RAIDS happening - message from reddit dealer

[Repmaster1337]

From reddit user close to factories.

VSF isn't coming back anytime soon

Let me start this with the most anticipated one, VSF isn't opening back anytime soon. As of now, VSF boss is currently in jail, and the "bail" or "bribe" amount hasn't been settled. The factory isn't producing or repairing anything. They aren't shipping much orders or just low quantities (mainly lesser known VSF Omegas). Any VSF Rolex is a "rare artifact" nowadays.

On positive note, there are plans of other factories to make VSF Rolex 41mm Submariners but the movement may not be the VS3235. It's currently unknown but there are some plans of other factories to produce some 1266... models. Perhaps they will use a 2824 movement but that ruins the "72 hour power reserve" which was a phenomenal achievement from VSF.

VSF Datejust is more or less gone as well. Dial manufacturer got raided and no factory is planning to make a competitor as of my knowledge.

​

My thoughts: My current estimate of when VSF will go back is (earliest) is at October to November (Possibly Next Year even). This is very conservative and hard to honestly say. Even if VSF goes back, they could get raided again if they're not careful since Chinese cops usually like to raid factories before big holidays so they have some "pocket money" or demands of Brand Owners like Rolex or Omega.

​

Are there VSF Submariners available to buy????

Unfortunately, There is little to none available. Any are just old stock and demand a Premium. No dealer in China sells this for the same low price as before especially with the scarcity.

There are some alternatives in the market such as CLEAN, ZF, and others but none of them have the "edges" as VSF imho. The finishing on VSF Movements are just on another level compared to other factories. Guess, it's up to your preference to where you can settle with and live with.

​

CLEAN Factory Rolex GMTs "Release Date"

While, the first few CLEAN GMTs have been released a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, supply is very low. CLEAN originally stated they will ship out around June 20-25 but have since then delayed to the "end of this month". Raids must have made things in China moved slower than normal.

Why the delay?

Not an advertisement for Mirotime. Just couldn't find a picture in time lol.


It's not actually they are having trouble making the watch head. It's just the bracelet waiting to be produced. Bracelet supply is a bit short so that's why there's pictures of Clean Factory GMT Heads only without the bracelet.

​

This is merely some information I gotten from multiple Chinese dealer I'm working and communicating with. I'm sure some TD's here will share the same sentiment.

​

Tell me your thoughts in the comments below and hope I helped someone out!

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[JayBee0815]

Tell me your thoughts in the comments below and hope I helped someone out!

That doesnt supprise me and fits to my last information that says, that the VSF-Boss(es) are on the run. They played the Rep-Game too hard, offering great Rolex-Reps with individual serial numbers, that where sold from some chinese dealers as Gens in China. There the problems started and that has nothing to do with us. Its more or less a chinese thing and for me it is impossible to make predictions of the future of VSF or their technical features. Maybee it would be wiser, to stop this serial-number - and paper- and cerficiate-bullshit.

 

[BOSSK]

- and paper- and cerficiate-bullshit.

Cannot agree more! The need for these is to scam, and those few ‘good intentioned’ buyers who just want a complete set need to realise that too and suck it up. We need to stop the need for matching papers in this hobby ASAP. I think this is the real reason for the major crackdown.

 

[peter4ptv]

Cannot agree more! The need for these is to scam, and those few ‘good intentioned’ buyers who just want a complete set need to realise that too and suck it up. We need to stop the need for matching papers in this hobby ASAP. I think this is the real reason for the major crackdown.

Good luck……..

 

[sfbatman787]

Good luck……..

+1. There were fakes and there will always be fakes.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[Fergulator72]

That doesnt supprise me and fits to my last information that says, that the VSF-Boss(es) are on the run. They played the Rep-Game too hard, offering great Rolex-Reps with individual serial numbers, that where sold from some chinese dealers as Gens in China. There the problems started and that has nothing to do with us. Its more or less a chinese thing and for me it is impossible to make predictions of the future of VSF or their technical features. Maybee it would be wiser, to stop this serial-number - and paper- and cerficiate-bullshit.

Exactly,who buys a rep and needs matching papers etc, people trying to scam in my opinion,it's not the fact that the reps are so good,it's the fact that watches are getting sent to Rolex for service by legit buyers and are found to be fake

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[domthedon030]

I wasn't even expecting my VSF to come with all those accessories to be honest. I was surprised when I saw them in the package. Never had them with a rep before this one.

