them.

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