Patek 5980 papers

[Thejoker]

Hi to all fellow members. I am coping with an issue, so i have an authentic patek 5980r with box and leather book, however i have lost my certificate when i was moving. The actual picture of the certificate i still have digitally, however as one can imagine the resell value has changed dramaticaly. The fact that it was serviced by patek with the corresponding invoice also does not seem to interess watch dealers as they just do not value the watch realistically without the actual physical certificate.

Is there any way to get a emtpy authentic patek paper? I would then just rewrite the purchase date and serial number as it’s written on the lost paper, to be able to get the watch’s real worth.

Any suggestions? I assume there are fake empty papers, however if its not 1/1 i will probably achieve the opposite of what im looking for.

 

[fnfalguy]

Why not get a letter of authentication from Patek?

 

[Alkay3]

Why not get a letter of authentication from Patek?

I was going to say the same thing. Write to Patek and tell them what you need.

 

[noskcajcp]

You'll likely need to send your watch to Patek to get the authorization letter. I had to do something similar with two Breitlings, which was a frustrating experience. Even when they had previous serviced one of the watches, they still required a physical authentication.

 

[asusundevils1971]

Is there any way to get a emtpy authentic patek paper? I would then just rewrite the purchase date and serial number as it’s written on the lost paper, to be able to get the watch’s real worth.

So you want to commit fraud for thousands of dollars That sounds like an amazing plan to get some jail time.

The watches real value is what you would receive without papers.

 

[noskcajcp]

Yea, I missed that parapgraph - that ain't happening.

 

[Thejoker]

i dont know why you guys are such moral knights. why is there even talk about papers and boxes on the website if you have such strong judgement, frankly i dont care about your opinion. i am not doing anything illegal, my watch is 100% legit. everything i have is completely legal and i dont try to sell disinformation. The backup paper what you are talking about the trader will accept but pay me 10k less. Dont pretend its nothing as if it wasnt you wouldnt be on this website in the first place. if you guys are frustrated look for your battle somewhere else if you cant be of service you can always ignore the topic

 

[Farslayer]

The Joker's pretty funny hahaha....

 

[Oh Crap]

i dont know why you guys are such moral knights. why is there even talk about papers and boxes on the website if you have such strong judgement, frankly i dont care about your opinion. i am not doing anything illegal, my watch is 100% legit. everything i have is completely legal and i dont try to sell disinformation. The backup paper what you are talking about the trader will accept but pay me 10k less. Dont pretend its nothing as if it wasnt you wouldnt be on this website in the first place. if you guys are frustrated look for your battle somewhere else if you cant be of service you can always ignore the topic

Well that escalated quickly...

 

[BIONONE]

i dont know why you guys are such moral knights. why is there even talk about papers and boxes on the website if you have such strong judgement, frankly i dont care about your opinion. i am not doing anything illegal, my watch is 100% legit. everything i have is completely legal and i dont try to sell disinformation. The backup paper what you are talking about the trader will accept but pay me 10k less. Dont pretend its nothing as if it wasnt you wouldnt be on this website in the first place. if you guys are frustrated look for your battle somewhere else if you cant be of service you can always ignore the topic

Grow some skin - if you‘ve nothing bad in mind you could laugh those comments off.

However - someone with the ability to purchase a 5980 should be able to contact patek, pay ~800 CHF to get a extract from the archives.

Why commit forgery when you can easily get it legally with just a little bit of patience and pocket money compared to the value of the watch.

…and yes - it is forgery even if you „had“ the original paper. And regarding your question about morality on here - you probably won‘t believe it anyways but on here we have a sense of integrity toward unsuspecting individuals who could become vicitims of fraud. This whole hobby is about the joy of watches for oneself - not to harm individuals.

 

[Thejoker]

Grow some skin - if you‘ve nothing bad in mind you could laugh those comments off.

However - someone with the ability to purchase a 5980 should be able to contact patek, pay ~800 CHF to get a extract from the archives.

Why commit forgery when you can easily get it legally with just a little bit of patience and pocket money compared to the value of the watch.

…and yes - it is forgery even if you „had“ the original paper. And regarding your question about morality on here - you probably won‘t believe it anyways but on here we have a sense of integrity toward unsuspecting individuals who could become vicitims of fraud. This whole hobby is about the joy of watches for oneself - not to harm individuals.

Like i said before, not having the first paper of which i DO have a picture of (digital picture that is), never mind getting an archive paper for traders they do not respect that paper as much, giving you easy 10/20% less for your watch. And as far as i remember we are in a replica watch forum. Where everything is forgery all your boxes papers and watches even frankensteins are forged. Buying a steak knife does not making you a potential murderer, so maybe i should not have asked here anything just i should have told you guys that i have a fetish for collecting watch papers and where can I get the best one? Would that be more acceptable for you? When you read all other threads i dont see any morality or integrity problems wearing fake items to mislead anybody pretending to be someone you arent? How about that integrity?

 

[Thejoker]

And by the way, you are assuming things that are not happening, i explicitely said that i DO have the service bill and the picture of my papers that have been purchased on MY name and I have lost it while moving to another house. So what victims of forgering are you talking about. Seriously get a life man

 

[Reaps]

How about this. Let's flip it around Since you're a Patek owner. You buy a Patek 2nd hand from a dealer with full papers and all of that. And then later find that the certificate that came with the watch wasn't actually the original, just a blank that the owner scribbled on info. Would you accept the watch?