I was quite taken back at the quality and eye to detail of the warranty card and even the model info swing tag. It's all exceptionally close to the real thing and would fool a lot of dealers let alone the general public. Even the bezel protector looks exactly like the real thing..

If I can take anything from this rep, it's that Rolex aren't just overpriced, they're drastically over priced. Their 116610LN isn't really worth any more than £2,000. The other £5,500 is purely because of the Rolex name. We all know that anyway I guess and we're all happy to shell out that kind of money because of the name and history behind their pieces but when you can buy the near enough same thing for £260 it really does make you think.

Just goes to show though, as soon as something of this quality was produced, Rolex had no choice but to bring out the big guns!

 

[derjenigewelcher]

If I can take anything from this rep, it's that Rolex aren't just overpriced, they're drastically over priced. Their 116610LN isn't really worth any more than £2,000. The other £5,500 is purely because of the Rolex name. We all know that anyway I guess and we're all happy to shell out that kind of money because of the name and history behind their pieces but when you can buy the near enough same thing for £260 it really does make you think.

Just goes to show though, as soon as something of this quality was produced, Rolex had no choice but to bring out the big guns!

What a BS.

An engineer (and there is / is not just one) who has been developing a watch for years, do you think these costs should not be included in the price of a Rolex?
Just the hours and the raw material and the marketing?

You have to dig deeper ...

 

[JayBee0815]

The other £5,500 is Purelyrik because of the Rolex name

Ok, thats completly OT. But I cant resist ;-)
Do you think the name is for free? How much would a VSF-Rep cost, if VSF would sponsor Roger Federer, the Wimbledon Tournement, the PGA-Tour and would buy thousands of full size advertisments in magazines all over the world every month? Think about it ;-)

 

[Uhr70]

Ok, thats completly OT. But I cant resist ;-)
Do you think the name is for free? How much would a VSF-Rep cost, if VSF would sponsor Roger Federer, the Wimbledon Tournement, the PGA-Tour and would buy thousands of full size advertisments in magazines all over the world every month? Think about it ;-)

The watches are great but we are fundamentally paying for the name and you’ve just confirmed it with your comment. From a strictly production/material standpoint they’re not worth what the manufacturer is asking, IMO. In today’s market and current pricing, I truly do feel like I am paying for the name and hype more than anything else. Just an example, up until 2016 I was buying GMT ceramic black for 5500 and BLNR for 7500 all day every day. And Daytonas for 9000, 116610 LV for 7500. And that’s just to name a few.

 

[domthedon030]

And for a watch that is made of relatively cheap raw materials and manufactured in mass on an assembly line, you don’t think £2000-3000 is a fair price taking into account all that you have mentioned above? I am strictly talking about the 116610. Their prices are a reflection of exclusivity.

They are overpriced for me. I personally wouldn’t part with £7500 for the gen but that’s just my opinion.

 

[thenut]

Most poeple Know about the price and Not the value. Brand building is very expensive.
If you want to cry about the Margin of a luxury watch, you better not Look at the textile or pharmaceutical industry

 

[Hazing]

Rolex prices are a reflection of many many many many things like history, hype, name, advertising, marketing, development, manufacturing, and performance as well.

I know many people look at a rep and gen side by side and because they can’t visually distinguish the watches, many people think they’re the same. They’re not. A Rolex is a high performance piece that is extremely accurate under the most intense situations for a lifetime of use. A replica is not nearly as sturdy or reliable or consistent. Not to mention vsf did not design and build the submariner, they copied it.

A replica straight out of a factory, even the best of factories, can’t perform nearly as well. And I’m not just talking about depth ratings.

Its ridiculious to put a Honda with a Ferrari logo on it next to a Ferrari and say the Ferrari is overpriced because they look the same.

I understand that because of the name as well as the development of computers, watches in general aren’t needed for high precision work they way they once were but to say a gen rolex is massively overpriced because a replica can fool someone who purchases the name alone, is silly and naive. And reading this thread… it looks like too many people are fooled by what is on their wrist.

(I mean yes they are overpriced esp on the grey market but let’s not be ridiculous. If a rolex could be purchased for under $1000 (and what many would consider a “reasonable price”) than people would not want these watches with such passion.

anyway, I just wanted to say that if you think a rep Rolex and a gen Rolex are ultimately the same thing then you need to learn.

 

[thenut]

THIS!!! You nailed it!

 

[JayBee0815]

The fair price of a watch is the ammount, buyers are ready to pay. And if you take this in account and take a look at the prices on grey market, the official prices for most Rolex watches are not too high but too low. Its simple as that.

 

[pt98765]

The most salient point here is the cost of R&D, design, innovation, marketing etc. Reps bypass that process by piggy-backing on the brands. This is one of the key differentials along with the quality of the components (904L steel etc is a relatively insignificant detail to copy...it's what's on the inside that's vastly different).

 

[RiffRalf]

The most salient point here is the cost of R&D, design, innovation, marketing .....

These are wind up watches. Early 20th century tech.
Every 20 years someone comes up with a new trick like an independent hour hand on a GMT or a parachrom spring.
Hardly cutting edge stuff.
A speedmaster was $2k in the late 60s in current day money I read somewhere. Even if a Rolex is so darn special it shouldn't cost more than $4k.

 

[Behike]

On its way from TD…

ARF

 

[DoChen1]

And for a watch that is made of relatively cheap raw materials and manufactured in mass on an assembly line, you don’t think £2000-3000 is a fair price taking into account all that you have mentioned above? I am strictly talking about the 116610. Their prices are a reflection of exclusivity.

They are overpriced for me. I personally wouldn’t part with £7500 for the gen but that’s just my opinion.

I thought that the COGS of a Rolex is approximately 20% list price whereby AD receives the watches at 50% of list price and 60% of the remainder goes for Marketing, R&D and overhead.

in other words, the Submariner reference 116610LN. Recommended retail price: €8500 actually costs about €1700 to make.
If one considers that labor costs for qualified watchmakers in Switzerland are astronomical and Swiss suppliers aren’t cheap either then an authentic Rolex would probably cost about €1000 to produce in China is authentic parts and machines were provided.

So the final COGS difference of GEN and REP is about a factor of 2-3 which doesn’t appear to be that unreasonable..

The real beneficiaries of Rolex prices are therefore the AD’s and the Marketing dept…

 

[AirSan]

From reddit user close to factories.

VSF isn't coming back anytime soon

Let me start this with the most anticipated one, VSF isn't opening back anytime soon. As of now, VSF boss is currently in jail, and the "bail" or "bribe" amount hasn't been settled. The factory isn't producing or repairing anything. They aren't shipping much orders or just low quantities (mainly lesser known VSF Omegas). Any VSF Rolex is a "rare artifact" nowadays.

On positive note, there are plans of other factories to make VSF Rolex 41mm Submariners but the movement may not be the VS3235. It's currently unknown but there are some plans of other factories to produce some 1266... models. Perhaps they will use a 2824 movement but that ruins the "72 hour power reserve" which was a phenomenal achievement from VSF.

VSF Datejust is more or less gone as well. Dial manufacturer got raided and no factory is planning to make a competitor as of my knowledge.

​

My thoughts: My current estimate of when VSF will go back is (earliest) is at October to November (Possibly Next Year even). This is very conservative and hard to honestly say. Even if VSF goes back, they could get raided again if they're not careful since Chinese cops usually like to raid factories before big holidays so they have some "pocket money" or demands of Brand Owners like Rolex or Omega.

​

Are there VSF Submariners available to buy????

Unfortunately, There is little to none available. Any are just old stock and demand a Premium. No dealer in China sells this for the same low price as before especially with the scarcity.

There are some alternatives in the market such as CLEAN, ZF, and others but none of them have the "edges" as VSF imho. The finishing on VSF Movements are just on another level compared to other factories. Guess, it's up to your preference to where you can settle with and live with.

​

CLEAN Factory Rolex GMTs "Release Date"

While, the first few CLEAN GMTs have been released a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, supply is very low. CLEAN originally stated they will ship out around June 20-25 but have since then delayed to the "end of this month". Raids must have made things in China moved slower than normal.

Why the delay?

Not an advertisement for Mirotime. Just couldn't find a picture in time lol.


It's not actually they are having trouble making the watch head. It's just the bracelet waiting to be produced. Bracelet supply is a bit short so that's why there's pictures of Clean Factory GMT Heads only without the bracelet.

​

This is merely some information I gotten from multiple Chinese dealer I'm working and communicating with. I'm sure some TD's here will share the same sentiment.

​

Tell me your thoughts in the comments below and hope I helped someone out!

Read More

Never heard about mirotime.
Are they td and what about reviews?

Normally I'm just buying VRF watches but since the raid, it's not possible to order from intime.
So hopefully I can get any information so I can find a TD to get the watches.

Thanks

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