It's forgery because you lost the original. And then instead of replacing it from the brand, you get a blank and scribble info on it yourself. The paper is not from Patek but from YOU. Idk what kind of mental gymnastics you have done to justify this but it isn't an original certificate.

Why don't you head over to watchuseek, or one of the gen watch forums and suggest this idea and see how they feel?

 

[bunny123]

And by the way, you are assuming things that are not happening, i explicitely said that i DO have the service bill and the picture of my papers that have been purchased on MY name and I have lost it while moving to another house. So what victims of forgering are you talking about. Seriously get a life man

That’s fine mate , I’ve been in the same situation , you just have to accept the fact you cannot get the real papers again and the value of the watch has gone down like you said 10-15% , it has to be archive now. Also , the watch needs to be older than 10 years , thats when you can apply for archive , there’s no other way !

 

[rolexianer]

I dont know you @Thejoker but whole thing smells strange. Plus the fact that you freak out immediately on every comment.

If you cant handle some criticism you shouldnt ask in a public forum!

 

[Jossé]

Like i said before, not having the first paper of which i DO have a picture of (digital picture that is), never mind getting an archive paper for traders they do not respect that paper as much, giving you easy 10/20% less for your watch. And as far as i remember we are in a replica watch forum. Where everything is forgery all your boxes papers and watches even frankensteins are forged. Buying a steak knife does not making you a potential murderer, so maybe i should not have asked here anything just i should have told you guys that i have a fetish for collecting watch papers and where can I get the best one? Would that be more acceptable for you? When you read all other threads i dont see any morality or integrity problems wearing fake items to mislead anybody pretending to be someone you arent? How about that integrity?

Take a deep breath and count to 10. People here are trying to help you find solutions so you can avoid getting sued for selling a GEN watch with papers that don’t belong to it. No one is judging you.

 

[Thejoker]

Well yes, unfortunately you are right. it needs to be 10 years old in order to apply for this certificate, mine is 2019 so need to wait too long. Never mind guys, thought someone was selling here papers (as im sure there are as they are selling all other things). By the way, if i write exactly what is on my original certificate the AD name and location is written, anyone can call and ask to verify wether or not it is the truth, so i dont have any moral problems, im sorry, i just dont. Im not tricking anyone into anything. Just the damn bastards AD don’t cooperate, which is sad, but the reality.

 

[Reaps]

Well yes, unfortunately you are right. it needs to be 10 years old in order to apply for this certificate, mine is 2019 so need to wait too long. Never mind guys, thought someone was selling here papers (as im sure there are as they are selling all other things). By the way, if i write exactly what is on my original certificate the AD name and location is written, anyone can call and ask to verify wether or not it is the truth, so i dont have any moral problems, im sorry, i just dont. Im not tricking anyone into anything. Just the damn bastards AD don’t cooperate, which is sad, but the reality.

Then you should state with every buyer than the certificate is not the original but a blank sheet that you wrote some words on it. with Because YOU may not have a problem, but OTHER collectors might. Be up front about it.

https://www.patek.com/en/contact/frequently-asked-questions/watch-authenticity

Patek literally states they will never reissue a certificate of origin again for a watch.

So you make a new one for your watch that is not from Patek. And you pretend it's ok because it's authentic paper. It's not the original.

You are committing fraud if you present everything as original from Patek, when in reality, the certificate is not. The law does not care about your moral indifference. You present the paper as genuine/original from Patek, but it's scribbled by you. The original is lost. You forged a copy even if the paper is "authentic" but blank, it is not written by the manufacturer.

So for you, if someone sold you something like this, you would be totally ok right?

And then you do this because you don't want to take the loss of a $15,000 or whatever the cost is. So you do it for financial gain.

You think the certificate is related to some kind of authentication matter, it partially is, but partially because collectors who buy this watch want a full original set from Patek. So you commit some grey zone forgery (even if the paper is authentic from Patek, it is not the original, nor written by Patek/manufacturer, but by you scribbling in some info) to sell the whole set at a higher price. If that's not forgery to commit fraud, I don't know what is. Literally forging a copy of a document that was lost so that a watch set can be sold at a higher price.

 

[Mjh2k4]

So if it'll cost you $10,000 to NOT have any authentication why not then send it for a service for $1000chf? At that point you'd have service papers which serve as an authentication and a value add as the watch is serviced.

 

[P..DR..D]

Not that the established members need reminding, they know why, but any newbies reading this, and wondering why we, as a community, come down so heavy on any sort of doctoring of gen papers, or even discussion around them, this is worth a read.

I can't actually imagine how s!ck I would feel had I been the guy above after dropping 17k & subsequently discovering it was a rep.

We don't even allow the sale of frankens with gen papers & the below is a direct quote from the rules.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY WE WILL NO LONGER ALLOW SALES OF GENUINE BOXES AND MATCHING SERIAL PAPERS WITH FRANKEN OR REPLICA WATCHES TO PREVENT THE LIKELIHOOD OF REPLICA WATCHES BEING SOLD AS GENUINE ON OTHER PLATFORMS

We are a community, we look out for each other.